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False-triggering exorcism?

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  • False-triggering exorcism?

    So here I am at my local drum store blithely jamming away on a V-Session kit when a strange realization hits me---I haven't heard a single bit of crosstalk or false triggering the whole time I've been playing! Thinking this is surely too good to be true, I start bearing down on the kit in the hopes that it will start acting a little bit more like mine (floor tom triggering ride, etc.--you know the story). Well, no such luck! Have I stumbled across some kind of magic set of V-drums? Did Max von Sydow pop in and give them a false-triggering exorcism?

    On the serious side, this got me to thinking about some of the less-obvious variables involved in all this. I mean, with all due respect, none of the guys down there are exactly V-drum tweak monsters, so I felt pretty certain I was playing an "out-of-the-box" kit as far as the settings were concerned. So, fellow V-drummers, if you'll be so kind, please share your thoughts on these points and how they might contribute (or not) to false triggering:

    1. Two modules in use--both mounted to the drum rack. One used solely for cymbals, the other solely for drums. Drums and cymbals both mounted together on the same rack.

    2. New Roland clamps versus Gibraltar clamps.

    3. New Roland rack pipe (the ribbed red type) versus Gibraltar rack pipe.

    4. Roland rubber pads versus Roland mesh pads.

    5. Pad-to-L-rod-to-clamp versus pad-to-tom holder-to-clamp.

    Your feedback, as always, is appreciated.........

    Mick
    TD-30 / SPD-SX /Alesis Strike Multipad

  • #2
    Hi Chris:

    I'm considering using the expanding foam on the V-Pro rack at our Church. Does that have a special applicator? I'm concerned with getting it in deep enough to fill the center of the tubes.

    I used some pipe insulating foam I got from a hardware store on my home kit. It was a tight fit and was rather difficult getting it to fill the tubes, especially the curved tubes. I'm just looking for the most effective method without breaking knuckles.
    Kit Pic 1 Kit Pic 2 Kit Pic 3... And FOR SALE I have: 3 PD-9's, MDS-10 purple rack w/cables/pad and cym mounts. See classified posts for details or PM me.

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    • #3
      Do you mean to say a pad input of one module into a pad input of another module? You can't mean the main output of one module to an input of another. I'm not being a smart ass, I really am curious, I hadn't even thought of doing that. It sounds like a good idea. I had thought of using a Y-cord to plug one pad on the rack into both modules, but your way seems ore elegant to me.
      Drumkat Turbo 4.5, Emulator X3, Superior 2.1, Roland Fantom XR, DTXtreme III, SPD-20 etc.......

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      • #4
        Mick Wade -great observation!

        Whenever the subject of crosstalk comes up, I sit silently and read in abject befuddlement - but no more! Nay, this morn I sally forth...

        I have never had a problem with crosstalk on my kit anywhere I have played it, or with any Roland kit I have tried in a store. I can definitely see where a Gibralter rack might contribute to a problem, and I can see where a full metal clamp might contribute, but I cannot believe the problem is hardware based. Otherwise, all kits would have significant problems.

        I'll go out on a limb here and say that it seems most problems are with folks who tweak a lot, or use imaginative set-ups, or don't have exclusive use of their kits.

        I think the answer lies elsewhere.

        The first question which needs to be asked, IMO, is what pads are usually involved - is there a pattern? Is the typical problem a tom causing a cymbal to trigger, or vice versa? Is it cymbal to cymbal, tom to tom, or a combination?

        Are the V-session cymbals especially devoid of this problem? One would predict that they might be, because of the isolation provided by the hanging assembly.

        To my thinking, there are three major factors which must be involved with crosstalk problems: module settings, lack of vibration damping, and physical sensitivity of sensors.

        Module - what are the kit initialization settings for sensitivity, crosstalk, velocity curve ( best to use one with low output for low input?), scan time, etc? *God forbid the kits are set for brushes!

        Damping - factors may include overtightening of clamps. I never tighten the rack clamps which allow the rack sides to swing. I like the adjustibility, but it also may increase the damping factor.

        I don't truly snug up any rack clamps unless there is a movement problem, and the same goes for drum and cymbal pads. Of course, with my V-Pro and its old style clamps, this is not surprising!

        Physical sensitivity - this is a real shot in the dark, but the mesh pads are the only ones where the sensors are not sealed away from us. Triggering involves the head itself and the cones which transmit vibrations to the sensors. Is it possible that adjustments we make to these elements are involved in the generation of problems? Are we using overworn cones, or mis-installing them?

        Kits in stores generally have heads which are fairly loose. Are we overtightening our heads?

        If I had to predict, I would bet that most but not all problems involve setting tweaks and overtightened clamps, not the rack and associated hardware.
        Last edited by gingerbaker; 12-10-02, 10:51 AM.
        Immensely powerful yet with a liquid cat-quick elegance

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        • #5
          I was always told that you could damage a pad input by plugging anything but a pad into it. How does the ohm rating differ from a pad to a main output which is amplified slightly? That's the only thing I'm concerned about.
          Drumkat Turbo 4.5, Emulator X3, Superior 2.1, Roland Fantom XR, DTXtreme III, SPD-20 etc.......

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          • #6
            re false triggering

            I have had my session kit for about 12 months now and it has just started to give slight false triggers.
            I pretty much play my kit like a real set of A's, I do pound on it.
            I have had about 8 sessions with a live band, the rest of the time I have had it in my little studio, where I try and play everyday.
            I am wondering are the false triggers happening now because vibration has loosened the mounting of the trigger pickups inside the drums.
            Has anyone pulled an offending drum apart to check this?
            From the day I got my session kit I have tightened the rack clamps and mounts tight, it never false triggered before so I doubt if rack clamps and mounts being too tight is the cause.
            I am curious to see if the vibration from playing has losened all the screws holding the pickups though.
            I would like to nail this problem.
            Your thoughts and idea's appreciated

            cheers
            sycle1
            NOW with New Improved TD-30 Module, some V drums an other music making thingies with miscellaneous small furry animals, large hairy animals, motorcycle bits and a big muff:rolleyes:.

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            • #7
              My VCustoms crosstalk like a bunch of gabby women!

              (Oops... I bet that'll get me in trouble!)

              But they do!
              My website...
              VCustom kit,
              TD8 + Aphex Impulse,
              HDI Cymbals.
              A great site: eDrumming.com

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              • #8
                Hi sycle1

                I think you have asked a great question, and one which helps explain how wear and tear can perhaps start the problem. Since you had no problem initially, what in the system has changed ?- and your suggestion seems a good one.

                If there is a physical sensitivity - as you suggested a loosening of pickup mounts - one would expect that the more vibrations which made it all the way to the mounts themselves, the more inadvertant triggering would occur.

                Having very tight clamps and a very rigid frame definitely help transmit more vibrations to the mounts. But if the mounts are stationary, and the other parts of the physical system are up to speed, there is no crosstalk problem. So perhaps it is only when there is a loosening up of components that the other factors come into play.

                This would , it seems, explain why new kits play without crosstalk regardless of the rack rigidity, and why your kit is developing bad habits.

                So, as you say, the question is where to look and for what to keep tight?
                Immensely powerful yet with a liquid cat-quick elegance

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