V Club vs Pintechs

[Dan the Speakerman]

Hello, everyone. I've stumbled across your fine site on a lycos search, and am on a quest for all the e-drum info I can soak up

First, a very brief into of myself. I'm an at-home hobbyist musician, and I enjoy writing and recording my own songs. I've studied the bass guitar pretty seriously for a year and a half, can play some basic guitar and keys, and used to play drums a little back in high school...and I do mean a little I was a bass drummer in the school marching/field show band and got to play quite a bit on a kit we had in the basement for about a year. So consider me a drummer newbie wanna-be. I'm 34 with a wife and son, and we live near Seattle, WA in our own home. My studio is in my little den. My recording device is a Roland VS880.

Now, to the point of the message I have played and lusted the V kits at GC for quite awhile now, but the recent MF cat showed up a couple of days ago featuring the V Club kit, and that looks do-able to me. My question is, I've also seen in the cats these Pintech kits, with mesh heads instead of rubber, and they're very reasonably priced, with Roland modules! How do these kits compare? Why not get a Pintech rig w/mesh heads for about the same scratch?

I tried the search engine for Pintech here at the forum, and found some good info, but nothing quite as specific as a direct comparison. Thanks for suffering my long-winded into-post



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[Drumsonly2002]

Welcome to the forum. From my research the pintec pads work very well with the Roland products. Apparently Pintec has a good relationship with Roland. I find this forum is a good place for E info and advice on all e topics regardless of race, colour or module. I think some here use Pintec with a Roland module. I also am building a small drum studio with a digital recorder. Best regards, Dan

[Dan the Speakerman]

Hi, D2k2, nice to meet you

I just got back from Guitar Center after demo-ing the V Clubs; I was very, very impressed! So, I did some more searching thru the archives here for info, which led to a link to an online dealer who sells these kits for $1069, called bpmmusic.com. I called GC back and they will match this price, so I can get it locally. I'm THIS close to pulling the trigger! It's a great price.

What do you currently use for a set, D2k2? How goes the process of studio building for you?

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[dr. kildrum]

Dan,
There are many threads on "what to choose" type questions, (a couple very recent). The best advice I've heard and can give is: personal preference. Mesh vs. non-mesh pads is really a matter of feel to you and price. If you are finding similar price than it is down to feel.

There are many here with preferences both ways. Still others may get a non-mesh configuration and add a mesh pad for a snare, etc. It's whatever floats your boat.

I'm not aware of any problems with the Pintech pads triggering Roland modules. They are designed to trigger various modules. There are many here who use Pintechs.

[Dan the Speakerman]

Thanks, Dr. Yeah, I completely understand what you're saying. And now that I have played both the V Club and the mesh pads of the other V kits, I can say that for the price I can get this Club kit for, it's the kit for me. The mesh heads ARE great, but I was pleasantly surprised at the responsiveness and feel of the Club's rubber pads; not 'dead' feeling like I thought they might be. I have read many of the threads/posts detailing intermixing the two types of pads, and the whole mix and match thing with the cymbals, too. It makes a lot of sense. The Club seems like a great starting point for me.

It's always sort of embarrassing posting a question like this, especially when I'm the one answering similar questions at bass forums "Which is better? Precision Bass or Jazz Bass?" Totally subjective per person, and no wrong answer. The best answer is just own one of each and you're covered

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[Dan the Speakerman]

Well, I went ahead and went to GC, and got my Clubs! My son and I are really enjoying them, and they sound absolutely fantastic! It took quite awhile to set up (get the heights correct for the pads and all) but it's all done and is a ton of fun. Now I gotta read that TD6 manual tonight

I got the V Clubs, a DW 5000 kick pedal, and a cush Roc n Soc throne. My son is 6, and he's having a great time

I'm grateful for the presence of this forum and the invaluable information and opinions I've been able to gather in such a short time. It has all helped me make a great decision.

I look forward to being a regular visitor here, and I will try hard to keep the dumb questions to a minimum...but I'm sure a few will inevitably gush out Thanks all!

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[dr. kildrum]

Congrats on taking the leap. You and your son now have percussion at your stick tips that is pretty amazing for the price. I didn't have access to my first kit until I was a few years older than your son, and guarantee you it didn't sound near as good (although to a collector that old kit would be worth some $, 1970's vintage Ludwigs almost always are.)

In time the Ludwigs started to sound better as I learned to play and then to even (correctly) tune and "tweak" them. Then they grew. You don't really have to mess with any of that stuff or can if you want to, but have a great head start, and best of all, you don't have to exercise the kind of understanding my parents did with the "gawdawful racket" coming from that room whose door must remain shut.

Enjoy.

[Dan the Speakerman]

lol!

Thanks, Dr. K!

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[Drumsonly2002]

Hi Dan thanks for asking about my set up. I'm using a different set up than the norm. For starters, I am using acoustic drums as my triggering platform. The following drums are mounted on a Gibraltar rack. (Got to get a curved one like Zeek’s though). Drums have silent mesh heads, (Pearl, Roland and Pintec heads) in the following: 22" kick, 12" Dixon snare, inserted dual trigger for rim shot and main snare sound, 2 x 12" toms in front, 13" as floor tom. This is where my kit is different. Took a 22' x 16" kick, sawed it in half (22" x 8"). Install 3 separate triggers within the 22" hitting area, hidden by a 22" Pearl mesh head. Mount them on the rack left and right. Looks like 2 bass drums on a rack on each side mounted. Thus 6 more triggers. The left unit is assigned 6", 8" and 10" toms. The other unit has, cowbell, and 2 timbalies, or effects I choose. For cymbal set up I’m using 5 splashes located in various areas, 20” Sabian ride, 18” splash, 3 x 16” crashes, and a 18” as a second ride. Also using 2 high hats, one located left side, and another on the right side. That way I can play left or right handed. I started off as a lefty, and switched to right and now use both. Using a Mapex double kick drum and high hat unit. This is the fun part. I have 2 x SKB racks for my “drum processing” center. The first consist of, Rolls power conditioner, Roland 12 channel mixer, Alesis quad 2 reverb, Alesis Dm Pro module, Alesis D-5 module, Fostex VF-16 8 track recorder (on a slide out drawer), and Behringer patch bay. The second rack contains, 2 x Alesis stereo compressors, 2 x Behringer stereo exciters with big bottom, 2 x Alesis stereo EQ's, and finally 4 DBX noise gates. Since I have 2 modules with a total of 10 outputs, it enables me to insert these outputs into the Roland’s 10 imputs. Thus I can control volume, eq-ing, reverb from the mixer of indivual drums / effects. Therefore, if I want to turn up my kick, channel two on the mixer, no need to go into the module for changes. Or add more reverb to tom 3, no problem. you get the picture. The Fostex provide me with a mixer and recorder. With the ability of using 4 outputs from the 2 mixers I devide my outputs into 4 sub groups. Sub one is snare, sub 2, kick, sub 3 toms sub 4 cymbals and effects. The 4 out puts of my 2 mixers combined go into the 2 x stereo compressors, then enhancers, then EQ’s then noise gates. I can compress, enhance, EQ each sub group separately. That way I can bring the sweet spots out in the drum sound more fully. By compressing, for example the kick, (not too much), I get more punch with out peaking the speakers. The same for the others. The trick is not to “over process” but enhance. This means a little of each is better than more. The sub group thing is done in recording studios also. After all is said and done the amount of imputs I need, including my high hats (triggered), is 17. Since Alesis have great samples, triggers exceptionally, and is rack mountable along with being very afford able it’s my choice for this project. The down side to all this set up is I have gotten away from the simplicity of using 1 module, and sacrificed portability for sound enhancement. I have to lug 2 SKB racks as opposed to a small module. When set up it really looks very very cool, and it is an eye grabber. So it’s part of my set up visually as well as practical. To monitor the unit I just bought a older 100 watt Yahama keyboard amp with a horn and 15. With my recorder in my rack it functions as a dual unit for recording the band, either live or studio type work. I’m 45, own my own business, married, home owner, former full time rock musician and own the smartest dog in the world Charlie. With all that said, this forum is an excellent place for tips, exchange of ideas, and general chat.

[Dan the Speakerman]

That is quite a rig! Sounds like you have quick and total control over all of it though. Cool idea!

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[Drumsonly2002]

Hey Dan, I just listened to your recordings. Great job! I am truly impressed. The drumming is very very good. Do you play all instruments in those recordings? I'm just drums only and do not play other instruments, thus cannot do my own material without others playing the parts. Could you post a bit about your project, some details. For example the gear, how you did it etc. I'm very intrested. Great drum sound also. Their is alot more to you than what meets the eye. Thanks for posting your songs.

[Dan the Speakerman]

Hey, thanks so much for checking out my music! I really appreciate your kind words.

About my project...well, I'm a solo artist, as you have correctly surmised. My musical background is, well, weird. I have always had a good ear for 'what sounds good', especially in a production/fidelity sense, and I have an ear that sort of understands what makes sense musically. I tried piano when I was a young kid, lasted for two weeks Fast forward to junior year in high school (1983-4!) I decided to pick up guitar and take lessons. My instructor made me buy a right handed guitar (I'm lefty) so I would always have an easy time buying instruments. I studied classical guitar with her for about six months. No bands, or anything, just played on my own for my own amusement.

Senior year, my brother's friend couldn't keep his big drumkit at his own house for a weeks, so it wound up in our basement. I loved going downstairs and playing along to ELO, Asia, The Police (where the #@!* does that bass drum beat fall in the verses of "Spirits In the Material World"???), and Genesis. I never studied technique, just banged away. It was fun! I walked on to the school marching band and played the big bass drum for a year...just boom, boom, boom. Still, no technique was taught or learned. I had no access to drums after that until I got my V Clubs six days ago.

I continued to dabble in guitar lightly to not at all until 1990, when I bought my first bass guitar, and it was love. I taught myself for a year out of books, got stuck (scales and theory), struggled for a bit, then quit to raise a family in 1993 and sold all the gear.

Got a new bass in Dec 99, actually started LESSONS in Feb 2000, thru Feb 2001. A tremendous help! Especially with theory, which I understand enough of now to compose.

I didn't necessarily want to 'play out', so I decided to start making my own music, and record. So, in July of 2000, I picked up my Roland VS880 dig. studio, my Roland EM10 keyboard, resurrect my old Yamaha electric guitar and get rollin. The first tune I ever composed in my life was "Traveler".

Now here I am, and I apologize in advance for this long-winded post

Now, to FINALLY directly address your questions, drumsonly

1) Yup, I play all the instruments. The credits of what I play are listed there on the site for each song.

2) Here's my gear list, currently:
*Roland VS880 HD recorder w/fx
*Fender Jazz Bass, Fender Precision Bass,
Rickenbacker 4001V63 bass (my BABY!),
Fender Stratocaster, Yamaha SC230 elect.
guitar.
*EV RE20 mic. ART Tubepac preamp/comp.
*Roland EM10 keyboard, Roland RS-5
keyboard (should be here Monday!!!)
*Boss DR202 drum machine (but NEVER used
it....programming is a pain, and the
sounds aren't quite right for me).
*Fender Bassman 400 amp, Fender Blues Jr.
amp. Sansamp Bass Driver DI.

and my newly acquired V Clubs.

3) How I do it (record)? SLOWLY and often
PAINFULLY When you're a one-man
project, and not a GREAT player of any
instrument, it can take awhile. I have to
make every decision myself, come up with
all the parts for each instrument. Come
up with all the melodies and rhythms. It
can be taxing and frustrating, but it's
still damn fun. Downside? No mates to
bounce ideas off of, no mates to
contribute unique ideas. Upside? You are
in full control, no arguements or egos.

Again, sorry for such a looong post!

This all brings us to my DRUMMING. As I mentioned above, I have had no training....I just found out today what a paradiddle actually is The drum sounds on my songs I achieved thru my keyboard. There are several different types of beats/rhythms to use, so I implemented them on the songs; augmenting them with a fill feature, and often playing additional parts manually on the keyboard (lots of that in 'Traveler'; all the cymbal crashes, rolls, and fills are me tapping them out on the keys). Doing the best I can with what I have! It's a good sound to begin with out of the keyboard, I then used some EQ to sweeten it, and there ya go.

I'm working on a new song that will feature my first real drumming on the Clubs, and I'm very excited about it I'm hoping to put down the first tracks tomorrow and get rollin. Will probably take several weeks, like always...and don't expect Neil Peart-drumming! This will be basic stuff!

I swear, I will never be this long-winded again, everyone And I hope I didn't squash your interest, drumsonly!

Thanks, Dan


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[This message has been edited by Dan the Speakerman (edited September 15, 2001).]

[Drumsonly2002]

In all honesty, I'm truly blown away with your talent! I've heard full bands MP3's that do not hold a candle to your material. I guess the secret is good taste, good ears, desire and talent. I'm speechless. Keep us posted with your great music. For one guy doing it all, I'm amazed. I'm sitting here shaking my head not knowing what to say. Great stuff, keep it going!

[Dan the Speakerman]

Thanks again for your enthusiasm. Makes me want to plug in right now and start trackin! Thanks for the inspiration...I'm speechless, too

BTW, I decided to 'train' myself a bit on drums. I found this neat site on Lycos called www.thedrumclub.com and they have really good free lessons. Might as well learn the good habits now of correct grip and proper stickwork. It's already really helped just in the past couple of hours!

I'll be sure to alert you when the new tune is up

Dan

PS ANYBODY can do what I do. Pick up a keyboard or guitar and surprise yourself! My music isn't hard or fancy, its just what I can do...I didn't think I had it in me. Purchasing that VS880 studio was a large gamble that maybe I COULD.

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[This message has been edited by Dan the Speakerman (edited September 15, 2001).]