another question about PA and Live Monitoring Applications

[captain54]

I know this probably has been answered before, but all the speaker systems that have been mentioned, JBL's, Mackie's, PM-3's...arent those mainly used for personal monitoring and to mix and monitor the actual stage volume..???

I have to believe that pumping your v-drums through the house PA and mixing in that fashion is really the way to go....

I have a set of JBL Eon G2's (without the subwoofer) and find that its easier to get a house mix by using the JBL's as simply personal monitors on stage, and relying on the house PA for the main mix...

Now I'm wondering if I should of just gotten the PM-3's personal monitor, and save myself a bunch of money over the JBL's which are kind of overkill in a way if your just playing in your home studio...

Any suggestions??

[sepdrums]

I guess it would depend on the PA being used. Most house PA's I have seen were schite. Then again the clubs I have been to and played were pretty schitty too.

There is a band I go watch a lot (great cover band - "Velveeta" - any State College area people know them....)that has a tremendous PA. Their system has to be in the 40k range. There are dual stacks of (4) 18" subs per side, stacks of JBL trapezoidal mains, a 24 ch. stage mixer, a massive main mixer, and cases of effects racks. (drool....)
In between sets the dj plays through the house PA. Mind you this is a nice club (Hot Rod Cafe in Sharon, Pennsyl.). That house PA sounds like arse. It uses EON type speakers etc...
IMHO the better the PA the better off you are... The band I mentioned above has a huge following - their music is very tight (great musicians) but their PA system pounds the crowd into remembering them.... Maybe I just like loud music, but the harder it hits, the more I like it....

I saw a band play there last weekend that used the house PA. The drummer had an almost identical dw set that the drummer in Velveeta uses. It sounded horrible. I don't know if it is all because of the speakers...maybe the house PA doesnt have compression, etc..

Geez...what the heck am I getting at here... Oh, yea... I would have to say that the smaller powered speakers are best suited for monitors or band practice. If you can afford it, dump your $$ into renting a sound pro that has serious gear....

Erik


[This message has been edited by sepdrums (edited May 24, 2001).]

[captain54]

When I did all the research on a personal PA and monitoring system for the v-drums, the JBL Eon type monitors made perfect sense...

Over the next months it became apparent to me that most of the clubs in my area that I would ever be interested in playing already have kick ass house PA systems, so it became an issue for me as to what purpose a dual JBL Eon G2 plus subwoofer type of setup would really have for me....

the biggest advantage to v-drums according to my fellow musicians, is that the stage volume of the drums is now controllable, something that is not possible with acoustic kit....

The whole issue for me is whether or not it is really worth the cash to invest $2000 plus in a personal v-drum PA setup....If the drummer is pumping out of a two high powered cabinets and a sub, and the band is pumping out of its own mediocre PA, the mix is going to sound like donkey arse....

bottom line, better for the entire band to be mixed out of one central PA, and have the personal monitor setup to be used for stage monitoring both for the drummer and the band...

Opinions?

[Tom Berry]

I use my setup for my stage monitoring only.
Its not a matter of how loud my system can be, its a matter of sound quality. Getting a balanced sound for me to feel more comfortable. I think my band mates like the balance also. I always leave it up to the sound man as to what goes up front. As I've said before - I can use my system for home monitoring if I want to, or I can have a good stage monitoring system, or if I have to or want to I can use my system as a small PA for the whole band. Try that with the PM3. Its not much bang for the buck. I would much rather have One Eon G2 or Mackie SRM450 than the PM3. But thats what I like.
Buy what makes your flicker tick.

[Zigs]

I agree with Tom. I use two mackie 450s and a 1500 sub and love it for live situations as a monitor and stage volume. I could easily take just the 2 450s or even 1 in a small place and be enough for me and my bandmates to hear me, but for me and my bandmates to get a killer sound on stage its worth the added cargo and expense. In fact I started with 1 450 playing live and it was ok. Then I added another 450 and that was better. But, when I added the sub I was there. Its just great to have that strong full sound driving you and the band on stage.

I would also prefer a single 450/G2 over the PM3s. I had both for a while and compared them side by side. The sound of one 450 was more full and the lows where a lot stronger than the PM3s. However I was impresssd with the highs on the PM3s. The two small speakers that sit up on the front of the rack really make the high hat and the snare sound nice and crisp. I was not able to get that sound out of the 450. But overall the benefits of the 450 was better. Also that bass amp on the PM3 was reeeally heavy.
An interesting combo would be the PM3s a 450/G2 and the 1500.
just my 2 cents
good luck
Zigs

[This message has been edited by Zigs (edited May 24, 2001).]

[Schmunk]

Sep, are you saying that this band has a 40kW RMS PA?

If so, then that's just stupidly large! How many people do they usually play to? My college has an 11kW PA which is just ridiculously loud and is never used at anything like full capacity, and it usually plays to 500 people or so for both bands and club nights. Admittedly, it is touring quality stuff (105-108dB/W/m, 130+dB continuous SPL, speakers) but even so.... 40kW!!

Schmunk

------------------
TD-8, Pintech pads, Pearl rack, PM-3, Behringer 802 mixer and DSP1400 UltraMizer

[rsanto]

I've used the PM-3 for a stage monitor for some time, running at a little over 50% volume for both the "mix in" of the band and the V's. Plenty loud at this level. All was going well until the tweeters fried one night, with no distortion, clipping or warning. Luckily, they were still under warantee. I now use my KC-500 on stage, which does the trick. In my experience, the PM-3 is best suited for really low volume, acoustic type gigs or home playing. I will eventually go with the JBL or Mackie for stage monitoring.
Do you guys run your band mix into the "mix in" input of the TD-8 to control the balance with the V's? There's usually not much room onstage for a mixer and complicated set up.

[Zigs]

Good question rsanto, I currently don't run the line in from the monitors to my mix in, b/c the on stage monitors are so loud I don't need to; but I thought about doing it through the mix in just to try but I was a little concerned that it may cause problms b/c it is such a strong signal coming from the monitors into the mix in. I ussually will hook up my radio or CD to the mix in but always have the signal on the radio or CD way down. Does anyone know if hooking up the cord that you would otherwise hook your unpowered monitor to (which is pushing a lot of power with it) into the mix in will be ok or will it be too much?
Thanks,
Zigs

[jg52]

The mixin is made for an unpowered, line level signal, such as a signal from the headphone output of the main board, a monitor send, cd/cassette/md player, etc. Do not chain off of a stage monitor, or run any other unshielded speaker cords, into the mixin. Run only a shielded guitar-type cord carrying a line-level signal.

Jay

[bad karma]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Schmunk:
[B]Sep, are you saying that this band has a 40kW RMS PA?

If so, then that's just stupidly large!

Uhm,....I think he ment like $40,000.00.
another abreviation for thousand is k.
then again,Eric & I are old guys.

[szvook]

If you want to find out how your TD’s sound in a live venue and basically find out the potential of the sounds on that level, get a PA system that is capable to recreate that. It does not have to big huge, it has to be able to handle a certain level and output. If getting the JBL’s or Mackies or what ever suits you, then get it !!!! – otherwise you will not know what the TD’s can do prior to any live situation. Plain and simple

The lesser systems will not give an accurate response and you will spend much time trying to figure out why my TD’ does not sound the same when you get the gig.

This has been test driven and proven time and time again.


------------------
szvook

[sepdrums]

just speculating and probably exaggerating, $40K = $40,000 as bad karma pointed out...
40,000 watts is too funny, although just think of the cab's you'd need to take advantage of running (10) 2000w amps per side...hehehehehe...

dunno, i guess i was just trying to say that for a local-schmokal band they have a serious kick arse system.

no flames required....just "shooting the schite" with ya....



erik

[This message has been edited by sepdrums (edited May 26, 2001).]

[Schmunk]

OK, fair point, sorry, didn't mean it as a flame. But just imagine if they DID have a 40kW PA....

Schmunk

------------------
TD-8, Pintech pads, Pearl rack, PM-3, Behringer 802 mixer and DSP1400 UltraMizer