Hart drums need more heart :( REVIEW

[TheInsider]

Peter,
I like that you fixed the hi-hats, that was my only problem. Thanks!

Try to get that kind of service from the mega-companies like Brand X or Brand Y, its not going to happen.

[hdi]

[hdi]

s vibe

"Ive had the sudio ax kit for a year now, just thought id pay it forward and let any potential buyers know what I went through. First off, I have no beef with hart dynamics the customer support is great, Peter is a good guy, but the kit is a whole different story. Also I dont endorse any companies so everything here is truth. 1st problem, the hi hat pedal was not compatible enough with my roland td8 module, (not sensitive enough to be acceptable and could not perform a foot crash), I sent it back and now use a roland pedal "which I love". "

HDI's EPEDAL does everything the Roland pedal does. It has full variable control and does foot splashes flawlessly. Even our $700 Prodigy DVC set offers these features as evidenced in our demo. Many players including myself prefer our pedal over Roland's. Use whichever pedal you like best.

"2nd one of the cymbal springs was (too loose) The cymbal just flopped around, probably not harts fault, just a lapse in quality with aqaurian, still a pain to wait for another one to be shipped."

We have replace 2 cymbal springs since 1993, which is when we started supplying the springs with our cymbals.

"3rd over half of the screws and bolts in the rack system cross threaded while I made simple and infrequent adjustments, (they got stuck and had to be broken out and replaced with better quality ones from a hardware store)."

We have never has this problem with any other customer.

"4th the ride cymbals bell and ride surface would not stop cross talking from each other after many weeks of trial and error and every possible configuration of the module. I had to take it apart and rig/isolate it myself to work properly, now its ok."

I am glad you were able to modify our design to meet your requirements. This also has not been necessary for any other customer. I think this might be related to issue #8.

"5th the cymbal arms dont lock tight enough and the cymbals pivot to akward angles during practice, so I have to reset them during every practice session,"

Again issue 8. The Studio sets are our least expensive sets and use plastic clamps that are the same a the V Session set. Our Custom, MegaPro/GigaPro and Hart Professional sets have stainless steel tubing and forged aluimum clamps.

"also the rivets have fallen out of the ride and hi hat arm poles a few times and had to be hammered back in."

I believe you are referring to roll pins. Roll pins can be hammered back in. Within the last year, we have switched to rivets on all tom arms, x-hats, and cymbal booms. We have never repaired or replaced one of these.

"6th about six months after owning the kit my hihat pad stopped working, so I sent it back. They shipped it back to me not repaired, so I had to ship it back again."

We are human and do make mistakes. All things you repeatedly beat with a stick may break. This is very rare. Again, see issue 8.

"7th I recently used the drums to record a working demo and was embarassed when the snare started to miss hits. (after which I did replace the head which kind of corrected it for a few weeks, now its doing it again) and nothing seems to work to get it to work properly. "I will never try to use these in a professional gigging or recording situation again".

Replacing the drum head will not fix a drum that is triggering incorrectly. Sounds like the foam under the head may be wearing out. If this is the case, you would notice a gradual deterioration in triggering. This may be something as simple as a cable being damaged on the way to the studio. Many players use our drums for years without having to replace the foam. Some players strike the drums with a glancing blow, which puts little tears in the foam and eventually deteriorates the surface. The sensor foam is easily replaced by the user and costs a couple bucks. if you have this problem, you should keep a couple backups. Even the venerable v-drums cone must be replaced.

"8th The last straw was when I was practicing for a very important gig and the bass drum beater shaft broke."

This statement says a lot. To my knowledge, we are the only company which uses hardened stainless steel for our beater shafts. We have never had one of the shafts break. I don't know that I have ever heard of anyone actually breaking a Beater shaft. You must be an incredibly hard hitter which may account for issues 4 -7.

"A Few other problems that are intermittent are the bass drum wedge will ocassionally miss hits"

Turn cross talk off in the Module.

"and one of the series 10 cymbal pads will trigger a different sound than is programed and is also missing hits. This could be a module setting problem but I havent really messed with the settings since I got it perfectly compatible to my playing style and they never did this in the recent past."

You're hitting the cymbal so hard it is flexing to the point of closing the CHOKE circuit and triggering the RIM sound. Again, check out our online demos. There is a lot of diverse playing without any Cymbal triggering issues. if it didn't cut out in the past, your cable is probably failing.

"There are a few other things that could be improved upon with the over all design but this review is srictly about what has gone wrong or failed. If it was one or two things I could deal with it but this is rediculous. If I had to do it all over again I would have pieced togather a kit using equiptment from a few different companies "only using the acupad toms" from this kit which have performed flawlessly. Well there you have it, one mans story about what is now just an expensive practice pad set."

I'm glad you like the Toms.

clymore

"I experienced some of the same problems with the Hart/Alesis set donated to our church."

The Alesis set was built to Alesis specification, much to our chagrin.

"The acusnare piezo foam cone lost all the tension under the mesh head about 3 months after I started playing it (and I don't hit that hard). I took it apart to see if I could fix it because I hated to send it off for a few weeks and be without it. I found when I took the head off that the four plastic posts that the screws thread into were broken off flush. These are the screws that hold the two shell halves together. The halves fell apart when I removed the last rim screw. I sent the snare back to Hart and they put a new foam cone in it. The screw posts were still broken when I got it back. The cone did have some tension against the head but now it is flat again."

This is an Alesis Snare Pad, NOT an ACUSNARE. The ACUSNARE is a metal acoustic drum shell. Foam can wear out. ACUPAD plastic posts have brass inserts. Alesis elected to leave these out to save money.

"The rim has never worked properly for cross stick. It triggers the snare no matter what settings I change on the DMPro. I use an insert cable and mounted a Nimrod beside the snare for cross stick."

it is common for people to use accessory pads to trigger cross stick sounds. ROLAND modules have the best cross stick feature. Most players use the dual trigger snare for head and rim shot sounds. Fred Coury with Cinderella and David Northrup with travis Tritt are both touring right now and using the Hart Hammer for triggering x-stick sounds.

"A few months ago the spring in the hi-hat controller broke and I had to send it back. It was repaired and sent back pretty promptly (but I still had to have a backup for a week)."

The Alesis hi hat pedal has 1 spring ( Alesis spec) the Hart EPEDAL 2. We are upgrading the Alesis pedals to our design at no charge.

"The clamps built in to the snare/toms will not tighten on the L-rod enough to hold it steady."

The clamps (pearl style) have a nylon insert to accommodate L-rod mounts. Alesis had purchased racks preassembled with L-rod mounts. you may remove the nylon insert, and use Pearl Tom arms.

I tried to get the doctor to donate a Roland but his brother recommended the Hart/Alesis.

In defense of Alesis, the Alesis set sold on the street for about $1,600. The least expensive ROLAND kit with mesh heads was about $2,600. This is 40% less or almost half the price, it is a fine set, and we are backing it up for them.

[RVH]

Amazing!!!
The simple truth is.. If you hit on something over and over it will probably break. I toured with a drummer for 5 years that broke cymbals, stands, heads kick pedals every other part of his kit regularly. It's the nature of the beast.

What I find so cool about Hart is they know drummers will break the stuff and still repair or replace it for life. Wow!!

How many companies will do that? Not many that I deal with.
(yes, I'm a dealer)

Of all the manufacturers I deal with, Hart scores AAAA in product quality and customer service.

There's my two cents.
Rik

P.S. Hey Paul, got any brown kits?

[FloridaDrummer]

What!!! Is this what Sepdrums left for!!!! I've been reading the I'm outta here post not knowing what the reference was. I searched it and found this. I can't believe it!!! Come on Erik, your better than this. At least I thought you were. I mean (to take a C Jude phrase) WTF!!!!!!!

Get your panties out of a puff, consider the source and move on!!!

[poorboy]

Szvook... Svibe, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah... do ya think?

------------------
~Robin

[drummercat]

I havent own a whole kit of Hart,
but I have 1 Ecymbal II ride, hat, crash and splash......and a acusnare.

I bought these near 1 year ago.
The ride never have problem....all cymbals too!!
I havent break a Ecymbal II.....but my friend break me 1 of these.....Hart immediately send me a new one....I only need pay shipping.........Thats the customer service I never dreamed of....Good job Hart!!

Yes the acusnare`s cone foam turned hard quickly......I think Hart should improve
this foam......Finally I cut a piece of car spongy to replace it....worked great!

the mesh head are little bit louder.....
but the feel is much better than roland,
rolnad is too bouncy.

Harts product not so bad, at least for me,
thanks!

[GRRAVEE]

hey erik.......we need you around here.also.....vibe your post was harsh at best.tone it down a notch.hope your next day is better than your last.night all.

[vdrumatic]

Hi all, I own a Hart BX kit for 4 years now and have only great experiences with my kit and also with Hart. So, from me, it's thumbs up for Hart.
I called Eric from SEP one time for some advice, even though I wasn't making a purchase, he took his time on the phone and was a real gentleman.
My buddy bought a Hart kit from Eric and has enjoyed the kit for 2 years now.
Eric is a real cool guy.
Have a nice day, Rick

[sepdrums]

Isn't this lovely.... congratulations for catching me in a really really bad mood...this will get ugly. Hart - I apologize in advance for being unprofessional.

First, this is not my career or my profession. I am an engineer. This is a side business. Luckily for me I have a substantial income with another career. This is someting I do for fun....

However, on that same note, being a small business owner, I like to stand up for folks out there trying to make a living...I know how tough it is. Imagine trying to compete with Roland...I give anyone who steps in, designs & builds a competitive product a whole lot of respect. Oh...this must be another excuse, right?

Well, Mr. Svibe, I do not need your smart alic comments or attitude. Go sell your Hart gear and buy whatever from whomever...it makes no difference to me. I simply did not like the comments about an otherwise great company with great products. You are among the few who have experienced these problems... I wonder how many Roland owners, or any other owners of anything are faring these days???

Looks like I am the bad guy again....sleezeball sales guy who lies, cheats and steals to make a living, right??

Oh...and Ive come up with excuses, and I'm outnumbered?? Excuses??? Do you think I am trying to patch a wound to make a buck?? What is wrong with you?? So, should I now turn and run from the big bad meanies who otherwise wish they had jumped on the bandwagon?? Maybe I shouldn't defend products I sell...that would be biased... Yea - maybe so...but do you think I would sell somehting I don't beleive in??? I am speechelss.

Thanks for the best wishes. My edrum company does just fine FYI, and it will continue to do so regardless.

I really don't need this s-h-i-t. Some of you people have a lot of nerve.

Well, Mr. Svibe, to your great satisfaction I will be done posting here for quite a while. The flames like to fly when a deler makes a statement. I really don't need the frustration. There are bigger problems in the world. I think the occupation in your profile says it all about you.

For the rest of you that are actually cool, see ya later.

Erik
SEPdrums

[This message has been edited by sepdrums (edited June 22, 2002).]

[svibe]

Well, Mr. Sepdrums as I said, I dont endorse or sell electric drums like you do on EBAY and have nothing to gain or loose by my comments. In a perfect world, If a product is put on the market it should perform to a "BASIC" workable standard and the studio ax has not. Im not asking these drums to turn water into wine, just not fall apart in front of my eyes. You've come up with some great excuses, but come on look at the responses...looks like your out numbered. Good luck with your e-drum business.

[antinucci]

Sorry Hart, I have to agree...

I have had my Hart GigaPro for about two years now. I am also quite unhappy with them. I posted my issues to this forum before. The short list is three cracked cymbals, three base drum trigger failures, three snare drum trigger failures. They have ridiculusly loud hi-hat and ride cymbals, cheesy feeling toms (there are made out of plastic, not metal), and the mesh heads are too loud (it may be that the toms are so light weight that they are resonating or something). If I had to do it over, I would definitley buy the Rolands especially with their rubber cymbals.

Yes Hart fixes things, but you paying shipping, a $14.00 return fee, and being without your drums for the duration is annoying. The point is, if the damn stuff would not break in the first place Hart would not need such a good repair policy. If they didn't they'd be out of business a long time ago.

Maybe their newer Professional series is better - but I would not take the chance. If I were to spend another $5K on a set, it would be Roland pads and cymbals and good rack system - I actually really like the Hart hardware and would keep that.

Anyone want to trade their Roland pads/cymbals for some Hart pads/cymbals? I did not think so.

I'd love to unload them for some Rolands.
http://www.systolic-usa.com/kit.jpg

[sepdrums]

Look at it this way....

Clamps - IMO all plastic clamps are junk. If I were ordering an electronic drum kit, I would specify that I want heavy duty multi-clamps....the aluminum tubes are fine, just get heavier clamps. Hart is not the only company with these problems...Roland, Pintech, Yamaha all have the plastic clamps as standard on the more inexpensive kits....wait - even V-drums have plastic clamps... I know there are many of you who can share a horror story about junk clamps.

The hat pedal problem is the first I have heard...maybe a defective unit...Hart has historically had great hat pedals. There are certainly worse.

The cymbal spring - same as above...could you tighten the screw any more??

Rivets - when they fall out, use sheet metal screws.

In studio or live settings, improvise when a part breaks...because parts do break. Use a tom as a snare. Fix snare later.

You may argue "gee, I spent a lot of money and things shouldnt break like this"....well, at times there isnt anything you or anyone else can do about it. Just be glad that Hart is great to work with....they will fix any problem with their gear...

Some of the problems sound like hardware issues that could be resolved with higher quality gear...If you are gigging and moving this kit around a lot, then get Gibraltar hardware...clamps, rack, arms, everything.. You cannot expect plastic clamps and inexpensive boom arms to last long in that type of situation.

Triggering issues - adjust the module.... It is possible to get it right.

Broken triggers / pads - in a situation like yours, shame on you for not improvising or having spares. Common sense.

Hart is always continuously improving their products... Electronic drums are prone to damage just because the nature of their design...things break...schite happens...

This may seem like a snotty reply, but I do not like to see a company like Hart get beat on because of a situation like this... OK, maybe the repairs didnt go as planned, but their products and customer service are top notch...

Erik
SEPdrums

[clymore]

I experienced some of the same problems with the Hart/Alesis set donated to our church.

I quit using the cymbals (those hard plastic ones) and replaced them with some Yamaha cymbals I already had. The Hart cymbals are under the stage at church.

The acusnare piezo foam cone lost all the tension under the mesh head about 3 months after I started playing it (and I don't hit that hard). I took it apart to see if I could fix it because I hated to send it off for a few weeks and be without it. I found when I took the head off that the four plastic posts that the screws thread into were broken off flush. These are the screws that hold the two shell halves together. The halves fell apart when I removed the last rim screw. I sent the snare back to Hart and they put a new foam cone in it. The screw posts were still broken when I got it back. The cone did have some tension against the head but now it is flat again.

The rim has never worked properly for cross stick. It triggers the snare no matter what settings I change on the DMPro. I use an insert cable and mounted a Nimrod beside the snare for cross stick.

A few months ago the spring in the hi-hat controller broke and I had to send it back. It was repaired and sent back pretty promptly (but I still had to have a backup for a week).

The clamps built in to the snare/toms will not tighten on the L-rod enough to hold it steady.

I tried to get the doctor to donate a Roland but his brother recommended the Hart/Alesis.

[svibe]

Ive had the sudio ax kit for a year now, just thought id pay it forward and let any potential buyers know what I went through. First off, I have no beef with hart dynamics the customer support is great, Peter is a good guy, but the kit is a whole different story. Also I dont endorse any companies so everything here is truth. 1st problem, the hi hat pedal was not compatible enough with my roland td8 module, (not sensitive enough to be acceptable and could not perform a foot crash), I sent it back and now use a roland pedal "which I love". 2nd one of the cymbal springs was (too loose) The cymbal just flopped around, probably not harts fault, just a lapse in quality with aqaurian, still a pain to wait for another one to be shipped. 3rd over half of the screws and bolts in the rack system cross threaded while I made simple and infrequent adjustments, (they got stuck and had to be broken out and replaced with better quality ones from a hardware store). 4th the ride cymbals bell and ride surface would not stop cross talking from each other after many weeks of trial and error and every possible configuration of the module. I had to take it apart and rig/isolate it myself to work properly, now its ok. 5th the cymbal arms dont lock tight enough and the cymbals pivot to akward angles during practice, so I have to reset them during every practice session, also the rivets have fallen out of the ride and hi hat arm poles a few times and had to be hammered back in. 6th about six months after owning the kit my hihat pad stopped working, so I sent it back. They shipped it back to me not repaired, so I had to ship it back again. 7th I recently used the drums to record a working demo and was embarassed when the snare started to miss hits. (after which I did replace the head which kind of corrected it for a few weeks, now its doing it again) and nothing seems to work to get it to work properly. "I will never try to use these in a professional gigging or recording situation again". 8th The last straw was when I was practicing for a very important gig and the bass drum beater shaft broke. A Few other problems that are intermittent are the bass drum wedge will ocassionally miss hits and one of the series 10 cymbal pads will trigger a different sound than is programed and is also missing hits. This could be a module setting problem but I havent really messed with the settings since I got it perfectly compatible to my playing style and they never did this in the recent past. There are a few other things that could be improved upon with the over all design but this review is srictly about what has gone wrong or failed. If it was one or two things I could deal with it but this is rediculous. If I had to do it all over again I would have pieced togather a kit using equiptment from a few different companies "only using the acupad toms" from this kit which have performed flawlessly. Well there you have it, one mans story about what is now just an expensive practice pad set.