Vdrums and Acoustic Cymbals

[bimmergeek]

Due to an upcoming move to New York City, I am unloading my Tama Starclassic Performer kit in order to transition to my vdrums kit.

Although I have found the TD-10 cymbals to be pretty good, I still dislike the consistent sound of the digital cymbals. I would like to use my Zildjian crashes and high hat cymbals.

The problem I have encountered is getting the acoustic cymbal volume to match the volume of the vdrums in a performance situation. This is particularly the case when I hit the crash and match it with a bass drum beat: it seems like the volume match just doesn't quite happen.

Anyone have ideas on how to manage this problem?

[Boingo]

You say "in a performance situation". Is the volume matching problem in the front of the house, behind the drums or both?

I know several people on this site use E's with cymbals and they seem to be satisfied. I sat behind a friend's kit who uses this setup. It's set up in a room separate from the band. Even under headphones, it was a really weird experience. But, I have heard the same kit out front and it sounded great.

There is a possibility I may have to go this route so I'd be interested in the responses.

[Jimmy C]

vdrums

What I usually do is mic my acoustic HH and cymbals and run them and my ddrum4 thru a mixer. Even if you don't have your own mixer, FOH could mic your HH/cymbals and send them back to you w/ the band mix to go into your aux in. Getting your own mixer would give you the most control, though. Either way, use good isolating headphones or "in-ear" ear buds for the best results.

An alternative solution is to use open-style type ear buds (as opposed to the kind that actually fit inside your ears)...I do this sometimes during rehearsals when I am too lazy to mic my cymbals. You are able to hear normal conversation and ambient noise levels in the room but are also able to crank up your kit level (up to the acoustic HH and cymbals), when needed.

[TomLandin]

No problems.....

I use 4 Zildjian crashes with my VPro, all mounted on my rack.
I have never had a problem with the mix (or with false triggering).

We regularly record our FOH sound and review our performance. The acoustics are picked up on the vocalists mikes just mine, and in live performances, people (and our sound man) say the acoustics blend in just fine. Since I also supplement my drum sound with a JBL EON G2 at my drums, in addition to the PA FOH mix, the Acymbals make a seamless sound transition from my position to the listeners ears. In fact they can't tell the differance between some of the Ecymbals and ACymbals on most songs.

I haven't recorded yet with both V and A cymbals, but I suspect one overhead condenser mike in the studio would be sufficent. I'll leave that the the studio pros we pay our big bucks too...

[Ranman]

Re: No problems.....

Originally posted by TomLandin
I haven't recorded yet with both V and A cymbals, but I suspect one overhead condenser mike in the studio would be sufficent. I'll leave that the the studio pros we pay our big bucks too...

I wonder if those studio pros will be able to isolate the cymbal sounds from the pad thumps with that overhead mic. I bet they can. They've been to school and all.

[fartnokker]

Recording A&E's...

I've found the pad thump to be a relative non-issue when recording. Matter of fact, I've even sent a discrete kick signal to my 18" Peavey (120Hz cutoff) so that I could "feel" the kick while recording, and a low-end rolloff on the overheads almost completely eliminated it.

Something to remember about pad noise: when mixed, you usually won't hear it because the signal being generated by the pad strike will be much louder than the pad noise thru the overheads. That little "tap tap tap" you hear from the pad will be completely drowned out by the BAM BAM BAM sample sound that that the module is kicking out in response.

A lot of times, people get too caught up in making each individual track as clean & isolated as possible, when the synergistic effect of the entire drum set together is what the listener will hear. When your CD is done, the listenter won't be able to solo the hi-hat track to listen for crosstalk. Keep the end result in mind.

Also, please take everything I say today with a grain of salt. It might be the Vicodin talking...

[Steveo the Devo]

So, back to the thread's original question.

I play out live with V's and acoustic cymbals (and snare). I have found that matching volume levels is no problem so long as you have decent foldback. I have a couple of nice 15" + horn wedges which sit on either side of my kit (facing up at my head). Then I just tell the sound dude to turn up whichever sound I want (I use all 8 direct outs where possible).

Obviously depends on how hard you hit those suckers too!

[boismenu]

I recently recorded a band in a small studio so I had to place the e-drums with acoustic cymbals and HH together in the same room with the two guitarrists, which were playing directly to the board (no amps).
The strange thing is that one of the guitars picked the thumbs from the pads! Weird.

Overheads are no problem, it blends with the drum sound.

Pierre.