Adding a 2nd module to a V-Pro set

[Gregg Koefer]

I have a TD-10 expanded module and V cymbals, and want more cymbal/gong/cowbell/ whatever inputs - don't we all? The HOLY GRAIL solution is limited, so I have been considering an offer from a dealer for a TD-7t (refurbished) module for $389.00., planning to plug in some extra PD-7 pads into this device to gain the added sounds. Any reason why this is not a good plan? Would a TD-5 be better for any reason? Also, anyone know where to locate a TD7t module mounting brancket, in the event it does not come with one?

Thanks, Gregg

[Jgel]

It should work just fine. I was thinking about doing the same thing. I sold my TD-7 set to get my V-Pro, but I still miss some of the sounds that were on that brain. I love that brain (
Let me know if it works well for you. I was going to use it to add a roto-tom set as well as a cow bell and a few other sounds. I love the ORCH. HIT that was on the TD-7.

[Oz DrumR]

Another option would be the use of an SPDx (or similar) to trigger additional sounds from your current brain. Okay, so you wont have mesh pads, but would you want them for cowbells, gongs etc?

I currently use the SPD-6 with 2 FS-5U footswitches to trigger 8 additional sounds: including gong, handclap, cowbell, tamborine, reverse crash, guiro, triangle etc . . . all (with exception to the cowbell) are used quite infrequently and wouldn't (in my eyes) justify an individual pad.

If you're happy with the sounds in the td10, then maybe this would be a cheaper and easier alternative?

[dr. kildrum]

Originally posted by Gregg Koefer:
I have a TD-10 expanded module and V cymbals, and want more...I have been considering...a TD-7t...to plug in some extra PD-7 pads into this device to gain the added sounds. Any reason why this is not a good plan?

I've heard that there can be crosstalk problems with having two modules controlling respective pads on the same rack. It has been suggested here that crosstalk settings on one unit may work well for that unit, but not work the same for the additional pads of the additional unit. Personally, this doesn't make much sense to me, so I would like to hear what others' experiences with two modules have been. I can imagine that two modules allows you to have enough pads that the pads are as a result naturally mounted a little closer together. I can see how this could increase the likelihood of a crosstalk issue (a little). But otherwise, I too would like to hear if there is any other problem with this, because I'm leaning heavily toward buying another unit too.

[Drooling Dog]

When adding a 2nd module like this, do they actually connect together, or is it really almost two kits with the pads mixed together?

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Drooling Dog

[dr. kildrum]

Originally posted by Drooling Dog:
When adding a 2nd module like this, do they actually connect together, or is it really almost two kits with the pads mixed together?

It could be either...or both. I'm thinking of doing a little of both. What I'd like to do is buy a TD-6 because it is an economical way to get more inputs and because it his the nice punchy sounds from the TD-8 that differ from the TD-10. The plan would be to add some pads to my kit with the additional inputs. I suppose I could always trigger pads that are plugged into each module from only that module, but if I midi them together, in theory, I could trigger any pad from either module.

In order to figure out how best to make this work, I'm hoping to first find out if crosstalk putting the two modules and so many pads on my rack will be an issue. My second question is whether midi-ing the two modules together will work without unreasonable latency or other problems. (Not as important as long as I can use two kits with pads mixed together, but would be nice.)

My guess is that there is probably no problem adding a TD-6 with some more pads into the TD-6 and having the new stuff co-exist with my kit. Honestly, I can probably make that fit the bill too, but being able to trigger sounds from the TD-10 via midi from the pads going into the TD-6 would affect the choice of what pads I would buy.

I'm hoping to get both questions answered before going to all the hassle of getting something that won't work effectively.

[Gregg Koefer]

Assuming that I do buy another module, it would be nice to hear some input regarding the various models available. One of you is targeting teh TD-6, and I presume that the TD7t offers equivalent sounds/quality/flexibility, if not more. Am I right? If known, compare the TD-5, TD-6, and TD7t, as the TD-8 and TD-10 are overkill for my application.

Thanks

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GKoefer
TD-10 Exp, V-15R

[Drooling Dog]

How/where would one mount a TD-6 to a V-Pro kit (and rack)? And is the TD-6 have the same V-Cymbal compatibility that the expanded TD-10 has?

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Drooling Dog

[This message has been edited by Drooling Dog (edited July 18, 2001).]

[szvook]

Originally posted by Gregg Koefer:
Assuming that I do buy another module, it would be nice to hear some input regarding the various models available. One of you is targeting teh TD-6, and I presume that the TD7t offers equivalent sounds/quality/flexibility, if not more. Am I right? If known, compare the TD-5, TD-6, and TD7t, as the TD-8 and TD-10 are overkill for my application.

Thanks

If the TD-6 is like the TD-8 as far as sounds and their quality (I believe some had supported the sounds and their quality from the TD-6 & 8 from experience), then the TD-7t will not sound better then the TD-6.

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szvook

[johncota]

I have four of the older PD31 triangle 4-trigger pads and a PM16 interface that I midi into the TD10. It works great, and I get 16 more triggers! Maybe look for a PM16 or the PD31s on Ebay. They are not as good on response, but they're great for having a bunch of extra sounds to access cheaply.

[Mick Wade]

As a current TD-6 owner, allow me to hopefully clear some of these points up.

I recorded a scratch 4-song demo just last night using my TD-8 for all the drum sounds and the TD-6 for all the cymbal sounds. There were no crosstalk problems, and this was with the TD-6 trigger settings right out of the box. The only thing I had to adjust was the sensitivity up on the hi-hat pad (I was using a DrumTech Flat Pad). It was essentially a "two-kit" type of setup like Dog described, and everything was mounted together on a Gibraltar rack . My TD-8 currently drives my TD-6 and Alesis D-4 by way of an 8X8 MIDI patchbay, and there are no latency problems that I've run across, so I have no reason to believe that there would be if I were to connect the TD-6 directly to the TD-8 with just a straight MIDI cable. In fact, I've been stacking and alternating D-4 and TD-8 sounds via MIDI for some time now, and it's always worked great. An added benefit of this is that the D-4 is triggered using the TD-8's triggering parameters, and the dynamic range is appreciably better than just plugging a pad directly into the D-4. I can also tell you without exaggeration that I personally have never run into a situation where crosstalk or related negative factors have caused one module that's MIDI'd to another to trigger "accidentally" without the other one doing so as well. Luck, perhaps? Maybe. I just know it's never happened to me. dr. kildrum, I know that you're trying to make an informed decision about this TD-6 thing, and I say go for it, man! I've yet to run across anything on the TD-6 that is making me wish I hadn't bought it, and a lot of things are making me glad that I did.

"How/where would one mount a TD-6 to a V-Pro kit (and rack)? And is the TD-6 have the same V-Cymbal compatibility that the expanded TD-10 has?"

My TD-8 is mounted on a horizontal rack bar to my rear left using a standard Gibraltar clamp and a Roland MDY-7U (is that right?)---pretty much a normal mounting setup. You know those caps that you can mount onto a vertical rack bar that accept a cymbal boom arm? I put a ratchet tilter arm into one of those and mounted my TD-6 (also with an MDY-7U(?) fitted to it) above, slightly to the right, and at an angle to the TD-8. Works great, looks cool.

If, when you're referring to "V-cymbal Control", you mean the expanded ride option on the TD-10, then, no, the TD-6 does not have this feature. Now maybe someone can enlighten me here, but what's the big difference with this option? Never in my 23 years of drumming have I played a ride cymbal on its edge, and I'm not about to start now. So if you're getting bow and bell from your ride cymbal and are satisfied with the results, what need is there for a three-zone bow/bell/edge configuration? I defer to you TD-10EX owners on this one......

"If the TD-6 is like the TD-8 as far as sounds and their quality (I believe some had supported the sounds and their quality from the TD-6 & 8 from experience), then the TD-7t will not sound better then the TD-6."

Good call, szvook, and I couldn't have said it better myself .....

[This message has been edited by Mick Wade (edited July 18, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Mick Wade (edited July 18, 2001).]

[Drooling Dog]

So it sounds like it would handle some Hart chokable Ecymball II crashes just fine. Correct?

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Drooling Dog

[Mick Wade]

I suspect so. Let's put it this way: I have 5 Dauz pads that wouldn't trigger for **** on the TD-8 unless the sensitivity was jacked up way high. I plugged these same pads into the TD-6 with the trigger settings right out of the box, and it was actually too loud! In fact, I used the Dauz pads on the demo I mentioned above. Granted, this doesn't make an ounce of sense, but you can't argue with results.

I'll also mention that the bass drum peak point on my Mackie SR244 mixer is a volume setting of 95 using the TD-8. I make it a point when creating a new kit to set all its sounds to this level so as to eliminate any potential "speaker destroyers" that might be overlooked. In keeping with this approach, I did the same thing with the TD-6 and there was no question that the Dauz/TD-6 combo was noticeably louder than the Roland pads/TD-8 at the same volume setting of 95.

So if the Hart cymbals (which I have no experience with) work well with the TD-8, it seems pretty safe to say that they'll do so with the TD-6......

[szvook]

Originally posted by Mick Wade:

So if the Hart cymbals (which I have no experience with) work well with the TD-8, it seems pretty safe to say that they'll do so with the TD-6......

They work perfect with the TD-8. Hart has a TD-6 in their possession (as far as I remember) and I think giving them a holler would yield some answers as far as compatibility.



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szvook

[dr. kildrum]

Originally posted by Mick Wade:
dr. kildrum, I know that you're trying to make an informed decision about this TD-6 thing, and I say go for it, man!

Mick,
Huge thanks for answering all my questions. I'm sold. I'm ordering one. Now to actually decide on pad configuration (tee hee) One there...and three there...and a kick trigger for cowbell and stuff...and...

I put a ratchet tilter arm into one of those and mounted my TD-6 (also with an MDY-7U(?) fitted to it) above, slightly to the right, and at an angle to the TD-8. Works great, looks cool.)

Got a pic?

Now maybe someone can enlighten me here, but what's the big difference with this option? I defer to you TD-10EX owners on this one...

The TDW-1 upgrade does a lot more than just give you three zones on your ride. It adds/enhances many of the sounds. There has been plenty of discussion on this site with subjective evaluation and I think that in general, most agree about response (I'll get to that), and that the tom sounds and cymbal sounds are vastly improved. One of my personal favorite benefits is the increased response and dynamics I hinted at above. If you have made tons of adjustments to coax the best response and dynamics you can out of an unexpanded module, you could save them to compare, but after the upgrade, the default settings with the TDW-1 were much (MUCH) better than the best I could get prior (and you can still tweak away if you're really greedy like me). I have heard some suggest that without the V-cymbals, the upgrade is not worth it. Nonsense. I first compared the difference (before buying my Session kit) on a kit with all non-mesh pads. The difference that the TDW-1 made to the hi-hat alone IMHO was worth the $. The TDW-1 also supposedly corrects some other technical stuff that I guess isn't as important to me as the overall effect that the drums are globally much improved. It makes a TD-10 compare very favorably with a TD-8 (which it should have anyway for the price). It give you much improved response and dynamics overall, great positional sensing on toms (if you care) and some other stuff that may or may not be important to you. (Oh yeah, and three zones on your ride with positional sensing so if you want to do cymbal swells, depending on where you strike the cymbal you can determine, like on a real cymbal, the amount of "ting" in each hit. I like to have almost none at the edge, so I can do swells that almost like using mallets and because of the nice play between that and the middle part of the cymbal. Anyway, I think the expansion is the only better bang for buck that you can get for V-drums than CY-6s. (Its slightly more money, but it effects tons of things as opposed to being just one thing.)