New Visu-lites topic

[BINARY]

I got tired of seeing that old post that I started a year ago.

So I'm moving closer to buying these things instead of just thinking about it. I got some questions for those people who have them.

I like the flat black look of the Studio series, but the text seems to indicate that they're a lower-end version of the other ones. In the end, it's more important to me that I have quality over color preference, so I'm wondering exactly what the difference is between the two.

Also, I was reading the chokeable crash page, and it references at the top and bottom the "1650 series," but I can't find written documenation on it like I can with the 1050 and 1055. Is this a better or newer version of the 1055?

Thrird, can I choke the China cymbal? I'm tempted to just buy two chinas instead of any crashes because they look so cool, but not if I can't choke them.

On the chokeable crash page, it says

"The NEW 1055 is designed for Roland modules like the TD-8, TD-10, TD-7 and others. The stereo female jack has both the trigger and the switch circuit outputs. Both models come in 14" and 16."

What does this mean, exactly? Just that I can plug it in and it works with one trigger out? I'm pretty sure that's it, but I want to be sure.

Last question is if there are any resellers in my area, which I'm thinking no. That said, is there some kind of satisfaction guarentee if I get them and they're not what I expected? I'm into spending the 250 to get the free bag if I know that I can return them all if there's a problem.

I was thinking about skipping out the HiHat thing. I mean, I'm not sure how important that it so me. Anyone have opinions on that? Are they worth it?


Thanks,
BINARY

[BtnkBndt]

Binary,

Call them and talk with Tom, he's a real decent guy and can answer all your questions. I would be willing to bet they could make you a set of cymbals in flat black (matte finish).

As for being chokable, any of them could be choked (single input) with the right wiring. I believe they would have no problem doing this for you.

When I originally was looking at them The nearest dealer to Dallas was in a small town two hours away. They told me it had to do with Roland not wanting thier product sold in the same shop?

Just call and talk to Tom. (320) 259-1840

[cliff]

Binary,
I work with acrylic every day and matte black is very expensive. The Studio's are most likely gloss black. They may be using a different material like Sentra (flat black)for the Studio series.

[BINARY]

Thanks, guys

What I posted here I pretty much emailed to them, but if I don't hear back, I'll definately give him a call. I'll probably give hima a call when I'm ready to buy, which will be soon.

I may tell him to come in here and talk to us, not as a salesman, but like that guy from JBL did. Give us the scoop on all this.

At the very least, I'll post what he tells me.

BtnkBndt, do you have the Hats? If so, do you think they are worth it? They're the priciest of all of them, and I'm still a teeny bit unsure as to how they work.
I tend to get a little nervous about parts breaking on me and so forth, and although I'll admit that I don't understand fully, it seems the setup is a little odd.
What do you think?

BINARY

[Marc.]

Originally posted by BINARY:
On the chokeable crash page, it says

"The NEW 1055 is designed for Roland modules like the TD-8, TD-10, TD-7 and others. The stereo female jack has both the trigger and the switch circuit outputs. Both models come in 14" and 16."

What does this mean, exactly?

Well Mark, since no one addressed this part of your post, I'll give it a shot. Sounds as though the cymbal's jack is wired to transmit a voltage signal when the pad is struck ("trigger output") and is also wired to transmit (switch to) a "different" voltage signal ("switch circuit output") when performing a "choke", which the brain interprets to terminate the previous signal.

But, I could be wrong.

~~~~~
- -~

[BtnkBndt]

I personally like the hats, yes I do have them. This is one of those "you'll have to try them for yourself" answers. You can send them back if your not happy with them.

Are they worth it? Well the extra cost I'm sure is in the fact you are getting two cymbals and a control module.

How they work? The top hat has the piezo mounted underneath the same as all thier cymbals. The wiring passes through a hole in the underneath hat. The open closed function is controlled by a slide switch inside of a small box that is attatched to the hat stand above the pedal (uses a small gibralter type clamp). A metal cable that is connected to the slide switch passes through the bottom of the box and attatches to the pedal of the hat stand. This cable moves the slider which controls the hat position sound. Pretty simple setup. You do have to have the hats adjusted properly so when closed you get the closed or chic sound. You have to be careful not to have it adjusted where the cable is too tight before the hats actually close as this would probably rip the controler apart.

Also, the two zone is a waiste of the extra cash. As we all know, two piezos will not do it in the single input (unless you use feefers adapter).

You might want to try the other cymbals first just to have an idea of what the feel is like.

[PGann]

[QUOTE]" The stereo female jack has both the trigger and the switch circuit outputs "

I believe what they are referring to as "the switch circuit" is THE "CHOKE" CIRCUIT much the same as the HART cymbal pads. These use a single female stereo jack with the "tip" handing your actual sound trigger and the "middle sleeve" handling the actual choke function. This choke circuit consists of a thin ribbon (a silver tape-like material on the HARTS) of fsr tape that secures to the underside of the cymbal's rim and is wired to the middle sleeve of the jack. My guess is that this is exactly the way Roland's fsr rim trigger/choke is done, the only difference being that these are not designed to be struck to produce a 2nd sound from the pad... only choke the "1" sound. {By the way, you can actually trigger the second sound on the HART pads by tapping the fsr ribbon with your finger nail.}

[rudi-mint]

PGann: Do the Hart chokable cymbals need a stereo input to work or will they work in aux 11 using a y cord?


Kurt

[PGann]

Rudi-Mint,

For the choke to function, the stereo cord and input are required. With "Y" cord, you can get 2 different crash sounds from the AUX, but neither one will choke... and if you do tap the choke strip with your finger, you actually will trigger the sound from the other "Y'd" pad. Using a single stereo cord from a single pad into the AUX yields basically the same results... 2 different sounds (#1 from pad and #2 from choke strip) also with no choke. Even setting the sound coming from the choke strip (actually the "rim") to "OFF" will not make the choke work... just keeps the choke strip from triggering a 2nd sound.

On a related note (sorta), if you run a stereo cord from the pad to a stereo input in another module (in my case, the SPD-20) you can trigger the "rim only" note number via midi in your TD-8 or TD-10 and the choke will work just as if it were plugged directly into the main module. Also, by doing it this way, you can "edit" your midi'd sound on the main module display and have FULL editing capability just like any of the regular inputs (not just pitch and decay) in the main module. By doing this, you can use those "unused" tom rim inputs for extra cymbals or whatever...

[Louis]

Let me make a point that I haven't seen anyone else bring up.

I purchased some Hart cymbals about 3 years ago; The hi-hats and a 16" crash. A few weeks later I noticed some of the cheap Pintech black ecymbals at Guitar Center and immediately snatched them up (12", 14", 16", 22"). Comparing the two was easy because I was playing on both at the same time, using an Alesis D4.

The Harts (like the Visu-lites, as far as I can tell) mount the trigger housing somewhere between the bell and the edge of the cymbal. For a picture, go to http://www.hartdynamics.com/home/index.html and look at the main picture of the drummers, the one in the middle-right, of Matt Sorum. Look at the cymbal he's playing. The trigger-housing is about 1.5" away from the edge. It's a heavy housing.

The problem I had when playing was that unless I tightened the cymbals down to the extreme, every time I would hit the cymbal the cymbal would turn by the force of gravity, bringing the trigger-housing all the way down to exactly where I'm hitting the cymbal the hardest. The instructions for the cymbals specifically say "Avoid hitting the cymbal near the trigger as it can break". Well they weren't lying, the 16" trigger malfunctioned after about 2 weeks. By looking through the 1/4" jack, I could see the wire came off the piezo. The housing was riveted on, so I could either drill out the rivets to open the housing and re-solder the wire, or toss the cymbal. I tossed it.

The Pintechs, on the other hand, placed the piezo inside "black injected plastic" right underneath the bell, with the cable dangling straight down. No loose wires, no rotating cymbals. I could keep the cymbals tightened somewhat loosely so that they would play more naturally. The Pintechs seemed far superior for this reason alone, except that the cymbal plastic itself seemed a little less substantial than the Harts.

Unfortunately, the Pintechs had sensitivity issues with the D4. If I made them sensitive enough for delicate cymbal work, they would be crash at full power from light to medium strokes. If I made them less senstive, I couldnt do the little swells that cymbals are great for in song passages etc. I would also get xtalk from other triggers on the rack if I turned the sensitivity up. I was constantly baby-sitting them and their settings and finally got tired off it. When I got my V-Pro kit, I put the Pintechs away and haven't used them since.

Like everyone else though, I hate using the pads for cymbals, and can't wait for Roland's new cymbals to ship. I really have a lot of hope for these things.

I'm thinking of getting a couple more mounts today and putting the Pintechs up on the rack. I'll keep the Roland pads for light cymbal work, and just set up the Pintechs to do the big dramatic crashes everyone loves to do. Because I'm out of inputs on the TD-10+, I'm going to route them into the D4 again. I really miss that feeling of crashing into a cymbal, having it swing wildly and hearing that big "crrrassshhhh".

Anyway, I was this close to buying a complete set of Visu-lites from their website, until I noticed in their demo videos what kind of trigger they use. Oh no, never again. You can even see in the demo for the crash cymbal how, after each hit, it starts rotating slightly, bringing the trigger down towards the striking point, but the player keeps turning the cymbal back to its original position. Here is the link so you don't have to go looking for it: http://www.visu-lite.com/store/demos...hoke-crash.mpg

I hoped to make the point quickly, but I always seem to ramble on. Sorry

Louis

[BINARY]

Dude, that was a great response. Thank you.
I watched that video again, and you're right, he moves it back every time he hits it.
This is obviously something I would never notice having not had the same problem.

If I do go with the Visulites, I'd probably concoct some little mechanism to keep them in place

Anyway, it's something else to think about. I went to GC yesterday and the guy said a couple more weeks until they have any to try.
I'm definately going to try them out before I buy anything.

Thanks again,
BINARY

[BtnkBndt]

Aquarian cymbal springs put an end to spinning cymbals. I sure wish you would have thrown that perfectly good cymbal my way! The trigger housing on the Visu-Lites is very small. Actually its not a housing, it is a wire crimp like you see on the back of alot of stereo speaker cabinets. Not much weight there. But as I said, Aquarians solve this problem and I highly recommend them.

[sector7]

Louis,
Not buying great cymbals just because they spin?

As Btnkbndt pointed out - it's not an issue.

[BINARY]

I can see louis' point, If they spin while you're playing a live show, that's suicide - especially if they sound terrible when you hit the spot that always gravitates toward your playing area.

Not buying great cymbals just because they spin?

That's a pretty big "just because" in my opinion. I never want to be playing ANY drum where the part I'm NOT supposed to hit keeps positioning itself right in front of me. It's one more distraction I don't need.

If nothing else, it's one more thing to consider when making a purchase that I can't try out first.
As our friend beatnik pointed out, maybe the problem will be solved with the Aquarian springs, but - before yesterday, I didn't know that the spin thing was an issue at all, and now I'm aware of both problem and solution.

I'd rather know now than get them home and have some issue to deal with that I didn't anticipate. I guess fundamentally, I think that this issue should be non-existant. It's one small dilema that should be addressed before it ever reaches the customer, not something that the customer has to find a work-around for.

Thanks to everyone for all the great input so far.

BINARY



[This message has been edited by BINARY (edited March 11, 2001).]

[Louis]

Well, please remember that I bought these cymbals many years ago. It sounds like with the new trigger mount and the springs, it works swell. The springs that came with my Harts were so tight as to be unusable. I've heard you can get looser springs for more swivel action.

But (big dreamy sigh), after I made that post, I had to go to practice and stopped off at Guitar Center to buy some more cymbal mounts for my rack. I walk in and what do I see? The new BiG ReD kit Roland is selling. It's called the Session kit, right? Anyway, it had the new V-Cyms and man oh man oh MAN! These ARE the cymbals I've been waiting for forever. I played them for about 5 minutes but was totally and completely sold on them within about 60 seconds. Hit the top, it sounds like your hitting the top. Hit the side, it crashes like a crash. They swing/swivel (on a type of swivel/ball joint). They choke, quite easily I must add. That was particularly impressive. The hi-hat feels grrreeeat!! The ride cymbal handles perfectly, with no unneccesary power needed to trigger the bell. From the audience view, they look space-age. From my view they look completely natural. They seem about as heavy as what the Visu-lite's portray. I just kept saying to the clerk "Those kick ASS!! Those are Greeat!!" The last time I was this enthusiastic about any piece of equipement, it was the first time I ever played Roland's Mesh head V-drums. That was an epiphany, and so was playing the new cymbals. I may sound overly dramatic, but I can't say enough good things about these cymbals. Oh, I did remember one thing - they aren't exactly quiet, but I would say they weren't any louder than the Harts or Pintechs I've played. If apartment-quiet volume is a requirement for you, you might have to mind your big wind up crashes. It's not a problem in my situation since we play loud.

I'm going back next week and putting down the 25% they require to special order me a set. The clerks assured me that if Roland gets a special order, they will send them out with priority over just sending some stock to some store in no-where'sville. They also mentioned they had about 10 people on their waiting list, but they're only getting 2 of each cymbal (6 total), ie, definiteliy not enough to go around for the first shipment. Refusing to wait for these things any longer than I have to, I will pay the advance on the gamble that I'll get my complete set asap. One clerk mentioned that they're charging $250 for the hihats and crashes, and $300 for the ride.

Well, whatever ya choose, best of luck!!

Louis