Recording Loops with the TD-20

[drummerian]

Hello everyone!
First I would like to introduce myself. My name is Ian, I'm Irish and playing drums for over 25 years. I mostly use an Ayotte Custom drum set and a DW Collectors series set. I have been using the Roland SPD-20 for a few years now but I have just bought a TD-20 module.
I only bought the module as I already have several mesh head pads - four PD-80's, one PD-80R, one KD-80 and a few VCymbals.
To make a long story short, I bought the module, along with some ddrum triggers to trigger one of my kits. I want to make a few loops for a band I play with.
Here's my problem. I have just made a loop with it using the tabla kit and it's worked out fine. I'm going to use it for one of our songs that has an eastern type feel to it. Now I want to play along with it using one of the other kits on the TD-20. If I play the loop and try to change to another kit to play along, it changes the looped pattern to the sounds of that kit also. How can I stop this happening, or can it be done at all?
If I can't do this, can I record the loop onto a computer or other hardware?
Is it possible to make an MP3 of it?
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm very new to this, and I would be very disappointed if I can't do this. The sequencer is one of the main reasons I bought this machine. If I wasn't intending to trigger an acoustic kit with the TD-20 as well I wouldn't have this problem.
Please can anyone make sense of this for me?

[stickinthemud]

Unfortunately, whatever loop you try to play will access the kit that you have pulled up on the module. I, too, was dissappointed to learn this. It is a simple matter, though, to record to your computer (headphone out to line in or mic in) and covert it to an MP3 in Audacity (freeware). You can do some editing and other filtering operations in Audacity as well, as it is a multi-track editing program.

Once you have it as an MP3, plug your MP3 player into your Mix In jack on the TD20 and then you can play along with whatever kit you prefer.

BTW, welcome to the forum!

[drummerian]

Hello stickinthemud!
That's a great user name you have there, love it!
Thanks very much for the tip. If it's as easy as you say then I will have no problems at all.
So I don't need any hardware then, like firewire? I have plenty of usb, but no firewire. I'll do a search for Audacity, but can you tell me where to find it?

[BarT]

Here's my problem. I have just made a loop with it using the tabla kit and it's worked out fine. I'm going to use it for one of our songs that has an eastern type feel to it. Now I want to play along with it using one of the other kits on the TD-20. If I play the loop and try to change to another kit to play along, it changes the looped pattern to the sounds of that kit also. How can I stop this happening, or can it be done at all?

The reason is that any drum or percussion sound has to be in the current drum kit or percussion set. If you want to change drum kits, then the loop sounds have to be in the selected percussion set instead.

But what you want is definitely possible on the module. The way to fix it depends on how much work you have already put into creating the loop. It's possible to record directly to a percussion part: The instructions for recording a pattern include on Page 62; "You can record the percussion part with pads by pressing [SETUP] - [F1 (MIDI)] - [F2 (GLOBAL)] and then setting Local Control to “ON (PERC)” (p. 75)."

If you don't want to start again; you can copy your user pattern to a different new user pattern, but use step 3 on Page 64 (MEASURE) to change the part from DRUMS on the source to PERC on the destination. Then on the copied pattern, use PATTERN, PART, PERC, EDIT to select a percussion set and instrument (Page 55-56). It's best to change Percussion Sets 6-8 which are user percussion sets and not used by preset kits or patterns. But you still need to work out which note numbers need to be changed to the sounds you want.

If you haven't put hours of work into creating the loop already, it's probably easier to start again and record directly to a user percussion set by making that change on Page 75 to ON (PERC), and make settings at PATTERN, PART, PERC, EDIT before recording. At least that way you know that what you hear is what will play back from the pattern. If you do this you'll need to change Local Control back to ON (DRUMS) before you can play kits again.

Sorry it's not so simple, but it is at least possible. Recording percussion patterns directly was a first for the TD-20 module ("Recording directly from the pads to the percussion part is a great new feature, too", Page 12), but it's not well explained in the manual.

Bruce

[drummerian]

Thanks BarT.
I'll pay close attention to what you've said. One of my problems is that I'm so new to the TD-20 that I'm having difficulty navigating it. What you've said does sound a bit complicated as I don't know the first thing about MIDI. The good thing is that I haven't put a lot of effort into creating the loop. It's just a very simple tabla rhythm in 4/4 in one loop. I didn't want to creat anything more elaborate for my first effort as I knew I would have trouble somewhere and need to start over. As it is, it took an hour or so to learn how to make the loop at all.
Thanks for the info. I will have a go at what you suggested. I'm not very technical minded for a second year computer networks student!

[i-drum]

I'll do a search for Audacity, but can you tell me where to find it?[/

QUOTE]

http://www.audacitypro.com/

[drummerian]

Thanks i-drum. That's the same place I found it, it requires registration, is it safe? I've downloaded a version from mininova.org too. It's a torrent site I use.

[BarT]

The Audacity home page (free, no registration) is http://audacity.sourceforge.net/.

Bruce

[drummerian]

I tried going through what you suggested BarT, but no joy. It's just a bit complicated for me and like you said, the manual doesn't explain too well. I think maybe I'll give the audacity thing a twirl as it may be less difficult. Now I just need to figure out how to use that!
I have a mate that has an amazing recording studio. I often record there myself, I just never got into the technical side of it. I'm sure he will be able to show me what to do. At least if I can record to a pc and convert to mp3, I can pop it on an ipod and play back through the mix in on the TD-20.
Why didn't Roland make this easier? Surely it wouldn't have been difficult for them to do so.

[i-drum]

Thanks i-drum. That's the same place I found it, it requires registration, is it safe? I've downloaded a version from mininova.org too. It's a torrent site I use.

yeah i see the registration, sorry i didn't try that site , never ran into that with audacity before.

[stickinthemud]

Clarification

The reason is that any drum or percussion sound has to be in the current drum kit or percussion set. If you want to change drum kits, then the loop sounds have to be in the selected percussion set instead.

But what you want is definitely possible on the module. The way to fix it depends on how much work you have already put into creating the loop. It's possible to record directly to a percussion part: The instructions for recording a pattern include on Page 62; "You can record the percussion part with pads by pressing [SETUP] - [F1 (MIDI)] - [F2 (GLOBAL)] and then setting Local Control to “ON (PERC)” (p. 75)."

If you don't want to start again; you can copy your user pattern to a different new user pattern, but use step 3 on Page 64 (MEASURE) to change the part from DRUMS on the source to PERC on the destination. Then on the copied pattern, use PATTERN, PART, PERC, EDIT to select a percussion set and instrument (Page 55-56). It's best to change Percussion Sets 6-8 which are user percussion sets and not used by preset kits or patterns. But you still need to work out which note numbers need to be changed to the sounds you want.

If you haven't put hours of work into creating the loop already, it's probably easier to start again and record directly to a user percussion set by making that change on Page 75 to ON (PERC), and make settings at PATTERN, PART, PERC, EDIT before recording. At least that way you know that what you hear is what will play back from the pattern. If you do this you'll need to change Local Control back to ON (DRUMS) before you can play kits again.

Sorry it's not so simple, but it is at least possible. Recording percussion patterns directly was a first for the TD-20 module ("Recording directly from the pads to the percussion part is a great new feature, too", Page 12), but it's not well explained in the manual.

Bruce

OK, correct me if I am wrong, but this method won't allow you to use the drum samples in the drum section of the module, but rather the various MIDI instruments available in the percussion section. If this is the case, those sounds are not nearly as realistic as the samples in the drum section.

Or am I confused on this point?

BTW, thanks for the compliment on my handle, drumerian. I suppose if the shoe fits...

[BarT]

OK, correct me if I am wrong, but this method won't allow you to use the drum samples in the drum section of the module, but rather the various MIDI instruments available in the percussion section. If this is the case, those sounds are not nearly as realistic as the samples in the drum section.

Or am I confused on this point?

No, you can use any of the 560 TD-20 sounds available for drums/percussion (919 with a TDW-20). Percussion sets are only different groupings of the same drum instrument sounds which can be used in kits.

Bruce

[drummerian]

It would be much easier for me if I could see a demonstration of doing this. The manual is just incomplete. There's a great drummer I know that uses a TD-10 who is going to give me help when it comes to triggering the acoustics and he might know a thing or two about this and show me. I don't think the TD-10 has the same capabilities, but I think he's familiar enough with the TD-20. I can see myself using the Audacity method though. It'll mean being in less control when playing back, but I won't be using complicated sequences, just some simple loops. I'll just record more than is needed and either fade it out at the end or simply turn it off.

[stickinthemud]

Yes, lots to be said for simplicity, but BarT, I will have to try your approach...

[Fat Rich]

If you haven't filled up all your trigger inputs, maybe you could temporarily plug some triggers into the spare ones (probably Aux 1-4), and add the tabla sounds to the kit (or kits) you want to use when you play along.

Re-record your loop into the Aux instruments then you can plug your triggers back where they're supposed to be and your pattern will still use the Aux sounds even if nothing's plugged into them (I think!)

BarT's method is a better long term solution once you're a bit more familiar with the module but this may get you out of trouble short term