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Rim shot irregularities

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  • Rim shot irregularities

    Any suggestions on fine tuning rim triggers on the snare to sound more realistic? I can't seem to get rim shots to sound authentic when playing softer songs. They sometimes sound like the snare and sometimes like the rim. Usually they are just too harsh, despite the many adjustments I've already tried.
    TD-20, HK LUCAS PA

  • #2
    Originally posted by Marvin Mason:
    They sometimes sound like the snare and sometimes like the rim.
    First, do you get a proper (100 percent) rim shot on an acoustic snare every time? I sometimes don't.

    And realize: the acoustic drum gives every difference in playing technique you put in to it. E-drums always are limited by the sensitivity, treshold, dynamic levels and the separation between drumhead edge sound and rim sound.

    So, if you already messed around with all trigger settings I think there's not much to do about it. Just raising the RIM level will decrease the snare sound, raising the SNARE level will decrease the RIM sound. Raising the RIM sensitivity will cause unwanted rim triggers, etc.

    So, try to set the levels at a 50-50 base, try to play the best rim shots you've played (practice) and live with the fact that it perhaps never will be perfect. Just like our guitar player will play 100 percent perfect chords neither.
    Robert

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    • #3
      Marvin, What system (module, triggers, etc.) are you using? Are you talking about rimshots where you hit both the head and rim simultaneously, just hiiting the rim alone, or cross-sticking. IMHO none of them work that well with the v drums in comparison to a's. Its just one of the weak points of v drums. I used to hit a rimshot (rim and head) on 2 and 4 of almost every hard rock song on my acoustic snare and very rarely missed. It just became second nature. Since switching almost exclusively to v drums I just don't play like that any more and hit the snare head only on two and four. I just found an intense snare sound that I like (Real deal on the TD-10 x) and pretty much stick with that. I still have problems with rim only trigger reliability and cross-sticking, so I pretty much avoid those, because too many weird things happen like you described in your post. FYI Putt, when I cross-stick on an acoustic snare, I get the right sound 99.9% of the time vs. about 80% with the v drum. That just doesn't work for me in a live gigging environment. Life is full of compromises dude!

      [This message has been edited by Bagman (edited January 25, 2002).]

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      • #4
        Although the X-stick feature added with the TDW-1 was a huge step ahead is not perfect at all.
        I'm still having problems to adjust the x-stick threshold. If I set it too high I trigger snare sounds when trying to play x-stick. And if I set it too low I keep triggering the x-stick sound. I can't find the *hot spot* where I can play both sounds comfortably.
        On the other hand I do not have problems with rim-shots, just had to correct my left hand position a bit and snare height to avoid hitting the rim.

        Boismenu.

        [This message has been edited by boismenu (edited January 25, 2002).]

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        • #5
          Hey whats up-Try doing alot of tweeking in your percussion group sounds-Ive found some pretty cool rim shot sounds there-Try the claves and the wood blocks-and even try a diffrent drum sound-like congos-(tuned really low)-and so on-Youll be pleased-Also turn that volume up on that trigger-laters

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          • #6
            shut the cross-stick sound off on your snare. I found it was way to unreliable. Assign a cross-stick sound to an aux pad if you have one. When play rimshots on an acoustic snare I hit both head and rim simultaneously, however on the the v's when I want a rimshot I focus on hitting the rim only.

            ------------------
            -Drumlogic, V-session, Visulite cymbals, (2)Mackie srm-450, bbe 482 sonic maximizer, spd-20
            -Drumlogic, V-session, Visulite/roland cymbals, (2)Mackie srm-450's, bbe 482 sonic maximizer,

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            • #7
              Thanks for the tips. Perhaps I'm expecting too much from electronic drums. After all, Roland needs something to improve upon for the next version of V-Drums!
              TD-20, HK LUCAS PA

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              • #8
                Marvin, you were talking about rim shots and not x-sticks, weren't you?

                Or do you mean x-stick playing as used in ballads?
                Robert

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by puttenvr:
                  Marvin, you were talking about rim shots and not x-sticks, weren't you?

                  Or do you mean x-stick playing as used in ballads?
                  I was referring to rim shots, however, I do have a problem with x-stick playing too. The x-stick problem seems to be that the PD-120 sometimes triggers the rim and sometimes the snare head. I'm x-sticking consistently but not getting consistent results.
                  TD-20, HK LUCAS PA

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                  • #10
                    Okay, but for x-sticking you need to put both sides of the stick on the PD-120 RIM (see TDW-1 manual) By doing this you don't touch the snare head at all.
                    Robert

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by puttenvr:
                      Okay, but for x-sticking you need to put both sides of the stick on the PD-120 RIM (see TDW-1 manual) By doing this you don't touch the snare head at all.
                      I've been following the instructions in the manual on this topic. Seems that it is still triggering the snare head, though. Even with the "Nashville" kit setting, which I consider to be pretty tolerant of sloppy play.
                      TD-20, HK LUCAS PA

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                      • #12
                        I try to play the x-sticks correctly myself but still wind up triggering rimshots or snare sounds...

                        I wonder if this will all work better with an external sampler....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have very little problem with the cross fade feature on snare input. Here are a few ideas that help me achive this. First is pick a spot and keep it. The pivot point and the strike point. I actual set the stick so it comes down in the same place every time, the stick comes down and pivots on the rim at a lug so it is easy to keep in the same spot. Next play with the settings adjust the cross stick switching. Make sure you play the croos stick at live volumes and energy, what I found was that at practice I hit softer then I do live so I would get the rim shot sound and not the cross stick sound when playing live. I upped the switch over so I was happy and did not get a lot of cross stick sound from bumping the snare pad. If you still have problems you can always copy a kit and take the cross stick off so you don't mistakenly trigger cross stick sounds on songs you don't use it.

                          ------------------
                          Ted H.
                          www.tocsinrocks.com
                          Ted H.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hey Marvin

                            Just my 0.02...and I know that banding around 'setting figures' is sorta frowned upon...but I FEEL that my rim works just perfectly now.

                            I've never had it false trigger. If I want the 'stick' sound I can get it from very quiet to very loud 100%, and then I can get a medium loud to very loud 'Rim Shot' sound.

                            I have the XStick Threshold at 110
                            and the Rim sensitivity at 8.

                            I play the 'stick' sound as Rolands says i.e. drumstick laying flat with both ends on the black rubber rim, and my hand in the middle not touching anything and by lifting only the striking end I can control perfectly my 'stick' shots.

                            For a 'Rim shot' I just strike the rim with the SHOULDER of the stick (just like Feefer) and quite hard and it gives me perfect shots everytime.

                            I hope the figures work for you too. I know that every time I've had to hard reset my TD-10 I've put these figures straight back in and it works every time.

                            Maverick

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