I'm a little bit "ascared"

[egadd]

I have the chance to buy a used set of TD-8's (in immaculate condition) -from a good friend. I'm considering it (as I have been considering buying new for close to a year now), but after reading many of the postings on this site, I'm becoming a little "a-feared".
I would use the kit for playing into my computer (midi) in which I run Emagic's "Logic". I would also potentially use them for playing out.
The reason(s) I'm a little leary of buying them after reading this site (great site by the way) is because of certain things I've read -like not being able to change midi note numbers, and breaking clamps, and not enough outputs and too much cross-talk etc.
Right now I play acoustic drums when playing out -along with a Roland R-8 drum machine -which I use for percussion in certain songs, and for a click track in other songs. I need to be able to program a percussion sequence into the td-8 which I can trigger at any time while playing... which I've been told I can do.
I also need to be able to hear a click through headphones without it being sent through the master output (want to hear the vdrums in the mains, but not the click) -which I've also been told they can do.
Some of these complaints about cymbal booms breaking, and clamps slipping out of position, and the size of the rack being too small etc. are slowly changing my mind about buying these.
I'd probably use the vdrums even more for midi purposes. I would so much rather play my vdrums to a song on the computer (all the way through) than "piece" it together bit by bit using my keyboard. But some of the complaints about midi capabilities etc. are less than desireable.
I've played the td-10's and the td-8's. For my purposes I'd rather have the td-8's. I like the way they play (although I have my own little wish list about certain things). So I know a little bit about what the capabilities of the setup are.
I guess what I'm asking for is some advice on whether or not I should go through with this... although the price is cheaper than what they are new, they're still pricey to me.
I would be mainly using them for playing into the computer. I would then use sound fonts for the drum sounds when mixing down.
Are there any problems with just doing a "general midi" interface with a sequencing program? Am I going to be playing hi-hat/snare/kik while recording ...and then have to transpose all of them in Logic because I'm suddenly hearing back a cowbell/tom/tambourine?
Any suggestions/help/advice would be appreciated.
Thanks

[acidbran]

Hi.
Pass.

------------------
Jeff, using...
td 8,PD-120,
pintech pads,gibraltor rack, JBL G2 EON 15 AND Mackie srs-1500, BBE 462 yamaha maple customs, remo jazz kit, buttloads of cymbals... 96 Tahoe,leather.

[egadd]

Originally posted by acidbran:
Hi.
Pass.

That's it? ..."Hi. Pass"? I know it's to the point, but would you care to enlighten as to "why" I should pass? -(based on your personal experience).

[Pleiadian]

Egadd,

I can not answer all your questions, but I'll try a few.

You CAN change the midi notes on the TD-8 on a per kit basis. You won't have to transpose stuff to get the right sounds!

Regarding the outputs. If you're going to use it for midi purposes, you probably don't care about the fact that it's got 4 outputs. Yes the TD-10 has more, but IMO this is only important when performing through a PA with external effects. At home, I always play just with 2 outputs that go to a small mixer.

Are you sure you want to use the TD-8 to trigger soundfonts on your computer? The sound coming from the TD-8 is superior to any soundfont I've heard so far.

Personally... I have no complaints about the quality of the pads, clamps or rack. I have to say though that I hardly move my kit around. I invite other musicians to my home!

Peace,

Rob

[acidbran]

Originally posted by egadd:
That's it? ..."Hi. Pass"? I know it's to the point, but would you care to enlighten as to "why" I should pass? -(based on your personal experience).

I'll pass.
Sorry for the confusion.

[drmoze]

Howdy,

Dunno about the MIDI details of the TD-8, but here's a tip for the click: I have seen headphones that have a built-in, adjustable metronome. Using those will give you the click that doesn't go through the outputs, fer shure! $^)

[egadd]

Originally posted by Pleiadian:
Egadd,

I can not answer all your questions, but I'll try a few.

You CAN change the midi notes on the TD-8 on a per kit basis. You won't have to transpose stuff to get the right sounds!

Regarding the outputs. If you're going to use it for midi purposes, you probably don't care about the fact that it's got 4 outputs. Yes the TD-10 has more, but IMO this is only important when performing through a PA with external effects. At home, I always play just with 2 outputs that go to a small mixer.

Are you sure you want to use the TD-8 to trigger soundfonts on your computer? The sound coming from the TD-8 is superior to any soundfont I've heard so far.

Personally... I have no complaints about the quality of the pads, clamps or rack. I have to say though that I hardly move my kit around. I invite other musicians to my home!

Peace,

Rob

Thanks for the info Pleiadian. I think I will use sound fonts on the computer if I get these vdrums. I've heard the sounds on them as well and I agree -they are very good. I have some pretty decent sound fonts for kits as well (on the computer) upon which I can add various effects (which I also know you can do with the td-8). I'm trying to keep the mixdown contained to the computer itself -without any outboard gear. I think just being able to play real drums to a midi track will make me happy. It would be nice to be able to throw some "feel" back into a drum track without having to use groove quantize etc. It'd be nice to have a drum track as played by a drummer -yet not have to mic an acoustic kit and take up extra audio tracks to do it ...
Again, thanks for your response -it was most helpful.
Ed

[egadd]

Originally posted by drmoze:
Howdy,

Dunno about the MIDI details of the TD-8, but here's a tip for the click: I have seen headphones that have a built-in, adjustable metronome. Using those will give you the click that doesn't go through the outputs, fer shure! $^)

Thanks drmoze
The headphones sound like a good idea ...one problem I can forsee for some songs I do though is: I have some pre-programmed drum parts that play independent of me (like a conga/tambourine part for "Feelin' Alright" by Joe Cocker for instance) So I have to be able to hear a click that's in sync with the conga/tambourine part -that's pre-programmed. I'm pretty sure the td-8 can do this. I've heard I can send the click to whatever outputs I want. I hope this is true. I've heard I can send (for eg.) the whole kit plus the click through the headphone jack, but still send just the whole kit minus the click through the main outputs.
This configuration would work for me.
Let me know if I'm talking nonsense here.
Thanks again.

[Tom Berry]

Ed,
I do the exact same thing on the same song. except I have a td10. Its been a while since I've played the v's out (been doing hand percussion gigs) but I think I set things up like this.
I have two different percussion patterns. One for the intro & chorus, and one for the verses. I start the songs by pushing the play button on the td10 which gives me an 8 count before the pattern starts. Then I have a pad assigned - strike the head it starts the pattern, hit it again it stops. Strike the rim it starts the other pattern, strike again it stops. Of course if either pattern is playing striking the other rim/head will stop the first pattern and begin the other. All this goes through my Mackie 12 channel mixer. Click goes out its own output into its on channel on the mixer.
Backing percussion goes out its own output to its own channel on the mixer. Stereo out for the main drum kits into the mixer. I don't know if you can do that on the td8 but thats how mine works. I think!
Tom

[egadd]

Originally posted by Tom Berry:
Ed,
I do the exact same thing on the same song. except I have a td10. Its been a while since I've played the v's out (been doing hand percussion gigs) but I think I set things up like this.
I have two different percussion patterns. One for the intro & chorus, and one for the verses. I start the songs by pushing the play button on the td10 which gives me an 8 count before the pattern starts. Then I have a pad assigned - strike the head it starts the pattern, hit it again it stops. Strike the rim it starts the other pattern, strike again it stops. Of course if either pattern is playing striking the other rim/head will stop the first pattern and begin the other. All this goes through my Mackie 12 channel mixer. Click goes out its own output into its on channel on the mixer.
Backing percussion goes out its own output to its own channel on the mixer. Stereo out for the main drum kits into the mixer. I don't know if you can do that on the td8 but thats how mine works. I think!
Tom

Thanks Tom
That's kind of funny that you do the exact same thing with the exact same tune. At least I know it can be done. The one problem with the td-8 is: I think it only has 4 o/p's and a headphone out. I wouldn't be using a 12 channel mixer ...I'd pretty much be controlling the mix from the brain and sending a stereo out to the board -and another send to my monitor/amplifier -and use the headphones when I had to follow a click. The rest of the band could get a monitor feed of the vdrums.
I still have some concerns about how the hi-hat interacts -with only 3 positions and every time I've played these vdrums, there always seems to be a polyphony problem with a quick shot (or shots) to an open hit-hat -then closing it very quickly. Sometimes it gets it, and sometimes it doesn't. Even these demos that are online here in some ways sound great to me, but in others, sound terrible to me. For instance the rolls at the beginning of the RolandVdrumsDemoJazz.mp3 and the RolandVdrumsDemoRock.mp3 sound pretty bad (electronic) to me ...and the hi-hat in the rock song sounds pretty awful to me as well (one "partially open" setting) -the cymbals don't sound too great either for that matter.
But for the most part the vdrums do sound pretty cool ...I'm just not sure if the technology is there yet (especially for the money) -but it's a lot closer than it was 4 yrs ago.
Thanks again Tom

[skp]

egadd i find myself in the same position as you.

i also want to buy an electronic kit to play w/ my computer using logic and value the ability to play into it live on a kit as opposed to writing tracks on a keyboard.

the real reason to buy vdrums for me, however, is that i'll be able to play 24/7 on a kit (i'm looking to buy the vcustom) that feels and sounds better than decent.

the biggest issue for me is price and setup. i don't need all 3 PD-80 pads for toms, just one. and same thing w/ the PD-7 triggers, i only need two of those. by cutting down on the extra pads i sustain what functionality i need and cut down cost.

i'm interested in what setup you finally chose (if you've gone ahead and bought your friend's kit) and if you're using all the pads you bought (if not would you consider selling them? 2 PD-7s and 1 PD-80)

thanks and happy searching

--> shiv <--

[This message has been edited by skp (edited September 05, 2001).]

[Pleiadian]

Originally posted by Pleiadian:
Personally... I have no complaints about the quality of the pads, clamps or rack.
Rob

I stand corrected. The clamp holding my PD-80R snare just broke. I've never adjusted or (re)moved since I got my v-custom one year ago. Not funny

What's the warranty one these things?

Rob

[Oz DrumR]

Originally posted by Pleiadian:
I stand corrected. The clamp holding my PD-80R snare just broke. I've never adjusted or (re)moved since I got my v-custom one year ago. Not funny

What's the warranty one these things?

Rob

Roland admit to clamp problem.

Below is an excerpt from a fax I have received from Roland Australia (though, given the standard of English, I suspect it may have been translated . . . from Japanese?! - if any of you have problems with clamps, or Roland say that they haven't heard of the problem, this may be of use:


Service Information

QFA-A01-B03 Issued by RJA. Date:2000/12/07 Information Number101338

Model: MDH-7U, MDY-7U, TD-8K, MDS 7U/8/10

Subject: HOLDER USED IN THE MDH-7U AND MDY-7U CRACKS WHEN FASTENED TO A STAND.

[SYMPTOM]

The holder to fasten MDH-7U or MDY-7U to a stand may crack when screw the knob. #The holder of which strength is not enough had mixed into the product for some term.

[CHANGE MODIFICATION]

Enforced the strength check at the factory and changed the mould to avoid the re-occurrence of the problem.

Refer to the following figures for the identification. A dot is added to the point indicated:

(here, there is a diagram - if the clamp was on the cross bar, with the split facing you - the circles would be just above the split at the left and right hand side of the clamp. . . . anyway, one of these circles, either the left or the right now has a dot in - on the new clamps).

[PARTS]

SU000010 - - - - Holder

[EFFECTIVE]

MDY-7U: Red or brown sticker is affixed to the tag
MDH-7U: Red or brown sticker is affixed to the tag
MDS-7U/8/10: Red or Orange round sticker is affixed to the outer packaging box.
TD-8K: S/No. ZN88850 up (From September 2000 Production)

[SERVICE RESPONSE]

When you meet a claim, please replace the holder to the new one.


That's all folks! . . of and if you need a copy of all the complaints on vdrums.com - I have a word doc I can email you - just in case they say "we have never heard of this problem - as they did to me first time around!"

[Pleiadian]

Originally posted by Oz DrumR:
Roland admit to clamp problem.

Below is an excerpt from a fax ...

Thanks Oz. I've contacted the music store, they called Roland Roland want to look at it first, before sending a replacement.

I think I'm eventually going to replace all clamps with metal dixon clamps. I don't see how they are ever going to break...

[Pleiadian]

I guess my trying to fix the clamp with superglue was a bit naive. It felt pretty solid and firm, but it instantly broke again once the clamp was back on the rack...

Experiment failed



[This message has been edited by Pleiadian (edited September 26, 2001).]