TD-20 Expansion question

[nholloman]

Hi everyone. I have a question. This may have been answered before in this forum somewhere, but I haven't found it. When the new TD-20 expansion card comes out, will Roland also start making the TD-20 with the upgraded card in it already? So I could just wait to buy the TD-20 and avoid purchasing the card separately? I don't know if anyone here would know that answer, but there seem to be so many people who always have inside news on here........ So if anyone has the info, I would highly appreciate it. Savings the 6 or 7 hundred bucks would be great.

Neil

[Renegator]

I don't think you would save much money. I have a feeling that the TD-20 with the Exp Card will cost more than the TD-20 alone.

[Boingo]

Rene is just being kind with his statement.

Think about it. It makes no sense to do any different then they did with the TD-10 and the TDW-1 expansion card. Why would they spend all that R&D money to delvelop a card with improvements to the unit and add new and probably better sounds and then give it away?

How do you think current TD-20 owners would feel about that? And who would buy the flagship model after it was out a couple years knowing they could soon get an improved model at no additional cost? What you are suggesting might be nice for first time buyers of the unit like yourself but it is (IMO) a bad and illogical business model.

Sorry, but you are dreaming if you think that scenario will play out. Please don't take that to be sarcastic. I'm just strongly stating that you are wasting time making a purchase with this belief. Heck, the price of the TD-20 may increase during your wait.

[nholloman]

Rene is just being kind with his statement.

Think about it. It makes no sense to do any different then they did with the TD-10 and the TDW-1 expansion card. Why would they spend all that R&D money to delvelop a card with improvements to the unit and add new and probably better sounds and then give it away?

How do you think current TD-20 owners would feel about that? And who would buy the flagship model after it was out a couple years knowing they could soon get an improved model at no additional cost? What you are suggesting might be nice for first time buyers of the unit like yourself but it is (IMO) a bad and illogical business model.

Sorry, but you are dreaming if you think that scenario will play out. Please don't take that to be sarcastic. I'm just strongly stating that you are wasting time making a purchase with this belief. Heck, the price of the TD-20 may increase during your wait.

Well, that's exactly the point. The "flagship model" has been out a a few years now. My question had more to do with a new "flagship model" being released at some point. As far as how current TD-20 owners would feel, I completely understand....however, if you look at any product that has a newer better version come out, it is pretty much the same. Current owners of any product (whether it be drums or a blender) are bound to be disappointed at some point by a new and improved model coming out. I'm just trying not to buy one model one day and then find out a week later that the newer one has come available for around the same price. (Which I recently experienced when purchasing an Edirol R-09, only to find out a couple of days later that the R-09HR is being released at the end of May). Relating to the TD-10--->If that's how Roland is doing the V-Drums, then I guess I will be able to get the TD-20 guilt free. Thanks for the advice guys.

Oh by the way boingo....awesome kit.

Neil

[Renegator]

I get what you are saying Neil, but I think it is a little different with the expansion card. The TD-20, when it came out, was probably comparable in price to the TD-10 when it came out, but obviously it was a more advanced module.

When the TD-20.2 comes out (or the TD-30, as some think it will be called) it may well cost the same as the current TD-20. But that will be because advances in technology has allowed a more advanced module to be created for the same cost (more or less).

Unless they do a clearance sale on the TD-20, I don't think the price will come down. It may be more how Roland approaches vdrums than anything. And if they do have a clearance sale, it will most likely be at the very end of the product's life. By the speculation here, I would guess that is still three or more years away.

Rene

[Boingo]

Neil, I know you are thinking how typical product pricing evolves but Rene has it right.

Roland's marketing strategy seems to be:

• Come out with a flag ship model
• Wait a few years and release an expansion card
• The module continues to be sold separately
• The card is sold separately
• Prices for module stay the same or increase
• After a couple more years there is a short period of sale prices on module
• Roland inventory is eliminated
• Repeat process

This model seems to work well for Roland. They are very good at controlling inventory and prices. They know their market and do their homework. Sure us e-drummers think differently and that advances are too few and take too long. But I sometimes wonder. What would happen if they came out with a new flagship every 2 years? Would the majority of us replace our modules at $1500- $2000 a pop? Seems like the expansion card strategy might be more practical than we think. (I will state that this card release seemed to take an extraordinarily long time to release, but sales seem to have been good so maybe they know more than us .)

A word about Roland prices. Roland pricing typically doesn't fluctuate much over it's lifespan. When the life cycle is over, you start to hear folks talk about longer lead times and unavailability. Then you get a few blow out sales and suddenly word of a new product is announced. You rarely see significant price reductions during the middle of the life cycle. This is not a criticism of Roland. In fact, from a business viewpoint, it's a compliment. And, as long as they don't have any real competition, it will probably stay this way.

Look at the price of the CY-15R ride cymbal. There was a time that I thought, wait - the prices will go down. Tell me how much price variation there has been since it was first released. Look how long it has been out. It seems to me there are a lot of their products that have a similar history. They just don't fit the same mold as other products. Wait on a price reduction and purchase if you want. I just don't see it.

p.s. I am very happy with my kit. It's was one of jman's earlier kits. She's a beaut.

[nholloman]

Boingo and Rene:

Thanks so much for the advice. That is exactly the insight I was looking for.

[hcantu]

Hey Boingo.....
How much did u pay Jman for that awesome kit?
Are the inner triggers much better than using external (acoustic) triggers (this is what I'm using)?

[Boingo]

Wait on a price reduction and purchase if you want. I just don't see it.

And I now refer you to this thread.

http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40522

If this thread has it right, and you can afford to get something now, you should probably jump on it.

[Boingo]

Hey Boingo.....
How much did u pay Jman for that awesome kit?
Are the inner triggers much better than using external (acoustic) triggers (this is what I'm using)?

I think I paid a very fair price for it. I purchased the shells. He upgraded the triggers to his latest design before shipping. He also included some mounts, all the original mylar heads, his settings, and some extra's. I won't go into details on prices. I got the rack, cymbals, TD-20 on my own. Recommend you work out costs with him privately if you are interested in purchasing some of his goods. I will say he is a very up front guy, can be 100% trusted and goes out of his way to help. He has many, many satisfied customers on this site.

I haven't used any external triggers so I can't compare but Jman's triggers work great. I had a TD-10 V-pro for many years and compared to Roland's factory kits (which always worked perfectly for me) I can say triggering has never been a problem. Work great. Some settings need some tweaking but the settings he provided worked great for me. I made only minor tweaks like sensitivity to make up for my personal playing style.

I have had the kit for two years now and I'm very happy with it.

[hcantu]

Glad you are enjoying it.
I may give Jman a call since my snare external trigger doesn't work too perfect like I would wish to.
Also, since I got rid of my mapex double pedal and bought the Pearl Eliminator double pedal, my bass drum is not triggering like it used to. It may be too fast .
I already tweaked everything, but I have to sacrifice something. When playing fast doubles I have to decrease the retrigger parameter, but playing a regular beat will retrigger. If I increase the retrigger parameter to play perfectly on a regular beat, playing fast doubles won't trigger perfectly.

[Renegator]

Boingo and Rene:

Thanks so much for the advice. That is exactly the insight I was looking for.

You are welcome. Just paying it forward. Without this site, I'd be lost and alone...