HH Decay subject (again)

[Sky10]

I searched the posts and couln't come up with my answer. If it was addressed previous, sorry.

Is there a way to adjust the decay of the open HH sound without effecting the closed. I would like a little longer sustain when it is open but when it is closed, maintain the tight chick sound. One seems to effect the other. I'm sure it's a simple fix that I am overlooking. Oh ya, it's on a TD-10 with TDW-1 expansion.
Thanks you,
Kyle

[Boingo]

If you can do this with all hat sounds, I'd like to know how. My experience says you can't do this. What I have found is that not all hats react the same. Some do better than others. I found the "pop" hat can have a decay of -6 or -8 without really choking the closed sound. It keeps it tight but has much sustain when playing open. Other settings seem to help the overall effect (like ambience, compression, etc).

Lately, I've been working on tweaking other hat sounds so I'm curious... Are you playing this fairly dry, applying TD-10X effects, outboard effects, or what? And what particular hat sounds are your preferred sounds?

[dr. kildrum]

O.K. I have not understood this for a long time, so have remained silent. Am I to understand that it is unusual to get a range of decay times of the hats rattling together depending on how far the pedal is depressed. If mine is all the way up, they rattle for whatever the longest is set to, as I depress the pedal the action is as expected, hitting the cymbal results in shorter and shorter decay times and a sound as if the cymbals are being moved closer together (transitions to a second type of sound really). At the absolute bottom is yet a different distinct chick sound. When I first got the kit, the open sound was at the top, and the chick happened with the pedal fully depressed (just about), but most of the transition sounds happened very quickly in a very short throw toward the bottom of the travel of the pedal. I adjusted the throw on the pedal itself and the settings in the module some (don't ask what I don't remember its been so long) and it reacts pretty much like an acoustic hat with a full range of sounds/decays depending on where the pedal is. What I think I've heard several times now, is that others have an open sound and a chick and that's it? Somebody please clear it up for me. I definitely can put the pedal to different positions and hit the pad and get the expected result. What's the deal?

[Boingo]

Maybe I misunderstood what Kyle was asking. I'm not addressing the decay of the hats "rattle" as you let up on the pedal. I thought most folks agreed the actual window where the hats are affected is rather short and sensitive. It takes some work to get used to it. Many have given up because they probably haven't made necessary adjustments and/or the window is still too tight to master it consistently.

I was referring to adjusting the decay time to reduce the rattle sound. Often when you do this, the effect on hitting the hats in the closed position is a rather choked sound. Sort of like machine gunning when you have a fast tempo going.

Other times when you get that ideal tight sound when they are closed, depending on the hat you select, the open rattle sound is too short. I think Kyle is asking if there is a way to adjust one without affecting the other, i.e. lots of rattle but a nice tight closed sound. I don't believe there is a standard method or formula, but some hat choices do better than others. I have been using the Pop hat for a long time. I found that I could use a decay of up to -8 to tighten the sound of a closed hat without making the sound cut off abruptly and it still has a lot of the rattle (perhaps a little too much) when open.

I haven't had as much luck with many others and don't use them because I can't achieve the open/closed combination I want.

I have found that tweaking the compression and adding some ambience/effects combinations has helped some on the closed sound. I recently started using Ballad and Swing hats but am not totally satisfied with the open/closed combination yet. A lot of it is all a matter of what you are looking for, so I'm sure some are content with the out of the box sounds at 0 pitch and decay.

[dr. kildrum]

Thanks, Boingo. I get it now. Just thought I was crazy. Understand what was being said now. Yes, the way the pedal effects the cymbals can be improved, but the overall decay varies from patch to patch and is much more difficult to effect as you point out. Got it. Thanks.

[Sky10]

Thats exactly right Boingo. I am getting the linearity of sound change when opening and closing the pedal(give or take) but changing the decay with the pedal pressed also effects the sustain when the pedal is released. When I set the decay low enough for a tight sound when closed,the sustain when open is much to fastI will try and use the "pop" sound to see if I can get the desired effect. You wouldn't have the number handy for the POP hat handy would you? I have a TDW installed and the result is me having to get off my lazy ass and go through each one of them. There are alot.
Thanks much,
Kyle

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The Crib

[This message has been edited by Sky10 (edited November 11, 2001).]

[Boingo]

Pop is 320.

I usually lower the pitch to about -8 and set decay at -8 to -12 range. On some kits I set the rim as the 15" hats, #322 (with the pad set at #320). When you match the pitch of the 15" rim to the pop sound, they sound very similar. The advantage is that you can get two different sustains on the open sound since the 15" hats decay much quicker. I don't know if this hat will be to your liking but I have received several compliments (from drummers no less!).

Recently I started looking for some variety but have had the same situation as you have. I just haven't had much time to explore lately. My employer is trying to see if he can disprove "hard work never killed anyone". We've been busy with some Osama related stuff lately. We do a lot of DOD work. Oh well, it beats being laid off.

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Ummm, I was just listening to "yep, another Weckl" and it sounds like the pop hat. If it is, try some decay. (It sounds darn good to me.) Are you using a mesh drum for the hi-hat?

[This message has been edited by Boingo (edited November 11, 2001).]

[Alexander]

Boingy, you genius of a <u>Roket Scientest</u>, u! Hey. I wonder if using the Roland V-Hhats (CY12 or wtf they's be called) makes for a more pronounced open HHat?! I find my PD7 has to be hit with a rim shot, just right, in order to trigger a full open HH sound (ala Heavy Metal Drumming/Dyno Beat Z Zildjians).

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Thanx!
-Alex & V's: http://photos.yahoo.com/flexapr

[Sky10]

Thanks for the kind words Boingo.
The HH is a PD-9 that Roland gave me. I was using the Hart HH pad but it was giving me wrist problems. (I think it's just old age)
The PD-9 was a little more spongy. Not to mention, alot quieter. The sound I have been using is the 15" off the expansion cardcard.

Time to look into some other options. Thanks much for your input.

Now if I can find some real musicians to play with, I can do somthing original.
Kyle

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The Crib
The Gig

[Boingo]

Alex: I wouldn't know about the V hi-hats. I'm just a po boy using a PD-7. I don't have any trouble with hitting the rim consistently. It took a while to settle on the exact height, position and angle to get there.

Sky: Reference to the mesh pad was from looking at one of your sites pic's. Yea, after I listened to what you had on your Weckle tune, I thought you might be looking for something else. Just for curiosity, is there a hat sound that you favor even though you don't get the rim you like?

[Sky10]

Naa, not really. Just a tight click when closed and a little more sustain on the open. Although, it was allot easier shopping hats in the acoustic days. Have yet to find ones that I really like.

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The Crib
The Gig