Need suggestions for rack mixer, effects, etc.

[crazystix]

I want spruce up the sound of my TD-8. I've read many posts using the search engine on different outboard things that can be added to give the TD-8 a boost. However, this is still a whole new world to me (just switched from acoustics to electrics after 19 years on acoustics), and it's still all a bit overwhelming and confusing.

From what I can tell from others' posts, I think the things I need most would be: 1) a mixer 2) an effects unit & 3) a sonic maximizer.

1) For a mixer, I had in mind the Rolls RM203x, or the Rolls RM65 MixMax 6x4

2) For an effects unit, I had in mind the Lexicon MPX550 (or 500?) or the Digitech Studio Quad 4 Multi-Effects Processor

3) For the sonic maximizer, I was thinking maybe the BBE 862.

I'm currently using all 4 outputs of my TD-8, running them through direct boxes to the board, and using the simple effects that are on my Carvin 24 channel board.

I really don't fully understand how all this comes together yet, I just want to make sure I get the right equipment and do it right the first time. Will the items above give me the extra umph that I'm looking for, or would you recommend somthing different? Is there anything else that I would need or should consider getting? Is there anything above that I just don't need, or could get by with something less? Also, how does all of this stuff come together. What order are they connected, etc?

Your help is greatly appreciated. I've learned a lot about my drums since I got them recently, but still have a long way to go.

Oh, I plan on getting the TD-10 and the Hart 6.4 later this year, so I want to make sure whatever I get is adequate to cover the extra capabilities of the TD-10. I would like to order this stuff this week along with a nice rack to put it all in so I'll have it for my next show. Thanks for your input!!!

Chris

[crazystix]

Anyone???

[Schuh Man]

Don't want to leave you out in the cold on your request.

1. Mixer Question: What do you intend to use the mixer for-your personal on-stage monitoring or in-between your TD-10/8 and FOH mixer?

2. Re: Effects units. Not sure what your price point is here. Lexicon's are great in my experience. May also want to consider the TC M-One if you want a unit in a unit in the same "league" as the MPX500. I demo'd the TC and the Lexicon MPX500 but I found the TC had a better price point (I got mine for $349). Not sure what any of the stuff is costing today however. My TC is capable of dual mono effects-I use one effect for snare and another for kick/toms.

3. Re: the BBE. I think they all do basically the same thing. May also want to consider the 482. Same as 882 (and 862) except have unbalanced in's and out's. I've seen them very cheap lately. I have the 482 and, while I'm not sure what it actually does, it's a pretty quick and easy way that I add "umpgh" and punch to my overall sound.

Hope this helps.

[crazystix]

Originally posted by c. jude
Be more specific about what you want to do and about questions you have and maybe you will get more feedback.

Thanks C. Jude and Schuh Man for responding. The problem is that I'm having trouble asking the specific questions that I want to because I really don't understand much of how all of this works or comes together yet. I'm still very green when it comes to electronic musical equipment as I just recently switched from A's to E's. I'll try and be a little bit more specific as to what I'm trying to accomplish.

First, for the effects unit, I want to get an effects processor because I am not happy with the on-board effects of the TD-8 or with the very limited effects included on my Carvin board (which I have to share). So the answer to that is that I want more and better quality effects. I mentioned the Lexicon 550 above. I found a really good close-out price on the Lexicon 200 that is much cheaper than the 550. Would this still give me a lot better effects than I'm used to with the TD-8 or the mixer?

For the BBE sonic maximizer. From what I have read this is a great thing to get for the Edrum sound. From what I understand, it really brings out the highs and lows, kind of like the LOUD switch on a home stereo. I have the Roland TDA-700 amplifier, and it has 2 "Shape" switches for low end and high end boost, but this does not pass through the line out on the amp. The difference in sound on the TDA-700 is significant when using the Shape switches, so I'm hoping that the BBE will accomplish the same sort of thing and will give my drums that same sort of effect through the PA??? I mentioned wanting to get the BBE 882, but I found a really great price on the 482. Is the biggest difference that the inputs/outputs are unbalanced on the 482? I have a direct box that acts as 4 direct boxes in one, so wouldn't this be okay to convert the outs on the 482 to balanced signals?

For the submixer, I would use this between the TD-8 and the FOH mixer. This is the part that I really don't have a hold of why I may want it or need it. I thought that I needed it to mix down the outputs on the TD-8 to one signal. Wouldn't I need to do this before running through the Lexicon and the BBE because they only have 2 inputs on them? The TD-8 has 4 outs and I'm running all 4 of them with bass to one, snare to one, toms to one, and cymbals to the 4th one. Wouldn't I have to submix these outputs before hooking into the BBE and effects units?

Sorry if I sound confused. It's because I am confused. I know I can learn how to operate this equipment once I get it, I just want to make sure I purchase the correct equipment to start with.

Thanks for your time and I really appreciate your help.

Chris

[Boingo]

Effects: yes, either should be better than the TD-X.

BBE: 482 going through direct box should work fine. Not sure what you're expecting from the BBE. Last time I was on their site, they had a demo. It helps understand it. Not everyone is happy with the effect it has on all sounds. It messes with cymbal sustain/decay and some other sounds as well. Probabaly won't be noticable live. Snare, Tom's and Kick are definitely cleaner, tighter, punchier, etc.

Note: Your unbalanced cords should be kept short and be of good quality. The majority of your cord length to the FOH should be balanced. Long unbalanced cords pick up noise.

Submix: Ideally, you would want to use 2 BBE's and 2 effects units to supply the FOH (more control for volume and any other processing they may be doing). If your intention is not to give them separate direct outs and for you to control your sound, the submix is necessary and you would feed a stereo mix (or mono) to the FOH.

[crazystix]

Originally posted by Boingo
Effects: yes, either should be better than the TD-X.

BBE: 482 going through direct box should work fine. Not sure what you're expecting from the BBE. Last time I was on their site, they had a demo. It helps understand it. Not everyone is happy with the effect it has on all sounds. It messes with cymbal sustain/decay and some other sounds as well. Probabaly won't be noticable live. Snare, Tom's and Kick are definitely cleaner, tighter, punchier, etc.

Note: Your unbalanced cords should be kept short and be of good quality. The majority of your cord length to the FOH should be balanced. Long unbalanced cords pick up noise.

Submix: Ideally, you would want to use 2 BBE's and 2 effects units to supply the FOH (more control for volume and any other processing they may be doing). If your intention is not to give them separate direct outs and for you to control your sound, the submix is necessary and you would feed a stereo mix (or mono) to the FOH.

Thanks Boingo!

I run 6' unbalanced cords to the direct boxes from the TD-8. From there I run XLR's to the snake.

Okay, I follow what you're saying on the submix issue now. It might be better to get 2 BBE 482's and 2 Lexicon MPX200's to run all four TD-8 out through, right? This way I can eliminate the need for the submixer, right? I can get 2 BBE's and 2 effects units for right at $700 total, which is right in the price range that I want to spend total (not more than $900 with a rack to mount all of this in).

This way I can leave the mixing to our sound guy, but still be able to boost the high and low end and add better effects, correct?

How does this stuff integrate? Would I run the 4 outs from the TD-8 to the inputs on the 2 effects units, then run the out from the effects units to the 2 BBE's, then run the outs from the BBE's to the direct boxes?

Thanks again!

[crazystix]

Okay,

I just ordered the stuff. Here's what I got:

- 1 BBE 482 sonic maximizer ($100)
- 1 BBE 362 sonic maximizer ($100)
- 1 Lexicon MPX-200 ($209)
- 1 Lexicon MPX-110 ($169)

I bought it all from www.riksmusic.com. I wanted to get 2 of the BBE 482's and 2 of the Lexicon MPX-200's, but they were being closed out and they only had one of each, so I had to get the next model down for the other ones. He told me the only difference between the BBE 482 and 362 is that the 482 has RCA jacks in addition to the 1/4" ones.

Thanks for your help to those who responded. I'll let everyone know how it works out once I receive it all.

UPDATE:
I canceled the order for the BBE 362 because I found another 482 for $99 at Manny's Music on the web. So now I will be able to have independent control over both channels on both BBE's. Can't wait to use all my new toys live!!!

[Schuh Man]

Great buys!! Good luck with all of it.

Another thought. The two effects units are potentially "overkill" for your drums. In my experience, I've found that 2 effects for drums to be "plenty". I typically use dual effect combo's pre-programmed into my TC M-One. Since both of your lexicon units are dual channel (2 separate effects can be run at the same time), you could use 1 of the lexicons and have two different drum effects (ex. plate reverb and ambience, whatever) and use the other lexicon as an effects unit for the overall mix (dual channel as well-ex. reverb and delay).

Don't know if your main board has enough aux sends to do this however. Each independent effect will require a separate aux send to get 4 independent effects. If you had 4 open aux sends, you could possibly have 4 different effects from the two Lexicons patched in at once at the main board.

Also, regarding the BBE's, you may want to consider using these as insert effects specifically on the drum channels, rather than running them "in-line" from your TD. Not sure if you have a soundman, but this would allow the soundman (soundperson?) to "dial in" the BBEs from front of house.

Also, if you've got more $$ to blow on beefing up your sound, I would also suggest a compressor (or 2-one for kick and one for snare). I've got 2 RNC compressors ($179 each) and these things rock. MUCH better than the TD effects.

[crazystix]

Originally posted by Schuh Man
Also, regarding the BBE's, you may want to consider using these as insert effects specifically on the drum channels, rather than running them "in-line" from your TD. Not sure if you have a soundman, but this would allow the soundman (soundperson?) to "dial in" the BBEs from front of house.

Also, if you've got more $$ to blow on beefing up your sound, I would also suggest a compressor (or 2-one for kick and one for snare). I've got 2 RNC compressors ($179 each) and these things rock. MUCH better than the TD effects.

Thanks,

I'll definitely consider running the BBE's as insert effects on the board. We'll experiment with that.

The Lexicon's have built-in digital compressors. Is that not enough, or should I still consider getting a separate compressor? Can you explain what a compressor does in laymans terms? I read some on it and still don't quite get it.

Thanks for your help.

Chris

[Schuh Man]

Compression, at least in my situation, gives my kick drum "punch" and my snare "crack". Not very scientific, but that's my "ears" observation of what the compressor does.

I know others have explained it in a much better way. Probably could do a search here and get some good information on compression. Also could try other forums for ideas re: compression (prorec.com and audioforums.com are two that I often go to).

If the Lexicon's have compression, that should work fine. Don't know much about the quality of the compressors (although I bet they're at least OK). In a dual channel setup, you could use compression as one effect (I tend to have my snare and kick set up with similar compression settings) and some type of reverb as the other effect. Not sure as I am thinking on this about how you would patch all this in (I've got my compression as a channel insert effect). I'll continue to ponder that.

Trying to enlighten - hoping not to confuse.

Good Luck