Jump In and Convince Me: 12 versus 20

[tripp2k]

I have sold my TD-8 and I am wrestling hard with this 12 versus 20 module thing so I was hoping this group would jump in and convince me to go one versus the other. Here is some background:

BEFORE #1: I have seen this reference regarding the TD-12 "No General Midi support: midi is supported, but not the GM Instrument table". To what extent is this going to affect MIDI triggering EZDrummer on my computer?

1. I am not in a band, but hope to one day play out as a hobby and for fun. Today, I play for me so TODAY I don't need separate audio outs.
2. I have started to do some home-based recording (I play guitar/bass/drums/keys and have others sing), but it is currently using MIDI. I don't have a mixer as I use either Reaper or Ableton to do that. I don't have plans to buy a mixer.
3. I am intrigued as everyone else is at what the TD-20 Expansion card will offer. I didn't want to restart a new discussion thread on this, but boy it would be nice to know this would be well worth investing an extra $500 today. If anyone from Roland wants to jump in and offer some insight here, you can do it via PM and I promise to keep it a secret...really.
4. I am absolutely sold on VEX and will acquire the goodies for the new module.
5. I am happy with my pad/cymbal setup, but may add splash/china and one more tom. I currently have a 4 tom setup. I believe the 12 can adequately support my input needs.
6. I can handle the $500 difference.
7. I will be buying new from one of the highly referenced suppliers.
8. I'm more after the drum tone/sound quality than I am "hit pad here and you have an acapella of birds".

SO...dive in and help a poor soul out with this decision. I've convinced myself both ways at least a dozen times. Thanks!

[SuperPuss]

.... 6. I can handle the $500 difference........

That statement alone would be enough for me to go for the TD20 if I was in your position.
As it turns out, I am probably going to keep my TD12 as well as getting my new TD20 (which should be here any day). From what I've heard from some of the VEX samples of TD20 ambience, the TD20 is indeed a step up in quality from the TD12 but I think Allan (amonline) would be better able to answer that.
I'll be able to report about this from first hand experience as soon as my TD20 arrives because I'll be buying some VEX packs for it and will also be converting them for my TD12 using vDrumLib. That will give me a direct comparison of the difference the extra ambience, master eq and master compression will make on the TD20.

Also, Drew posted here somewhere recently that the new sounds on the TD20 expansion card will be a significant improvement. That could also be a clincher for going for the 20 over the 12.

I am slightly biased by my chronic case of GAS but I'd be going for the TD20 considering you can handle the extra $$.

[tripp2k]

Thanks SP. I wish someone from Roland would plop in and figure out how to get that extra $500 out of my pocket (a decent expansion description would do it) cause I am really challenged to rationalize it given my needs as of today. For the expansion card, that $500 difference is actually something greater depending on whatever the card sells for.

Drew or anyone from Roland...whacha got? Decision time is < 48 hours away.

[BarT]

BEFORE #1: I have seen this reference regarding the TD-12 "No General Midi support: midi is supported, but not the GM Instrument table".

General MIDI is really just a slightly ancient (1991) instrument sound set for compatibility with external synthesizers, and it's not supported on the TD-20 either. Even on a TD-6/8/10 which do have a GM Mode, it hardly ever gets used because of restrictions (like not being able to use the song/pattern sequencer in that mode for playing or recording). I think Roland dropped it in more recent modules because it got used so little.

To what extent is this going to affect MIDI triggering EZDrummer on my computer?

Not at all.


Bruce

[tripp2k]

Thank you Bruce

[rbressers]

I had the very same "problem" a few weeks ago. I was using a TD6V and wanted to upgrade to either the TD12 or TD20.
I know myself, and if i want something good, i want it top-notch, so i got the TD-20, which is 600 euro's (about $800) more on the TD-12 overhere in the NL.
I'll never regret the choice, as the 20 is really amazing. Especially when using the VEX kits, which you can but as an (affordable) extra. I'd say, go for the 20.

[SuperPuss]

I just found the post where Drew hinted at some of the upcoming features of the TD20 expansion card....

We know that many people were disappointed that Roland did not show the much anticipated TD-20 expansion board at Winter NAMM 2008, however I wanted to post some facts (and a little history) that may clear up some misconceptions and confusion.

First of all, for Roland to release advance information about any future products never (or very,very rarely) happens. Any details about product that is being developed or even an approximate release time frame for a product that is being developed is also highly unusual. For many technology based companies, this cautious practice of secrecy is not only commonplace, it is perfectly normal and crucial.

This past summer, something unusual happened. In July 2007, Roland provided and approved the following statement that is posted on the V-Expressions web site:

Release date: "Sometime in 2008."
Features: "More sounds and software enhancements, as well as some new ambience models.

In August 2007 Roland Japan posted on Roland.com (Roland's international site) the following statement about the TD-20 expansion board:

"It is now under development and the release timing is not fixed yet. Our target is to release in Summer 2008."

Mike Snyder and I acknowledged both of these official statements at FutureDrum '07 on September 22, 2007. Mike and I also briefly commented on our visit to Japan along with the rest of the Roland US drum team, where the US team heard examples and had a hands-on experience of a few the planned expansion board features. We did not provide any specific details or descriptions, however we remarked that what we experienced "blew us away."

No one from Roland ever claimed that the TD-20 expansion board would be shown at Winter NAMM 2008 in Anaheim. In fact, Mike Snyder pointed this out in September 2007 on this very forum:

"... before it gets out of hand ... I got a call from Drew. Just to clarify, he didn't say it would be revealed at Winter NAMM 2008. As we've said ... The official line is: "The target date for release is mid-2008."
...So, don't look for it at WNAMM ... Sorry. :-(

http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showpost...20&postcount=8

Roland realizes that many TD-20 owners (and potential owners) are frustrated that the expansion board has not been released yet, and Roland made these statements to reassure customers that we value them and have not abandoned developing this product.

Although I cannot prevent anyone from speculating what additional features might be added to the expansion board, I will not be posting any details, nor will I respond to any posts that are designed to extract any specific information. Sorry.

Summer 2008 will be here before we know it, and hopefully all will be well with the V-drumming world.

Thanks for your understanding and most importantly, your support.

[Swaledale]

Agreed, if you afford the 20 (and have a bit spare for the forthcoming expansion card) go for the 20..... otherwise I suspect you will end up lusting after it anyway. If you use the 20 and decide it's all a bit too much, you can sell it and get most of the cash back and buy a 12 instead, and have some cash left over. No brainer!

Having said all that, I upgraded from a 6 to a 12 and am very happy with it. I just couldn't justify the extra cost of a 20 (and I knew I'd also want the expansion card later this year), but if I could have I would have!
Hey if you're not sure you could always buy a 20 and give it to me to test for you while you have my 12

[rythm]

I bought the TD-12, sold it after nine months and bought the td-20 instead. No regrets at all.

Only thing I blame myself for is the lack of self insight, not buying the td-20 from the start which cost me some extra money.

The td-12 isn´t bad at all.The td-20 is just overall better. In my case I also love playing on bigger toms, kick and snare.

The factory kits on the td-20 was a bit of a disappointment though, compared to the td-12, so you´ll need the VEX-packs.

[Hercules]

Hi Tripp2K,

It's the perpetual question...a TD-12 would probably do the trick for you now but things can change after a short time.....you often find there is something that you really need "tomorrow" that you didn't value at all "today".
The prime example in the TD-20 is the ability to assign your kit instruments to 8 separate groups - this is a real blessing if you're recording on a multitrack and you've done "that killer track" but it has 1 glaring mistake......it's so much easier to fix a single note or track than it is to repeat the entire performance.
If $s are no issue it's always better to have something with more than something with less.......I'd certainly go with the TD-20, but having said that I'm still really happy with my TD-6V (until the $s roll in to pay for the next GAS fix)

[PumaPhreak]

Get both and give me one!!!! J/K, I would go for the TD-20 since you can afford the extra $.
B

[tripp2k]

I appreciate all the input. You guys and gals are killing me. I keep convincing myself to hang with the 12 and really use the EZD I've invested in + continue to VEX things up. It's been fun to watch the comments and I can't tell you how much they are stoking up my G.A.S. Keep it coming and I'll share what I decide on and why.

[AardvarkHill]

If you can afford it then the 20, no question...

I just posted my reasons for getting a TD-20 over the 12 here...

http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showpost...0&postcount=33

While I talk about the VEX stuff, I also go into detail about my personal experiance testing each out for several weekends.

Might be helpful to you.

Bruce

[CobaltSky]

I think SuperPuss summed it up very well.

If you can afford the TD20, then going for the 12 anyway is almost certainly a false economy. The 20 will stay with you longer (as your needs change), even not including the fact it is expandable.

If you purchase the 20, the chances are very good that the cost in the long run will be less - either because you'll avoid incurring a loss when you have to sell a 12 and upgrade to a 20 anyway - or because the resale on the 20 is likely to be high for a good few years to come (I'm sure the resale on the 12 will also be reasonable, but the 20 is the standard and its expandability should give it a significantly longer life in the market).

The 12 is a fine machine, but if you're serious and can possibly scrape together the required $$s, the 20 is a rather better option, just about every way you look at it.

[Fullback32]

I just went through this conundrum myself...in fact I just bought the new module Saturday and it shipped this morning. I went ahead and got the TD-12 (paid $850 for it) even though I could afford the 20 as I am a tight-wad, cheapskate, thrifty, miser....choose your adjective....and my wallet squeeks and protests every time it is opened. Granted, in the long run, I will probably end up getting a 20 or it's successor down the road (like in 2-3 years), but for right now, the 12 is going to do everything I need in the present. Hey, I just upgraded after playing a TD-6V as my main module for the past three years, so there you go. I am very patient.