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I'd like advice on upcoming purchase

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  • I'd like advice on upcoming purchase

    The Situation:
    I don't have access to my acoustic kit, it's in storage at a friend's house. I live in an apartment.

    I lost a previous rehearsal space which was free (the friend's house), and no luck with a shared rental space nearby. I also like the idea of being able to practice at home rather than travel to a rehearsal space. So I decided to buy some electronic drums, finally.

    What I Need:
    This is mainly for full kit practice at home, beyond the rubber pad and pillow. I probably won't use this kit for any regular musical projects or performances.. at least for now. I certainly don't have anything against the idea in the future, once I learn more about it.

    I do care a lot about the quality of sound, and clean accurate strikes at high speeds. I've read about hot spots and machine gunning, and those seem like what I'm willing to pay a little more in order to avoid. I've also read a bunch more, about all sorts of high-end kits, various modules, and then about VSTs, which I'm sure I'll have lots of fun with. I was overwhelmed at first, but I kept coming back to the feeling I had shortly after I started my research..

    The Plan:
    Basically I've all but decided on the Roland TD-27, for several of the likely 'reasons' a well-read new customer might decide on it. (decent sound out of box, reliable quality, 18" ride, that snare, better bang for buck than TD-50, and probably more..)


    But I'm a rookie, and experience is still better than a rookie's diligent research. Also, $3k is a lot of money. So I'd like to know if anyone would talk me out of my choice? Would you tell me to do something else?

    I'm open, and not afraid to do a little mixing and matching if I can produce a more dependably accurate and realistic 'sound experience'. I understand the pads don't feel like drum heads, and that's okay. I hit the kitchen counter, leather chair, pillows, I don't care. But accurate, dependable, and responsive sound is paramount. Unregistered strikes are not okay.

    Thanks for any thoughts you can share.
    Last edited by ian s; 10-21-20, 04:40 AM.

  • #2
    Go and test drive some stuff. Play the pads, listen t the sounds - this bit is very subjective and can only be done by you.

    Download the manuals for things you're interested in.

    Weigh up features / expansion / cost etc.

    *** Never buy a module without MIDI IN ***
    Yamaha & Roland modules. DTX,TM-2, EC-10, EC10m, SP-404. Multi12. TrapKat. ControlPads. Octapad, SamplePad, Wavedrum. Handsonic. Dynacord RhythmStick. MPC. Paiste 2002/Signatures. Cajons. Djembes. Darbuka. Windsynth. MIDI Bass. Tenori-on. Zoom ARQ. Synths. Ukes.

    Comment


    • #3
      The TD-27 module was one of my options when I upgraded my kit earlier this year. I haven't played it myself, but the kit seems solid and relatively good value for the money. However, I really didn't like how it sounds after listening to several video demos. I don't know if it's just the presets, but especially the toms really did not sound good to me for that price. Of course you could use it for triggering VSTs, which it probably does very well, but it feels a bit expensive just for that purpose. I'm also a bit uncomfortable with the "cable snake" type of trigger inputs. In the end I chose 2box DrumIt Three which I think sounds much better but is a bit trickier to use, so I wouldn't recommend it for beginners.

      My point (if there is one) is basically that if you're happy with how the TD-27 sounds, it's probably a good choice for you. Triggering, build quality and general usability are something that Roland does well. Sound matters are more controversial and depend on your taste.
      Last edited by halftime; 10-21-20, 05:37 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by halftime View Post
        ... In the end I chose 2box DrumIt Three which I think sounds much better but is a bit trickier to use, so I wouldn't recommend it for beginners.

        My point (if there is one) is basically that if you're happy with how the TD-27 sounds, it's probably a good choice for you. Triggering, build quality and general usability are something that Roland does well. Sound matters are more controversial and depend on your taste.
        Agreed 100%.
        Given your requirements the TD27 is a very good set.


        PS: If I had 3K and no Drumset, I would go with https://www.drum-tec.com/atv-adrums-...um-tec-edition, an edrumin10 and EZDrummer2 (to start with). It`s not as complicated as it sounds, and you can always come here for advice.
        And just go on youtube and compare the sounds....


        Audiofront eDrumIn. Triggering mainly SD3.

        Yamaha Cymbals, drum-tec HiHat Ctl, DW PDP Drumset with Jobeky Triggers and drumtec Pro Snare. Zoom UAC-2 Interface.

        Comment


        • #5
          If you should primarily want to use VSTi, I would recommend a Roland module. These usually have better and more extensive trigger setting options for adaptation to the respective VSTi and bring somewhat better or more precise trigger results. The cheaper Roland representatives are sufficient for this. The sounds of more expensive Roland modules are also, in line with the price, marginally better. Especially when compared to VSTi. If you want to have good sounds directly from the module, I recommend 2box or ATV (in this price segment). With 2box there is the huge advantage that you can easily import your own Samlpes. That means you can also import samples / sounds from any VSTi, which makes 2box relatively unbeatable.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks so much guys, really appreciate it.

            Just to clarify a bit - what I mean by an 'accurate and realistic sound experience' is that I prioritize the correct response of triggers, to each individual strike. This is having nothing to do with the styles of the samples themselves. As far as sample sounds, do understand that VST's will take me wherever a given module will not. To be honest, of all of the higher end e-drum demos I've listened to, most of them sound quite acceptable to me as far as the on-board samples. VSTs provide more variety and can sound a lot better, but that's all fun for a rainy day.

            Regarding test driving, I totally understand the recommendation and I wish I had access to all the modules and pad combinations. However, after all my reading of others' experiences with this, seems it's just not a very realistic option for measuring my particular criteria, especially regarding multiple modules, many of which aren't carried anywhere locally. For one, as said, I don't really care what the pads feel like, and the on-board samples themselves are not very important to me, so really what I'd be testing is accurate and responsive triggering, absence of hotspots, machine gunning/unregistered strikes. From what I understand, shops' test kits can't really be trusted to be set up properly or even in some cases, in good working order, so this might possibly help or it might be a waste of time. Also, unfortunately I don't have many shops in my area. Really it's just one Guitar Center reasonably nearby, and they are extremely flaky in there. So this is why I ask for opinions from the real experts.

            Anyway, seems like I've got more research to do, in all my reading I somehow glanced past the 2Box Drumit series. Not sure how, I remember seeing that name a few times.



            Originally posted by holzi2000 View Post
            PS: If I had 3K and no Drumset, I would go with https://www.drum-tec.com/atv-adrums-...um-tec-edition, an edrumin10 and EZDrummer2 (to start with). It`s not as complicated as it sounds, and you can always come here for advice.
            That doesn't sound too complicated, I might even use SD3. (I learn quickly and tend to want to go to the top, why waste money along the way..)
            So, what is the main reason this would be your preferred setup over other similarly priced setups?
            Last edited by ian s; 10-21-20, 04:27 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ian s View Post




              That doesn't sound too complicated, I might even use SD3. (I learn quickly and tend to want to go to the top, why waste money along the way..)
              So, what is the main reason this would be your preferred setup over other similarly priced setups?
              - The Sound of SD3 compared to a TD27 is not even in the same ballpark.
              - The Triggering Performance is amazing and the setup via App or PC/Mac for the edrumin is far superiour than any LCD Display from the 80s that Roland uses. You can change veolcity curves, change where a Rimshot becomes a Rimclick and so on, everything visual and on a screen.
              - it is compatible with basically all brands. You can use Yamaha 3 Zone Cymbals on one input. Roland, ATV, Alesis Gear....
              - Have I mentioned the Sound of SD3 is beyond everything any module has to offer?
              - ATV has the best cymbals on the market (except for the Roland Digital Ride
              - No Hot Spotting
              - No Machine Gunning (SD3 has tons of samples to conquer that)

              I would go with EZD2 first, because
              1. The Core Library of EZD is very good and ready to use out of the Box.
              2. You can Cross Grade to SD3 later, and even keep the EZD Core Library or extensions you bought and use them in SD3

              BTW: I had a 2Box Module for a few weeks, and liked it. But The HiHat algorithms and the dynamic range don`t come close to the edrumin or a TD27.

              One more thing to consider: Roland TD27 Kit will sell in an instant if you want to get rid of it and still have value in 8 years.

              A Mix and Match Kit, with no real module, will have very limited interest.

              Last edited by holzi2000; 10-22-20, 02:07 AM.
              Audiofront eDrumIn. Triggering mainly SD3.

              Yamaha Cymbals, drum-tec HiHat Ctl, DW PDP Drumset with Jobeky Triggers and drumtec Pro Snare. Zoom UAC-2 Interface.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thank you holzi, I'm keen. Very interesting points to consider. Yeah, as a rookie I'll likely start with EZD2, I have to re-read a couple of articles I set aside.


                In your opinion, what makes the ATV cymbals better than others?

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would go for SD3 and miss out ezdrummer if like you say you gave the money. The core library in itself is worth it and if you need to map notes to sound then SD3 is so much better with the edrum settings. I see no point in going ezdrummer first. Just my opinion.
                  Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ian s View Post
                    Thank you holzi, I'm keen. Very interesting points to consider. Yeah, as a rookie I'll likely start with EZD2, I have to re-read a couple of articles I set aside.


                    In your opinion, what makes the ATV cymbals better than others?
                    360 triggering, more realistic feel and swing, very good sensitivity. Available in big sizes.
                    Especially the HiHat is very good.
                    Audiofront eDrumIn. Triggering mainly SD3.

                    Yamaha Cymbals, drum-tec HiHat Ctl, DW PDP Drumset with Jobeky Triggers and drumtec Pro Snare. Zoom UAC-2 Interface.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks, if I go the mix and match route, I'll definitely look closely at ATV cymbals.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The TD-27KV has a 14 inch snare drum and an 18 inch ride cymbal, both attractive features, but still you end up with 10 inch toms and a 10 inch floor tom. This makes the kit vastly unlike acoustic drums and many drummers find 10 inch playing surfaces too small. Also, consider that the 10 inch pads provided are PDX-100 with center mounted triggers, so you will experience hot spots. Plus, there is the price. With this kit, you are in the $3,000 to $4,000 USD equivalent zone and this is BEFORE TAX! To me, for that kind of money, the TD-27KV does not provide enough of the basic sizes I want from a kit and of course there is the hot spot issue. Minimally then, I'd be looking elsewhere for the pads. The eDRUMin / Drum-tec ATV solution seems like a better approach and I'd consider other solutions, too.

                        Welcome to the world of e-drums! It can be a lot of fun yet it is also quite frustrating at times, because basic things easy to get with acoustic drums can be prohibitively expensive or unavailable in the e-drum world.
                        Last edited by TangTheHump; 10-24-20, 02:52 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thank you! Those are great points and make a difference. I've been reading about eDRUMin and now I'm wondering if I even need a module at all.

                          It seems like I could just get the pads and cymbals, and a couple of eDRUMin units, and plug everything into a laptop with a decent DAW + VST

                          Am I missing something here? What does a module provide that I can't get from a DAW + VST?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ian s View Post
                            Thank you! Those are great points and make a difference. I've been reading about eDRUMin and now I'm wondering if I even need a module at all.

                            It seems like I could just get the pads and cymbals, and a couple of eDRUMin units, and plug everything into a laptop with a decent DAW + VST

                            Am I missing something here? What does a module provide that I can't get from a DAW + VST?
                            The only thing a module brings is the speed you can turn on and go. I have a td30 and I haven’t played using the internal sounds now for a couple of years. I used to a bit but every time I did the internal sounds disappointed me so much. Of course if you take the kit out live then internal sounds are much more important.
                            Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ian s View Post

                              Am I missing something here? What does a module provide that I can't get from a DAW + VST?
                              Modules, as mkok has said, are pretty good for a plug and play solution. It just depends how fussy you are, and how you intend to use your kit. You might be quite happy with a TD27 kit. I would really make an effort to go and play on one if you can first though. A DAW+VST generally requires you to have a computer that can run all that software too. This is just an additional step and an additional place for things to go wrong. There's also the issue of latency as well as a lot of tweaking to make sure the trigger response from the pads actually translates to good sounds out of your VST. None of these are insurmountable, but it's not exactly plug and play like a module is.

                              Having purchased an eDrumin10, I can recommend this. It is an awesome device for triggering VST. I can't recommend it enough. There are lots and lots of options though, so have a good look around and do as much reading as you can before you pull the trigger. For example, here's just a few different options that you might consider if you decide to go down the VST Route :

                              1. ATV EXS5 pad set from Drum-tec.com which comes with ATV cymbals. Ask them to add an 18" ride (or swap with the 16") and you've got a 5 piece kit, hi hat, ride, 2 crashes. You can then buy an eDrumin10, and buy Superior Drummer 3.0 and you've got a pretty decent kit for about USD2800 that has great triggering, great cymbals and great samples from SD 3.0.

                              2. Jobeky manufacture shell packs and drum kits. You can get a pretty nice looking acoustic shell pack with mesh heads and triggers. Similarly, there are others that do something similar e.g. AEHybrid drums. Get an ATV Hi Hat and Ride, and then use Yamaha cymbals for the rest, and go for the eDrumin10. Again, this will set you back around USD3000 altogether as well.

                              3. You could go DIY and buy a used drum set on eBay for about USD100-200, buy some drop-in triggers from Jobeky, R-drums, AEHybrid Drums, UFO drums and others, and then put them together yourself. You'll still need to get cymbals, mesh heads, and various other bits and pieces, as well as a trigger box (eDrumin) and the VST software. This route is a bit harder and perhaps more risk of having technical problems, but I think will probably end up being cheaper.



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