V-Session - more hands on 'opinions'.

[TomLandin]

Hi all - first of all I know we have a thread on this, but it was going in a different direction., so I opted to start anew.

I just demo'd the V-Session at ProSound Center in Bloominton, IL. These are my opinions, so please take them for that alone. Overall I was not very impressed. I can still remember the first time sitting at the VPros and being blown away! These did little for me. Granted it was a store set-up, cheap headphones, one V-Cymbal wasn't even hooked up, and the sales person was a die-hard acoustic fan who didn't have much good to say about edrums.

Pros:

1) New hardware is a big improvement. A plus in the anti-slip area, and broken clamps should be a thing of the past.

2) The new V-Cymbal HiHat played and felt great. The HiHat is a must buy for me!

3) The red looked good. (But I prefer my white and blue VPros).


Cons (my opinions only guys!):

1) Way too expensive, even for VDrums. You can get a good used VPro with extras on EBay for under $3000.

2) Crash/Ride - The 3-zone ride felt and sounded terrible. In fact all the crashes and rides sounded bad. I was getting a lot of mis-triggers, and couldn't get the right bell sounds to work consistentley. I felt very frustrated, even for a drummer. I know it's the same TDW-1 card I have, but did the V-Cymbal upgrade alter some of the sounds and pad responses?? I was not impressed at all with the V-Cymbals (except the HiHat). I finally have my PD-9 ride really smoking, and I have come to enjoy the pads, the feel and rim feature. Call me old, but I really don't have a need (or money) to relearn how to play VCymbals. Plus, I do not want to give up one of my aux inputs. I have both Aux 11/12 in use, and love it the extra flexibility. having a 3-zone ride is just not that important to my playing style. So its a thumbs down for the V-Crash and V-Ride. I will not be sending my TD-10/TDW-1 in for the free upgrade. Why fix something that's not broken?

3) Rack - as I said the new clamps look like an improvement, but I have reservations about the ribbed tubing. I didn't try to loosen a clamp and move it, but if the ribbing makes set-up/tear-down more complicated, then no thanks. The finish looks great new, but I've seen how this type of finish will look after a few years of use, nicks and scratches - not a pretty sight. After 1 1/2 years, my VPro blue finish is still like new - and I move mine 2-3 times a week. And then with the tubing ribs, I see a major dust and dirt collector. The VPro tubes wipe clean in a flash, can't promise the same for the new ribbed tubing.

4) I love my 2 KD-7's, so I really don't have a need for the upright bass. Having the option would have been a nice feature.

5) Not sure the VPro Case will hold all the V-Session gear. At least with the VPro's, Roland provided a quality custom case. My case has proven it's worth over and over again!

6) Sounds - for some reason, the TD-10 with TDW-1 V-Cymbal Control just didn't sound right. I dialed up some kits I use on my VPros, and they were just not the same. Can't really put my finger on it, but something wasn't sounding the way it should. The salesmen didn't want me rebooting the unit, so I don't know if the factory defaults were way off. Most noticeable was the cymbals. I wish I had brought my M512 card in, then I could have made a one-to-one comparision.

All-in-all, the VSession did not motivate or excite me as I thought it would, even after taking into account the poor demo environment. I would recommend the V-HiHat, as it worked like I expected, and it will go a long way for minimizing wrist fatigue and strain. I came home with a better appreciation for my trusted and loyal VPros, and treated them to a couple hours of play-time!

Again, these are my opinions - you need to demo them yourselves, evaluate your pros/cons, and then make an informed desision as to where your $4500 is going. Take the time to reboot the unit, and make sure you have a good set of headphones (bring your own).

Good luck! Tom.

[DJourg]

Tom

I noticed when I demo'd the ride that odd sounds were getting in, like other crashes and splashes and chinas. Then I prssed the Instrument button and slowly played, to see what came up on the screen.

Under AUX1 or AUX2 (depending on where the connection was made) either the sounds were set to splash, china, etc. I think these were the original TD-10 settings for these triggers.

It seems to indicate that when there is a TDW-1 update for V-cymbal modification they do not automatically change the AUX sounds to a third ride cymbal sound -- they remain whatever was originally factory defaulted on the TDW-1. That means you have to go through and change all the AUX sounds to third ride sounds.

And demo sets, well, what salesman is going to go through and do all those changes, even if they are aware of this problem?

Be forewarned.

DJourg

[Mikster]

I agree with Tom Landin wholeheartedly.
When I walked into Sam Ash this past Saturday
I was thrilled to see the V Session kit
but I walked out totally bummed out
(see "Psycotherapy: Part 1" under "General
topics" if you want a feel for how exactly
I felt).
Like most everyone else I was mystified when
I first sat down at the V Pros. Unlike
many, however, I chose not to purchase as
there still seemed to be too many
inherent flaws that I just couldn't live
with ------ especially at the asking
price. Sorry to diverge.
When I first struck the crashes and ride I
thought they felt pretty good. But the
more I played them I came to the sad
realization that I didn't really like
them. They just didn't sound or play
right. Much too heavy a feel to be played
with the edge of your stick. They may
still be better than PD pads played with
the tip of the drumstick but it's close.
They're certainly far from the final
answer.
I also agree that the hi hat felt good and if
I ownwd a V Pro kit I would recommend this
upgrade.
I must also agree on the overall sound of the
kit. It just didn't sound that good and I
wasn't sure why. I thought it was my
imagination or something since it's an
upgraded TD10. Nonetheless, it just didn't
cut it for me.
Even the pads didn't feel right and I don't
know if that's possible. They seemed to
have too much give to them and were too
far from the feel of an acoustic set to
satisfy me. I started to wonder if maybe
the Hart drums have a better feel, or if
maybe the DTXtreme real heads would feel
better, or if maybe Jrcel is right in
stating that E Drums aren't acoustic
drums and that's that. End of discussion.
I tried to analyse why I had such a negative
feel and thought that maybe the thrill
with the V's was gone for me. I began
thinking that maybe all the dough I've
been putting aside would be better spent
on a great set of DW's. Or maybe a high
quality set that I could trigger. Perhaps
with a Kat off to one side, combined with
the V hats, an E kick, and maybe the
Pintec cymbals or Visualites powered by
a TD8 or the new Yamaha module.
By the way, I absolutely hated the metallic
red rack. That will be outdated in about
5-10 minutes from now.
Very confusing.
Totally confused.
In need of some serious psychotherapy.

[jrcel]

Don't feel bad, sometimes I look at my electronics, remember how much it all cost, and feel sick to my stomach. Then I realise that they're just tools, like a hammer or band saw. Sometimes I just expect too much of them. I know my acoustics like the back of my hand, I know exactly what to expect of them under a given circumstance, so I tend not to give them much thought. Just use what you think you need or like and you will be alot happier in the long run. I've noticed alot more of the "what sould I buy" thing in recent years and to be quite honest, it's hype and propaganda put out by manufacturers that's causing much of it. I remember the same aurguments about Rogers, Ludwig, Slingerland or Gretsch, and it always came out the same, if you're good, you will sound good on any quality made instrument. It's not the drums, it's the drummer. So relax and enjoy the ride.

[puttenvr]

Originally posted by feefer:
... e-drums are what they are, not what we fantasize them to be. You don't play a Rhodes (or even Giga Piano) and wring your hands when it doesn't sound exactly like a Boesendorfer.

This is the same old discussion, but as long as e-drum companies intend to give us hi-hat controllers, cymbals, pads with real heads, positional sensing and samples which used to sound as real drums, things are very confusing aren't they?

When an e-drum was meant to be a full new instrument, then drummers would use new sounds (slamming car doors f.i.) for hi-hat and play a whistles with their feet. Won't they?

The only new instrument I know is the Chapman stick for bass players: new sounds, new way of playing, et cetera. All the other instruments (e-guitars, e-bass guitars, e-pianos) are descendents of their original counterparts. Ofcourse the sound and appearance is a bit different, but more or less they resemble like the original.

And why can a guitar player use all his playing techniques on his favourite instrument, while we drummers have to make ends meet with crap cymbal pads and lame dynamics? Come on... Don't discuss things into the right direction if the equipment doesn't function. It's a shame that a company like Roland (so rich, so huge, so inventive) introduces lame products over and over again.

[Blades]

In the "for what it's worth" category:

Ask any guitarist or "keyboard" player and you'll find that they have many of the same complaints as we do. Keys are the luckiest as far as accuracy to the original is concerned, butI've known a lot of guys who have tried to use guitar to trigger midi. If they were triggering pads and such it was fine, but when they tried to trigger acoustic guitar midi sounds or similar, they have just said that the tracking absolutely sucked.

That said...I will be looking forward to any improvements that they can dish out. I may check out the hats when they come out, but probably will hold off on any of the other cymbal pads, as I'm pretty used to the pd-9 pads. I don't "excuse" the industry, but come on...look back just a few years and I see myself triggering an Alesis HR-16 through a KAT midi kiti from acoustics. It was good for sound reinforcement, but that was about it. Forget about press rolls not sounding like machine guns. And I didn't even bother trying to use the cymbals because they were PATHETIC. that was about 10 years ago. I have since gone through a set of Simmons pads, some s&s industries stinger pads hooked to a Alesis DM5. Still not acceptable. When I brought the v-drums to our first performance...everyone, including myself, was completely amazed. They still are...especially with the expansion board.

I want better electronic drums, eventually...But there is nothing about these that is holding me back. I am not Omar! or any of the other OUTSTANDING professionals who don't seem to have a problem with th v-drums.

In time...everything improves...Prices raise and lower, technology changes...hype continues. Pick what you like.

PS. There is nowhere in my general area that carries ddrum, so I could not even check them out. I certainly wouldn't have bought them sight unseen, especially considering the mp3 demos that clavia has on its site...I don't care how many years old those sounds are...not my problem...the demos sound like crap.

[puttenvr]

Originally posted by redbrick:
I don't care how many years old those sounds are...not my problem...the demos sound like crap.

Okay let's listen to the old td-7 then
For most of us it is important how old sounds are and what companies do to update them. Other people can like old sounds or not. Just a matter of taste. But actually I was talking about e-drum companies who intend to manufact serious drum instruments here.

[towerblock]

Agreed! go to http://austin.rr.com/musiciansfriend where I put up some mp3's of me messing around on my DDrums..no effects etc, but you get a better sense of them than you do from their demo's. Also go to ddrums.com and some other guys have posted mp3's of their ddrums.

Originally posted by redbrick:
In the "for what it's worth" category:

..especially considering the mp3 demos that clavia has on its site..not my problem...the demos sound like crap.

[jrcel]

Actually many payers are using slamming car doors and different sounds for things we've always taken for granted.

[szvook]

Speaking of different sounds being used for drums. I always found a portable DAT recorder, a metal stick and a junkyard collectively to be a perfect combination to find some interesting sounds to use.

------------------
szvook

[puttenvr]

Originally posted by jrcel:
Actually many payers are using slamming car doors and different sounds for things we've always taken for granted.

Doh !

[mcconaghy]

I'm just back from checking out the V-Session set at my local Sam Ash, and I'm pleasantly surprised. I didn't go in expecting a quantum leap over the V-Pros, but there definitely is an improvement there. Roland's moving in the right direction, albeit a lot slower than they probably could.
The red pads actualy looked very good, a lot darker than they seemed on the pictures. I found the rack very attractive, a dark metallic red, nowhere near as hideous as in the promo photos. Even my wife commented on how nice they looked, and she hates the colour red! Sadly they didn't have the V-Concert set there, I'd love to see the purple pads up close.
Thankfully they had set up the TD-10 properly, which made testing the new V-Cymbals a breeze. The 3-trigger ride worked like a dream, coming very close to the feel of real cymbals. The crashes were mounted a little tight, but loosening the screws gave them the inertia close to that of a real crash.
They triggered well, I was surprised I figured out the choke immediately (thanks to feefer's NAMM report!), it worked very well, and after two or three attempts I could make it sound realistic. The V-Cymbal control was definitely nopticeable on the V-Ride, the 3 sounds faded in and out of each other smoothly, and it sure felt good after all this time with the PD-9 to actually hit a cymbal bell and get a bell sound. I'll give both V-Crash and V-Ride both thumbs up, with a twiddle of my big toes for good measure. But, as DJourg said in a post a few days ago, try 'em before you buy, I happened to like the feel, some are bound not to.
I must say that, contrary to most others here, I wasn't too impressed with the hi-hat pad, I didn't like that it was static, a little movement would have done a bit more for me, but I do admit it's a step in the right direction, a lot better than the PD-7.
All in all it's not the quantum leap we had all expected, but certainly a step in the right direction. Seems like Roland has gotten their pad family complete, now all we have to do is wait for the TD-[insert random number here].
Stu

[PGann]

QUESTION:

How do the new crash and ride cymbals attach to the cymbal holder? What I'm interested in knowing is do they attach like regular cymbals (held on by the holder's wing nut?) or do they clamp on similar to the PD-7's and 9's?

[BtnkBndt]

I took them off the stands to check out the movement mechanism. From what I remmember they have a piece that slides over the original threaded rod. This has on it the piece that alows the cymbals to swing but also keeps them in the correct position so the cord doesn't get wrapped around the stand. It's very simple once you see it. It's like a wedge shape with the opposing wedge shape made into the underside of the cymbal. its all held together using the felt, washer, wing nut just like regular stands. Confused you for sure.

[PGann]

Thanks Beatnick... sounds like you do mount them with felt and wing-nut just like regular cymbals. I surmise that what you're describing is much the same as illustrated by the reverse view photos of the TD6K cymbal pads posted by HARLOCK from the French site... correct?