More inputs for TD-10 (Holy Grail Part 3)

[AkristaK]

Ya your damn right I'm rehashing this!!(haha)I know this topic has been discussed in detail before but I never got the of 2 pads in one input trick to work(two seperate sounds from 2 pads in 1 input). I have tried every shack adapter known to man, the only response I got is two pads to produce the same sound from one input. Not what I was going for.(Hey Mr. Music Retailer where's the service now???)

Then I started thinking: Doesn't the TD-10 essentially break down the head/rim seperation into Right/left?(I guess head=right and Rim=left or visa/versa) So then I found one of my many Radio Shack devices(1/4 in. plug into 2 RCA plugs, R & L) So I am guessing the right(red) RCA plug is either the head or Rim sound, and the left(white) RCA is the opposite. So then I went to Radio Shack and got 2 RCA female to mono 1/4 cables to plug into pads. I'm at work so I have not tried this theory out, but I will let you know. If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.

My end goal: to have 4 pintech TC cymbals(single trigger cymbals) with 4 seperate sounds coming out of AUX 1 & 2 inputs.(or any two inputs for that matter)

Who know's maybe this will never work, but I will die trying!!!

[rus]

Originally posted by AkristaK:
Who know's maybe this will never work, but I will die trying!!!

Keep it up, as I am interested in how this might be used to trigger the rim sound of kick drums with another trigger into the same input.

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[This message has been edited by rus (edited February 22, 2001).]

[AkristaK]

Feefer and Co.

What I was able to do was trigger two sperate TC cymbals from one TD-10 input, problem being both cymbals produced the same sound. All I used for that was a 1/4 in. male to 2 1/4 in. female( or a "Y" adapter)

I was reading the Shack Adapter 2 post and BTNKBNDT posted a picture of a stereo cable split with each side (L & R) being split into two seperate triggers. His commentary said one trigger would sound the head and the other would sound the rim. (hence, the 1 input 2 seperate sound trick works)

So following that logic, why wouldn't my RCA trick work in the same fasion? Only I don't have to splice wires together like in the picture.

Sen-se I am in need of more wisdom, I will try said experiment tonight and report my findings tomorrow.

I'm all about pushing the boundaries!!

[Lee E. Nelson]

This past week, our local drum shop had a clinic with a guy direct from Roland demonstrating the V-Pros. Anyway, I asked him if the dual inputs can be split and his answer was "NO". He indicated that only the PD-7s and PD-9s will work in the dual-triggered inputs - a piezo and FSR trigger set-up.

For the record, I have personally tried the "Shack Adapter" trick and was not happy with MY overall results! I used two PD-100's and played with the trigger bank settings for quite awhile. Both heads triggered the same sound (head) when hit lightly, and both would give the second sound (or rim) when hit harder - closer to the center of the pad.

Good Luck!

[RonBon]

Originally posted by feefer:

You need a differential in VOLTAGE SIGNAL STRENGTH for the module to figure out which pad you're hitting.

It should seem intuitive that two identical PD-100's give off identical voltage signals: there is NO WAY for the module to discriminate which one you're triggering. That's why 'y' cabling won't work with (2) identical PD-100's!

[This message has been edited by feefer (edited February 22, 2001).]

Why not boost the voltage in-line somehow?

What do you think BtnkBndt? You seem to be pretty knowledgeable in that area.


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RonBon

[BtnkBndt]

I've washed my hands on this one . Really, feefs the man on this. I've never gotten past the velocity issue. I've been very successful with the adapter giving a second sound on a harder hit on a single pad. Works as advertised. I dropped the two pad issue when I midied two modules together and no longer had to deal with the more inputs issue.

As for more voltage, heres is how the module actually works (by the book). The head is triggered by a single piezo. The rim is triggered when an FSR(or switch) and piezo are struck simultaeniously. Piezo wired sleeve to tip and FSR wired ring to tip. I have not sat down and tried to figure out what the voltage is the the module sends via the rim side? I've gotten 100% success using a membrane switch and a Pintech Nimrod, but not with a pad.

Also, feefer. Have you figured out if its the voltage created by the piezo that triggers the rim sound in your case? Or is the piezo actually acting as a switch? I did try the Grail part deu to try and see what was up, it just confused me more . I'm gonna ask one more tiome . How good have you gotten on the reliability of the rim sound being triggered? Maybe you need to package up an adapter and an instruction sheet and sell these things outright to justify trying to explain this stuff .

[boismenu]

Originally posted by feefer:
...using just a single pad and THE Shack adapter (part # 274-1520 or 274-1520C)?
Chris

For the people without Radio Shack around (90% of the world), could we have a diagram?
Thanks, Pierre.

[AkristaK]

Damnit Feefer you were right!! My theory was wrong the input has nothing to do with simple R & L connections.(but if it did...)

So let's all get this straight. I have a "Y" adapter which is for argument sake A male stereo 1/4 plug to 2 female 1/4 stereo plugs. OK so one down.

And the shack is what? (a mono male 1/4 plug to a mono 1/4 female.) How is that going to help me get to the 2 pad one input nirvana?

We definitly need a diagram of some sort. So Feefer you have gotten this to work? So one could have a drum set the size of Marc's, with only one TD-10? I will make this work if it kills me, I feel like I'm almost there but I'm just missing one step. And finally what about the TD-10? what does it need to be told in order for this to work, just simply change the pad type to 10B?

There's just too many questions, my brain hurts!

[Marc.]

Originally posted by feefer:
... If you re-read that thread, you'll see I was suggesting using a KD-80 and a PD-80 ...

That's why 'y' cabling won't work with (2) identical PD-100's!

Make sense?

Ah, yes, NOW it does.

Keyword "suggesting" is probably what threw everyone (at least me) off. Seems I have more time to "read" than actually tinker. But with my engineering background and your excellent technical oratory, I am usually able to comprehend your lab work.

Perhaps most ( at least I would) just bypassed that word. It seems natural that it would be the toms/cymbals one would want to "double-up" on and many may not mix the pads, which I initially couldn't, at that initial post, understand why. NOW, it seems "logical" from a signal strength perspective. I'm surprised that you did not make this a requirement, as opposed to a suggestion. I think you'll have a lot of happy campers now.
Good work, Doc.

Mix On,

[rus]

Originally posted by feefer:
PS Rus, I've been doing exactly that for quite some time now.

AkristaK and Rus: I'll guide you through it, step by step, right here, OK? Anyone who wants to join is invited to join in: go buy a $1.99 adapter. I'll wait.....

I've has the adapters since the last go around, and I've used them to trigger percussive sounds via softer hits on my tom pads... I also mentioned that the overall volume of the primary sound (toms) was lowered by using the adapter (i suspect it's just a matter of booting the volume (or sensitivity), but I never went further than that.

Then there was the 2 kd-7s inline fiasco... I never understood how that worked, it seemed from your postings that what you were doing was different than what I wanted to do... HOWEVER! I'll go back and read the old posts while I'm waiting for the new lesson.

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[This message has been edited by rus (edited February 23, 2001).]

[cproctor]

Hi AkristaK,

I was kinda' curious about the adapter after reading your response, so I checked it out on the Shack website. Here's the URL:
http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...Fid=274%2D1520

It says "Use to combine left and right-channel signals from a stereo headphone jack." Maybe that's what makes it work. Good luck! Now I've gotta' try it!!

Chris

Originally posted by AkristaK:
Damnit Feefer you were right!! My theory was wrong the input has nothing to do with simple R & L connections.(but if it did...)

So let's all get this straight. I have a "Y" adapter which is for argument sake A male stereo 1/4 plug to 2 female 1/4 stereo plugs. OK so one down.

And the shack is what? (a mono male 1/4 plug to a mono 1/4 female.) How is that going to help me get to the 2 pad one input nirvana?

We definitly need a diagram of some sort. So Feefer you have gotten this to work? So one could have a drum set the size of Marc's, with only one TD-10? I will make this work if it kills me, I feel like I'm almost there but I'm just missing one step. And finally what about the TD-10? what does it need to be told in order for this to work, just simply change the pad type to 10B?

There's just too many questions, my brain hurts!

[BtnkBndt]

The adapter sends the head (tip) signal to both the head (tip) and rim (ring). Basically it extends the tip of the plug to hit both the head and rim of the input jack. On your normal mono plug the sleeve (ground) is in contact with the ring of the input jack. The adapter puts the tip in contact with both the tip and ring of the input jack. Are you good and confused now?

I tried making somewhat of a diagram and the d@#* post removed all my spaces?

[AkristaK]

OK, so we are almost there right?

according to btnkbndt it sounds as though all we will be doing by this combining the head and rim sound and not acctually seperating the two sounds into two pads?

Question for Feef: how many pads do you currently have hooked up to your TD-10? Better yet, how many could have hooked up?
After reading the previous posts it seamns as though the 2 AUX inputs work best for this trick.

Cproctor: let us know if you can get it work as I will be trying this all-week end. Imagine if you will 4 single triggered cymbals, 4 totally different sounds, 2 inputs used!!

I can see Nirvana through the clouds, ahh wings melting, falling to earth.....

[BtnkBndt]

No it doesnt layer the sounds. You get two distinctly seperate sounds. This is where confusion reigns. When a signal is sent to ONLY the head input you get ONLY the head sound. When a signal is sent to head and rim at THE SAME TIME you get the rim sound. If a signal is sent to ONLY the rim input you get nothing.

I'll shut up and let feefer explain.

[cproctor]

Don't give up, AkristaK! Keep flappin'!! ha ha. I will let you know if I get it to work. It would be really worth it to get additional pads without buying another TD10!! Let's see...$5 or $1,100.....tough decision!

Chris

Cproctor: let us know if you can get it work as I will be trying this all-week end. Imagine if you will 4 single triggered cymbals, 4 totally different sounds, 2 inputs used!!