maximizing the TD-8 or "Shack adapter 2"

[herc]

[herc]

Sorry guys upon much thinking, I decided to change the topic title.

Thanks,
Phil

[drmoze]

Herc,

Hate to break the news to you, but this will not work. If you paid attention to the numerous archived posts here on the same topic (maximizing inputs), you would realize that the Roland 'stereo' inputs (toms and cymbals) will NOT accept 2 piezo inputs. They are designed to recognize a single piezo and an accompanyng fsr (force sensitive resistor). Only Aux 11/12 will accept 2 piezos (and it's perfect for the dual-trigger Yamaha bar). The other stereo inputs will give 2 inputs only with PD7/9 stereo pads or the equivalent (like a Yamaha PCYs80 cymbal pad).

Back to the drawing board....

[herc]

Yeah but I did it. One stereo cable running from an input split to 2 separate piezos making 2 separate sounds. One piezo runs off the main trigger and one piezo runs off the rim of that trigger for 2 separate sounds. The trigger parameters will have to be the same as you cannot change those independent of the head and rim. It is so hard for me to explain this but it really does work. The whole model so far is based around making the triggers. It is not daisy chaining the cables from one trigger to the other. It is splitting the cable. I can try taking a picture and putting on the web. Would that help?
Phil



[This message has been edited by herc (edited January 22, 2001).]

[davatar]

Which input are you using? What pads/pad type/pad settings are you using? You are sure your Y adapters is wired in with correct polarity? I've tried almost every combination of pad settings and I've had 0 luck. Only thing I can think of is maybe reverse polarity on the FSR input might work.

[herc]

Davatar,
***Which input are you using?***
This will work on 4,5,6,8,9,10.

***What pads/pad type/pad settings are you using?***
As far as I can see, it will work on all types to some varying degree. But works well on PD7 and PD9. Other Pad settings dont seem to matter but here they are:
type: pd-9
sens: 12
threshold: 0
curve linear
scan time .9
retrig 10
masktime 20
crosstalk off

***You are sure your Y adapters is wired in with correct polarity?***
How do you post a picture here? It will show what I am doing.
Please remember that it is in the bare wire stage for now.

***I've tried almost every combination of pad settings and I've had 0 luck. Only thing I can think of is maybe reverse polarity on the FSR input might work**
This is where my technical knowledge slides off. In my wiring, my stereo cable has 3 wires, white red and black. I use white and red for the hots and black for ground. I use red for the hot and black for the ground on the piezo. The piezo is a "Piezo Transducer 9ma, requires driver circuit, up to 30Vp-p" (from the box)

Hope this helps,
Phil

[herc]

Hey!!
Is there a way to post a picture here so you can see what I have done? I know though that I didnt use an insert cable. I actually used a stereo adapter cable for extending length. I think it was orginally a headphone cable extender, male on one end and female on the other. I just lopped off the female part and stripped the wires back. Personally I think that it may have something to do with the grounding. I dont know. All that I know is that it definitely works. I have tested it and tested it. Each trigger can be hit individually and will trigger separate sounds. The picture I took of it should help you to understand what I did.

Thanks for your testing and input,
Phil

[This message has been edited by herc (edited January 22, 2001).]

[davatar]

Herc: If you click on the UBB Code link below the submit and clear buttons when posting, it will show you how to add links to images, but first you need to put the image on a web site somewhere else and then do something like this .

If you have some way to test which lead is which, i.e. test if the tip segment connects to red, middle connects to white, and black connects to the bottom ring. You'd usually use a multimeter for this, although you can use anything that needs a completed circuit, like a light bulb and a battery.

Feefer: I'm thinking that if two piezo's were hooked up in the proper way, they would produce low resistance under certain conditions, (the FSR input looks for any resistance, my PCY80S-s put out 1 ohm fairly quickly when you put pressure on the rim). This might allow the Rim to be triggered. But I do know that using a Stereo to T/S Y cable won't in itself work, or at least I've gotten no results from it.

Playing with the td-8 quickly:
I stuck a bare connector into input 4, then I proceded to try and make a momentary connection between ground and tip.. trigger 4.. good. (voltage difference between the input circuit and ground simulate enough voltage to trigger with only a wire) then ground and ring. trigger 4R!!! needing a corresponding piezo signal a MYTH? hmmm..

Then I hooked up a footswitch with a Y cable to the FSR only, and 4R triggers with the switch.. BUT if I short ground and tip, then the footswitch does nothing. strange. Perhaps the footswitch induces some current in the open circuit piezo input causing that to have a signal as well.. Further exploration required. I'm going to trying wiring to piezos in reverse polarity trying to induce an artificialy low resistance at the FSR inputs, and with some spill-over into the piezo line. This is what I believe herc has accomplished.

Either way, I bet I can build a circuit to fool the td-8 into thinking there is a stereo/FSR pad connected, when infact there are two seperate pads.

[davatar]

err.. I guess you can't quote ubb code? heh..

[herc]

Davatar,
I will post a picture tomorrow.
or I could email it to you. Either way. I want someone to see.

Did a continuity test and from the stereo cable, red is tip and ring is white, sleeve is black.

From your description of whats goin on.....
I just got lucky.
Thanks,
Phil



[This message has been edited by herc (edited January 22, 2001).]

[BtnkBndt]

Heres Phils setup:



I'm going to try to give it a shot tommorrow on my td10, remmember he's talking td8. I sware this is what a two female mono to single male stereo spliter is doing, who knows? Lets find out.

[RonBon]

This sounds an awful lot like what I am trying to do with my TD-5. I'm out of state and haven't had a chance to try the two mono/one stereo solution you mentioned so I'll watch here intently.

If we could use a Y cable of some configuration and be able to trigger a piezo/fsr input with two piezo pads that would be wonderful!

At least I think that's what I understand to be going on here. Correct me if I'm wrong.

------------------
RonBon

[RonBon]

Not a problem for me, I'm looking to split the Crash input of my TD-5 to get an additional Cymbal. Doesn't really matter that they're the same sound. I really want it more for the pratice of hitting multiple cymbals. That will better simulate my acoustic set.

------------------
RonBon

[herc]

Chris and all,
A couple of things. First I have noticed that the reliability of striking the RIM peizo is totally dependent upon which trigger type you choose. I have found the best luck with PD7 or 9 and it is very reliable here. Some of the other types would do exactly what you said: produce almost a velocity change or produce no sound at all even with the firmest strikes. But the PD-7 or PD-9 performed well. I did not get any velocity changes or missed hits (well if it did I could not hear it). I was using a pencil and striking the piezo with the eraser part. I will admit, like you said, that this is benchtop testing and not real world yet.

Second if this trick has been posted somewhere else, it was not my intention at all to try and say I came up with this and I will admit that I didnt completely search the forums to see if it had been posted. I apologize that I called it Shack Adapter 2. My intention was more of a novelty than anything. With that out of the way.....

I appreciate all you guy's help and input. I know there are some people like Davatar and BtnkBndt that are going to more extensive circuit testing (things that are over my head) to see if this is a fluke or something real. If it is real, than it could be something that everyone can benefit from.

Enough rambling for now.

Cya,
Phil




[This message has been edited by herc (edited January 23, 2001).]

[fjmar99]

I've been searching and reading the posts on this board before I went and bought the Roland TD-10 because I'm wanting to add extra pads for a custom kit. Before I read that simply using a mono-stereo y-cable would be enough to trigger two pads with different sounds (so I can add extra cymbals). Has anyone got this y-cable method to work? Or am I going to have to use the previous mentioned procedure in order to get this work?

Thanx
FJMAR99