Announcement

Collapse

Products Posting Guidelines

PRODUCT DISCUSSION ONLY! DO NOT POST TECHNICAL QUESTIONS!

Having issues? Please visit our Forum Talk section for answers to frequently asked questions.

See more
See less

A question for those who have moved from TD50 (and sacrificed PS and digital pads)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • A question for those who have moved from TD50 (and sacrificed PS and digital pads)

    I am getting back into e-drumming after a break and I am looking to get a new module and kit in the not-too-distant future (but probably in the new year). I had thought that this might be a simple as choosing the latest Roland module and just deciding between the K or KV pad choices, but it seems things have moved on. ATV, Mimic, Jobeky, Drum-Tec - a few more serious options, which is good and healthy but it also means I have to make choices. I am terrible at making choices.

    It seems to me that the two main sacrifices one has to make if opting for a non-Roland module are: (i) positional sensing; and (ii) digital pads. My belief is that both of these ultimately enable more sensitivity and musical expressiveness. I am looking for opinions, from those who have made the move from a TD50 to the Mimic (or other) whether you really noticed and missed PS and the nuances made possible by the digital pads. Was it really noticeable? Did you feel that you lost something? Or, not so much?

  • #2
    I can't comment as someone who's "left behind" the TD-50 for a Mimic, but I've got both of them and have a lot of experience using each of them. Personally, I don't miss the positional sensing on the Mimic - it's nice to have on the 50 but I often reinforce snare sounds with samples on the 50 anyway so I don't really bother with the full "benefits" of them anyway. If I was using it with a VST that was really realistic, maybe that'd mean I'd miss it on the Mimic but the quality of the sounds and overall triggering is good enough on the Mimic to make up for it. Using the ATV ride with the Mimic makes up for the playing feel and, again, I don't utilise the positional sensing enough on the 50's ride to really mind too much.

    The only real thing I "miss" when I use the Mimic is proper cross-stick detction like on the digital snare - I use a BT-1 to get around this but it's not quite as good. It's a good enough replacement though and does still work well overall. If the snare you use has good triggering (and specifically, good rim triggering) you can get all the articulations with this setup - head, rim click, rim shot on the snare pad, cross-stick on the BT-1. I might do a direct comparison video on the two at some point.

    Hope that helps, despite not being quite an exact fit for what you were asking. It's going to depend on your musical application - if PS is really important to you, you might not be able to do without it. But I've not felt that strongly about it, as of yet.
    Last edited by Pulsc; 09-21-20, 02:10 PM.
    The eDrum Workshop | YouTube

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks, Pulsc.

      By coincidence, I’d just been watching some of your YouTube videos before reading this. If you might indulge me: desert island - are you taking your TD50 with digi pads or Mimic?

      Comment


      • #4
        Ouch, that's a tough one.

        I love the sounds on the Mimic and the playability is amazing, but I think I do have a soft spot for the 50 as a package with the pads. I really enjoy sculpting sounds and you can do that on both to some degree, but of course it's a completely different approach on the Roland. Despite the fidelity not being as high, there's something really satisfying about it.

        Ask me again on another day and I'd likely say the opposite! I'm building kits on the 50 at the moment, when I start on my next Mimic pack, I'll probably favour it
        The eDrum Workshop | YouTube

        Comment


        • #5
          Notice TD-50 module 3/4 lifetime is gone would be harder to sell because of td27 digital pack and newer flagship. Remember many still like td30 over TD50 because the sound cover much more tone/timbre.I doubt anyone will prefer to buy used td-50 over newer flagship\ td27 unless significant price drop.The main sale point on td50 was digital trigger but it's on td27 now, the value of td50 decreased already. 2300$ td27 digital pack vs td50 single module. Used Td27 digital pack lower than 2000$.
          Last edited by Chris K; 09-24-20, 10:48 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Chris K View Post
            Used Td27 digital pack lower than 2000$.
            You're already seeing 2nd hand TD27 digital packs!?!

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks, Chris.

              Yes, I was just using the TD50 as an example because I know Pulsc has one - but for me the choice is between a TD27 and a Mimic. Or, perhaps more specifically, buying the VAD506 and getting all the new cymbals and digi pads etc on the one hand and buying a Mimic with ATV /Jobeky kit and ATV /Jobeky cymbals on the other hand. I’m terrible at making choices at the best of times, but when I’m spending thousands of pounds I’m even worse and feel compelled to research it to the max.

              I think I’m hovering around the VAD option on the basis that I get digi pads and PS and if I want better sounds I can use a VST later and if I want to change shells (I’m
              not a huge fan of the VAD look) I can pick up a Jobeky shell pack later too. The VAD route, I don’t think I’m missing any technologies at least.

              If anyone has any opinions on those two choices, I’d be grateful to hear them.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Puffincake View Post
                I think I'm hovering around the VAD option on the basis that I get digi pads and PS, and if I want better sounds, I can use a VST later; and if I want to change shells (I'm not a huge fan of the VAD look), I can pick up a Jobeky shell pack later, too. The VAD route, I don't think I'm missing any technologies at least. If anyone has any opinions on those two choices (Ed: Mimic with ATV /Jobeky pads and cymbals versus VAD 506), I'd be grateful to hear them.
                Hmm. Not an easy choice.

                The VAD 506 is a complete kit and you'll do less work getting it together and configuring it for playability. Plus, as you've pointed out, you get the digital pads and positional sensing. There are some negatives, though. The digital pads lock you into a Roland module. The VAD kits only have positional sensing on snare drum and ride cymbal. The TD-27 module sounds synthetic, uses an all plastic build, and utilizes a cable snake and I/O mounted on the bottom of the module (a totally inconvenient place for the I/O). VAD pads are available in limited sizes: 10 RT, 12 RT, and 14 FT. No 16 inch VAD floor tom. No 14 inch VAD snare. No 14 inch hi-hats. Overall though, with VAD 506, you get a low risk, well integrated kit that is plug-and-play out of the box, has easy access to support, and retains resale value.

                The Mimic / ATV / Jobeky solution requires a lot more work getting the kit together and configuring it for playability. There is also more risk, because you're dealing with three manufactures, and one or more retailers / suppliers. Adding to the risk, Jobeky seems to be a sole proprietorship and ATV seems to be having financial difficulties. That said, sonically, a Mimic based kit blows away any of the VAD kits.

                It's difficult to say which module (Mimic or TD-27) offers more flexibility. It depends on what kind of flexibility you need.

                For professional build and features for professional environments (metal chassis and metal case, all I/O bolted to the chassis, individual inputs instead of cable snake, individual outputs, independent house and foldback mixes, etc.), the Mimic is the obvious choice.

                For sound shaping, the two modules offer different tools. The Mimic is more like a recording studio and provides multiple microphone sources for each instrument. The TD-27 is more like modeled drums (because it uses an architecture that includes sampling and modeling approaches), so you can adjust properties like shell type, cymbal thickness, and other drum-like parameters, and the TD-27 has multiple effects engines with complex effects routing.

                A big plus with ATV and Jobeky pads / cymbals is these work with any modern module whereas the Roland digital pads can only be used with a Roland module. Also, with ATV / Jobeky, you can get drums and cymbals in a wider range of sizes, such as 16 inch floor tom and 14 inch hi-hats.

                Mimic / ATV / Jobeky pluses are: best sounds currently available in a module, professional build, features and I/O to support professional environments, pads / cymbals are compatible with any module and can be obtained in a larger range of sizes.

                Mimic / ATV / Jobeky negatives are: higher risk purchase due to involvement of multiple parties, likely much more work and more waiting to get the kit together, no positional sensing, no single source for support, and lower resale value than VAD 506. (i.e. The Roland kit will hold its value much better than a DIY kit, even when the DIY kit uses all professional components.)

                As per my first comment, this is a tough choice.

                For me, it comes down to the better sounds, professional build, professional environment features (separate trigger inputs, etc.), and greater availability of drum and cymbal sizes in the Mimic / ATV / Jobeky kit versus the less risky, one-stop-shop, plug-and-play convenience of the VAD 506 kit. Essentially, this comes down to one's tolerance for risk. Another factor is the proprietary pads of the VAD 506, because if in future you replace the TD-27 with a non-Roland module, this means you must replace the digital snare and digital ride too. So while the VAD 506 is least risky initially, it may become more risky and costly as time goes on.

                Sorry for this non-definitive answer, but it's not easy to pick between these two! Hope this feedback helps with your own analysis.
                Last edited by TangTheHump; 09-28-20, 02:52 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  QUOTE
                  the VAD506 does come with a 14in digital snare

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by yourbuddyjames View Post
                    The VAD506 does come with a 14 inch digital snare.
                    Yes, and that's a problem, because there is no universally compatible, 14 inch, analog snare option for customers who do not want to be locked into a Roland module. Ditto for the 18 inch digital ride; you'll lose this if you switch away from a Roland module. And for customers considering acoustic sizes to go with existing non-Roland modules, currently, Roland has no snare and ride options.
                    Last edited by TangTheHump; 09-28-20, 02:57 PM.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X