Announcement

Collapse

Products Posting Guidelines

PRODUCT DISCUSSION ONLY! DO NOT POST TECHNICAL QUESTIONS!

If you cannot post, please visit our Forum Talk forum for answers to more frequently asked questions.

Is your post missing? Please read forum descriptions & guidelines within before posting in the wrong forum.

See more
See less

Feel of mesh heads vs acoustic.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Feel of mesh heads vs acoustic.

    I played drums, both acoustic and electronic like 10 years or so ago and recently got back into it. I remember I had a difficult time going over to acoustic after only playing electronic due to the trampoline effect of mesh heads.

    I'm trying to remember the feel of acoustic heads but it was a long time ago.

    I want to have an as close to acoustic feel practice setup at home. Right now I have a modified gibraltar bass drum practice pad, a yamaha electronic hihat (which I use as a practice pad) and an acoustic snare with a mesh head and a dampening pad under the mesh to reduce the bounce. The dampening pad works really great for reducing the bounce and I really have to work more.

    I just changed from the dampened mesh head to just a mesh head (drum tec real feel) and I find it is a bit more bouncy but most of all it doesn't feel as solid. It feels kind of light, like not hitting anything after being used to the pad under the mesh head. The stick sort of sinks in much more. The dampening is really soft and not bouncy so it lets the stick sink in a little but not as much. The disadvantage of the pad is that you feel like you are hitting something but the advantage is that the bounce is just right (at least as far as I can remember).

    Is this something you guys feel as well of mesh vs acoustic or is it just me being used to the dampening making it more solid and less bouncy?

    What is the difference in terms of feel vs an acoustic head, is it a more hard surface that doesn't let the stick sink in as much or is it the same feel but only less bounce?

    I have a hard time deciding which surface I should practice with because I want to get back to playing acoustic drums and if I have an audition or something with a band I will suck on acoustics and not get the gig.

    I don't think I will have a practice room so I can practice acoustic drums other than joining a band. A little catch 22.

    So basically what I'm asking is if someone who plays both could describe the difference in terms of how solid it feels. I understand that mesh is more bouncy but is there any more difference?

    I don't have access to an acoustic kit so I can try.

    I also ordered an aquarian superpad which I've read feels very realistic.

  • #2
    Whoops, wrong part of the forum. Can admin move it to general topics or something like that?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by frankzappa View Post
      I played drums, both acoustic and electronic like 10 years or so ago and recently got back into it.
      what I'm asking is if someone who plays both could describe the difference in terms of how solid it feels. I understand that mesh is more bouncy
      but is there any more difference? I don't have access to an acoustic kit so I can try.
      i once took weekly drum lessons just so i could play acoustic (could not do it for 5 yrs one time..)
      the solidity? of mylar heads, aha well, a 14" snare feels more 'solid' than a 14" floortom (head tension) and a 10" tom different from a 16"
      but mylar single ply would also have some 'give' on impact, linked to size.. any pad with 'a surface' underneath won't feel the same, and in reality
      nothing else does..
      i use a taped 7" moongel workout pad, for 'toms' feel.. feels very close.. a 13" (or 14) real feel mesh snare (with double or single folded towel)
      and in between those.. i think i'm pretty close to mylar .. i play acoustic 3x a week, electronic whenever i feel like it..
      do you play 'every' snare backbeat with a rimshot ?
      because that's a 'difference' on acoustic drums too, stick angle/ stick depth/ placement on a metal rim (not rubber) with consistent sound..
      -and it's not the same with a mesh head and a metal hoop- .. if you don't play backbeat rimshots, then that's a lot easier ..
      the 14" digital snare is very 'real' with rimshots/ position of playing, also.. 'kinetic feedback' (or bounce) on mylar head is 50% of impact force,
      and on mesh heads it's 100% of input force (what you get back) this will be a difference with single stroke (speed) and double stroke 'ease'
      dynamics on acoustic, you need to adjust that too again (the range)
      if your body 'remembers' it again, it's easy to play electronic the same way.. as you play acoustic (only everything plays easier) ..but you can keep it
      'steady' ..it's harder to keep it, when you only know mesh and rubber .. (imo) then you 'should' also practice with more playing resistance (on the pads)
      this is just my opinion..


      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ericdrumz View Post
        i once took weekly drum lessons just so i could play acoustic (could not do it for 5 yrs one time..)
        the solidity? of mylar heads, aha well, a 14" snare feels more 'solid' than a 14" floortom (head tension) and a 10" tom different from a 16"
        but mylar single ply would also have some 'give' on impact, linked to size.. any pad with 'a surface' underneath won't feel the same, and in reality
        nothing else does..
        i use a taped 7" moongel workout pad, for 'toms' feel.. feels very close.. a 13" (or 14) real feel mesh snare (with double or single folded towel)
        and in between those.. i think i'm pretty close to mylar .. i play acoustic 3x a week, electronic whenever i feel like it..
        do you play 'every' snare backbeat with a rimshot ?
        because that's a 'difference' on acoustic drums too, stick angle/ stick depth/ placement on a metal rim (not rubber) with consistent sound..
        -and it's not the same with a mesh head and a metal hoop- .. if you don't play backbeat rimshots, then that's a lot easier ..
        the 14" digital snare is very 'real' with rimshots/ position of playing, also.. 'kinetic feedback' (or bounce) on mylar head is 50% of impact force,
        and on mesh heads it's 100% of input force (what you get back) this will be a difference with single stroke (speed) and double stroke 'ease'
        dynamics on acoustic, you need to adjust that too again (the range)
        if your body 'remembers' it again, it's easy to play electronic the same way.. as you play acoustic (only everything plays easier) ..but you can keep it
        'steady' ..it's harder to keep it, when you only know mesh and rubber .. (imo) then you 'should' also practice with more playing resistance (on the pads)
        this is just my opinion..

        Thanks for the input. By solid I mean in general for instance a snare mesh vs a snare mylar similarly tuned. I feel as I'm hitting almost nothing with a mesh head while on a pad I feel too much like hitting something heavy. I'm thinking since a mylar head has more mass that accelerates on impact and also the air pressure stopping it, it would feel more solid but it's hard to remember the difference in feel since it was a long time ago. I just know that it definitely feels more bouncy.

        Yeah I remember a floor tom feeling pretty much like a moongel pad, like no bounce at all.

        I play rim shots on everything other than ghost notes but not much to do about that, it's simply too loud to remove the rubber and as you say it will still not be the same.

        I have a moongel type surface under the mesh head which really dampens it and gives it much less bounce, no trampoline whatsoever. I think it's maybe slighly less bounce than an acoustic snare. However it feels much more solid, somewhere between a practice pad and a mesh head. I'm worried that maybe I will get used to an unrealistic surface. It feels great, I like it much more than just the mesh head.

        I realise this is kind of a pointless thread, describing the difference in words is hard.

        Comment


        • #5
          I replaced the tuning screws on my snare because the old ones were really bad. Turns out I was just unable to tune the mesh head tight enough with the old screws because they were binding. I replaced them with high quality ones and oiled them and added nylon washers. Now they are very smooth and I can tension the head much tighter. Feels much better now. Pretty much like a mylar head although with more bounce. I'll try some kind of light foam inside, maybe that will reduce the bounce.

          Comment


          • #6
            I was talking about this the other day with another long-time pro. We came to the conclusion that perceived difference seems to be more about experience.

            For someone like me that’s been playing since the mid 70’s, I don’t really “notice” the difference when I swap to acoustics. In fact, I just recently played another guy’s a-kit, and I did not feel at all like I was in foreign territory.

            However, I would say a lot of this comes from the techniques one may have learned over the years. In my case, I did a lot of drum corp training, so much of my playing relies on wrist/finger strength and control. I don’t rely on head response a lot.

            So, the other end of the rainbow we discussed was that it seems the lesser the formal training experience, the more one notices the difference between mesh bounce and acoustic rigidity.

            I would also tend to say music genre will play into this perception. After all, if you’re playing some old school jazz, it’s likely one would rely more heavily on sticking such as drags and buzz rolls. If a mesh head is too lose in such a situation, one definitely would notice out-of-timing response, where Mylar will be more rigid.

            To me, that is the summary of the topic... acoustic heads have a more rigid response, while mesh is literally like a small tight trampoline... and to different sticking techniques. It will really all come down to your tension and personal playing technique, IMO.
            Alan
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            website | youtube | facebook | group | newsletter | message | recommendations

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Alan VEX View Post
              I was talking about this the other day with another long-time pro. We came to the conclusion that perceived difference seems to be more about experience.

              For someone like me that’s been playing since the mid 70’s, I don’t really “notice” the difference when I swap to acoustics. In fact, I just recently played another guy’s a-kit, and I did not feel at all like I was in foreign territory.

              However, I would say a lot of this comes from the techniques one may have learned over the years. In my case, I did a lot of drum corp training, so much of my playing relies on wrist/finger strength and control. I don’t rely on head response a lot.

              So, the other end of the rainbow we discussed was that it seems the lesser the formal training experience, the more one notices the difference between mesh bounce and acoustic rigidity.

              I would also tend to say music genre will play into this perception. After all, if you’re playing some old school jazz, it’s likely one would rely more heavily on sticking such as drags and buzz rolls. If a mesh head is too lose in such a situation, one definitely would notice out-of-timing response, where Mylar will be more rigid.

              To me, that is the summary of the topic... acoustic heads have a more rigid response, while mesh is literally like a small tight trampoline... and to different sticking techniques. It will really all come down to your tension and personal playing technique, IMO.
              The thing you say about technique is very true. I use a marching technique now and have had formal training. I switched to acoustic before I had training and used bad technique, I think this may be the reason I had a hard time. It should be less of a problem now because I play all unaccented rudiments as free strokes, even doubles. Back then I may have buzzed them.

              I have a drum tec real feel on my prectice snare now but I have eight cones of rigid foam under it spaced apart evenly. It definitely has a much tighter, more rigid response. It feels as I remember mylar but of course a bit more bouncy but the trampoline feeling is almost gone. Only thing is the light strokes keep on bouncing much longer than a mylar head.
              Last edited by frankzappa; 05-15-20, 04:23 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                drum corp training, yes they know what it's about..
                'good technique' is important.. if you played acoustic a long time that's
                also different from starting out on mesh .. that would not be good..
                but still, when i only had mesh heads for 5 years.. the 'best' pad i had was that 7" r-tom pad..

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ericdrumz View Post
                  also different from starting out on mesh .. that would not be good..
                  Good point.
                  Alan
                  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  website | youtube | facebook | group | newsletter | message | recommendations

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ericdrumz View Post
                    drum corp training, yes they know what it's about..
                    'good technique' is important.. if you played acoustic a long time that's
                    also different from starting out on mesh .. that would not be good..
                    but still, when i only had mesh heads for 5 years.. the 'best' pad i had was that 7" r-tom pad..
                    I have never actually practiced on low rebound surfaces. I took some lessons from bill bachmann where I learned the free stroke technique. After mastering that technique you get much more bounce even if the surface is very low rebound. Somehow you still get plenty of bounce to do anything because your hands/fingers are trained to not be in the way of the stick.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Alan VEX View Post

                      Good point.
                      Yeah that's what I did back in the day. Now I try to practice on several surfaces, a real feel pad, a drum tec mesh and I have also ordered an aquarian superpad which is supposed to be good.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        One word: Pillows.

                        If you're using the Moeller method, then yea... mesh and mylar are two very different worlds.
                        Alan
                        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        website | youtube | facebook | group | newsletter | message | recommendations

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Funny you bring up Moeller. I've been working on stick technique. My favorite advice was from Nate Smith - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XseHOls2F5A - in the comments several people said to just say no to Moeller

                          I'm not seeing a big difference between my practice pad and my 3 ply mesh when working on rudiments.
                          Last edited by dsteinschneider; 05-15-20, 09:49 PM.
                          Ludwig Accent 5 piece kit | UFO Drums ebridges, 3 ply mesh heads and rim protectors | Yamaha PCY135 on Ludwig stand with DIY hall effect sensor | Yamaha PCY155 ride | DIY Pintech 2 zone crashes with Goedrums piezo's - Myrk membranes| MegaDrum 32 input | eDrumin | Cantabile VST host | Superior Drummer 2 and Jamstix kits | Alto TS115a monitors

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            yeah, pillows : ) but then i thought i had to 'invest' in my playing so i bought an rtom 7" workout pad.. however..
                            if you put a layer of tape on that, you'll be amazed how close it feels to a mylar tom (honest)
                            if you can play all 'your' rudiments on that (fast) then you know mylar won't be a problem..
                            also, put a towel on 13/14 mesh, can you still play double strokes ? fold it double, still ?
                            can you play an even double stroke roll from 'slow doubles' to fast, on your thigh ? ..anyway..
                            i do think your fingers helping the stick (finger control) are important on mylar heads .. and less so on mesh..
                            moeller, to me that's another 'step' in dynamics, and sometimes helps with 'executing' patterns ..

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X