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Looking for a module that easily supports 2-3 separate triple-zone cymbals

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  • Looking for a module that easily supports 2-3 separate triple-zone cymbals

    Hey there! New guy here, not super experience with edrums, so I'm looking for some collective wisdom. I searched the forum to the best of my ability but didn't seem to find an exact answer on this. I'm looking to get into a high-end edrum kit to use almost exclusively with SD3 for tracking and production purposes. After scouring the net looking for the best options, I love what I'm seeing from ATV - very premium look, great reviews, great sizes and, most importantly to me, ALL of their cymbals are triple-zone. However, their aD5 module doesn't support triple zone pads except for one ride - a serious, serious oversight to me. It also doesn't seem to work with their cross-stick snare sensor, forcing you to use a cross-stick button. Why make a module that doesn't fully support your own pads? It was a very frustrating discovery.

    So my problem is this - given the power and depth of sampling in SD3, I want to take full advantage of it. I come from a jazz/fusion background and am very used to playing with 2 rides on my kit, one left, one right. I'm trying to figure out the best system to get a full set of ATV pads into SD3, with all cymbals acting as full triple-zone so that I can assign all of the different articulations properly. I only play with 3 cymbals, and the ATV pads each have 2 jacks to get the full triple-zone effect. I'd even be happy with just the two rides as triple-zone and the crash as a standard dual-zone, but I cannot find a module on the market that seems to be able to do this. As a side note, I'd really like a dedicated cross-stick triggering function as well with no need to hit a button. But that's a separate issue.

    I know that the Roland TD50 has 3 USB inputs for the new digital ride and snare, but that gets crazy expensive pretty quickly. I'm happy to shell out some serious dough but $8k+ is just crazy to me. How they charge literally double any other premium manufacturer is kind of baffling.

    So - any advice? What's the best way of getting this properly set up to work with SD3? Much thanks in advance!

  • #2
    Hi!

    maybe this is not an option...but DrumIt Three and Five MK2 Do actually support 3 zone cymbal inputs for 3 channels. I currently running 2x Roland CY-13R and one CY-15R on 3 zones against my MKII.

    The snare is more challenging to create three zones...but doing it the Yamaha way...which consists of one piezo and two edge switches...to create a 3 zone snare - this also works on 2box.. (This could also be achieved by using a Three piezos and 2 Keith Raper Circuits)

    On the downside is maybe the midi implementation on 2box which is using native midi..instead of usb midi...but most of the latency won’t come from this part of the chain.

    edrumin and MegaDrum could also solve the case.

    Best Regards

    Anders / www.zourman.com

    Pearl CrystalBeat and Sonor Safari, Roland CY-14/13R/15R/12CR,RT-10/30,BT-1,VH-11/12/13 & KD-10,Dingbat,Triggera D14, D11, ATV AD-h14, 120MHz MegaDRUM with PS board, 2box 3/5/5MKII, dd4SE, Yamaha DTX502, Addictive Drums 2.1.11. All ADpaks, Microsoft Surface PRO, Macbook, Pearl Throne Thumper, Zourman HH & Ride Conv Kit www.zourman.com

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    • #3
      "Looking for a module that easily supports 2-3 separate triple-zone cymbals"

      A Yamaha DTX. 3-zone drum pads as well.
      *** Never buy a module without MIDI IN ***
      Yamaha & Roland modules. DTX,TM-2, EC-10, EC10m, SP-404. Multi12. TrapKat. ControlPads. Octapad, SamplePad, Wavedrum. Handsonic. Dynacord RhythmStick. MPC. Paiste 2002/Signatures. Cajons. Djembes. Darbuka. Windsynth. MIDI Bass. Tenori-on. Zoom ARQ. Synths. Ukes.

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      • #4
        If all you are looking to do is drive SD3 take a look at the eDRUMin. And with ATV cymbals you may be able to use Bell Sense and get by with just using one jack of the cymbal.

        Here is a quote from the eDRUMin forums from evh0u812 (I hope you don’t mind), an eDRUMin/ATV user:
        ”I can now report that the bell sense works flawlessly with the 18" ATV ride cymbal. It's indistinguishable from the cymbal setup with two jacks. The bell zone ends literally dead on the edge of the bell. Zero bell triggering from the bow anywhere. It works way better than what you video shows with the cy15r.”
        Last edited by Mylo; 04-23-20, 10:31 AM.
        PDP Concept Maple A2E with Bum Wraps; Pearl Crystal Beat Octobans; Jobeky AI dual-zone triggers; drum-tec Real Feel and Billy Blast Ballistech 3.0 mesh heads; ATV cymbals; Gibralter hardware; Offset double pedal; DW Remote hi-hat stands; Yamaha FC7; two eDRUMin10 devices; Alesis Strike Amp 8; Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen; Intel NUC with Windows 10 Pro; SD3

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        • #5
          If you want a number of 3-zone cymbals, Yamaha definitely has an advantage because of their single-jack design. I'm running 3 3-zone cymbals with a DTX502 module.

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          • #6
            Alex, how big is your kit?

            i do like the eDRUMin, as it supports 3-zone pads and cymbals all around. But not all SD kits have 3 zones to trigger. Many crashes are only two zones.
            Last edited by perceval; 04-23-20, 09:31 PM.
            DTX700, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH
            Kit Pix http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=613

            My new venture, HiEnd Speakers. : voglosounds.com

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            • #7
              1 eDRUMin using bell sense or 2 eDRUMins using bell and edge inputs... Can also be combined with another module or additional eDRUMins if your goal is to trigger SD3 exclusively.
              Roland TD-50 & eDRUMin Modules | Superior Drummer 3 | Tama A2E w/ R-Drums Triggers | FIELD, ATV, & Roland Cymbals | ACD Unlimited Pedals | Tama & Gibraltar HW | RME HDSPe AIO Interface | Mackie ProFX10v3 Mixer | Simmons DA200S Monitor | V-MODA Crossfade M-100 OEMs & Westone UM Pro 50 IEMs

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              • #8
                Originally posted by perceval View Post
                But not all SD kits have 3 zones to trigger. Many crashes are only two zones.
                Are you referring to SD3? From what I can see all the crashes in the Core library have articulations for bell, bow and edge for tip and shank. I also have Death and Darkness now and I see the same thing. Now I know SD has many more libraries but the newer ones seem full featured.

                PDP Concept Maple A2E with Bum Wraps; Pearl Crystal Beat Octobans; Jobeky AI dual-zone triggers; drum-tec Real Feel and Billy Blast Ballistech 3.0 mesh heads; ATV cymbals; Gibralter hardware; Offset double pedal; DW Remote hi-hat stands; Yamaha FC7; two eDRUMin10 devices; Alesis Strike Amp 8; Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen; Intel NUC with Windows 10 Pro; SD3

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                • #9
                  Yeah, some of the older libraries only have 2 zones, and I didn't download any of the new ones yet.

                  Glad they've upped it to include more zones in all those cymbals... might be the reason why the downloads are so huge these days!
                  DTX700, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH
                  Kit Pix http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=613

                  My new venture, HiEnd Speakers. : voglosounds.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by perceval View Post
                    ....might be the reason why the downloads are so huge these days!
                    It took 4 hours to download D&D today and another 30 minutes to install both. Crazy!
                    Last edited by Mylo; 04-24-20, 01:34 PM.
                    PDP Concept Maple A2E with Bum Wraps; Pearl Crystal Beat Octobans; Jobeky AI dual-zone triggers; drum-tec Real Feel and Billy Blast Ballistech 3.0 mesh heads; ATV cymbals; Gibralter hardware; Offset double pedal; DW Remote hi-hat stands; Yamaha FC7; two eDRUMin10 devices; Alesis Strike Amp 8; Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen; Intel NUC with Windows 10 Pro; SD3

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hey, thanks for the great responses from everyone! I really appreciate it. So - to answer a few questions - yes, all I intend to do is trigger SD3 with my kit. Even the most advanced modules on the market (TD50, Mimic, etc) still sound unusable to me. I am a full-time pro and do lots and lots of remote tracking for clients. Being able to send them stems with correct bleed, close and room/OH mics, totally dry files, etc is really important for my workflow. SD3 is the only thing that allows me to do that, and it sounds so realistic that most people I work with don't even realize it's not a real kit.

                      I did know that Yamaha had lots of 3-zone stuff but their pads look and feel a bit subpar to me. I'm looking for bigger cymbals and full-size (ish) drums a la Drum-Tec or Jobecky, hopefully. Does the DTX module send 3-zone data for all drums/cymbals to SD3?

                      I'm interested in the eDRUMin, I did not know that existed. I had seen the old ddrum DDTi but it looks quite limited. My only concern with the eDRUMin is that the module only has 4 (?) trigger inputs. My full kit isn't huge - ideally, I'd have 1 18" ride, 1 16" crash/ride, 1 14" crash and 12" or 14" hihats (all triple zone - thanks ATV!) plus 2 toms and snare (with positional sensing and proper x-stick) and kick. So basically a 4-piece with 3 pies. My confusion with the eDRUMin - even if I can get 3-zone cymbals on one jack, I'd need... 3 modules, which means 3 power supplies and 3 USB ports? Am I missing something here? That's an option but seems kind of silly. I'd also be worried about setting that up in SD3 - how do you aggregate 3+ separate modules into 1 device for triggering SD3?

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                      • #12
                        Looking more into the Yamaha DTX stuff - very interesting. A few things I love but lots that I don't. The tuning knobs on the toms are cool - if there was a way to have that control the tuning slider in SD3 that would be incredibly cool but I know it's impossible, ha. The cross-stick on the snare is nice as well. But looking at it, there's zero positional sensing on the snare from edge to center. There's also the fact that their 'flagship' brain (DTX900M) is over a decade old in design. That's prehistoric in digital audio. Cymbals are pretty tiny also, and the drums themselves look very dated. I like the 3-zone support, but I'm also seeing that there's very limited compatibility for non-Yamaha cymbals since it's all on 1 jack.

                        It's a possibility still, but depending on the eDRUMin question I asked above, that may well be a better option for me.

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                        • #13
                          for recording and SD3, i think eDrumins would fit your need, for your pads/cymbals you listed. you would need 2 eDrumins. You should go to eDrumins discussion thread and read i think yamaha pcy155 [15-16"] will give you 3 zones nicely with 1 cable hook up to eDrumin.

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                          • #14
                            If you’re using ATV cymbals, people are reporting success with using Bell Sense so you’d get three zones on the one jack. It’s pretty magical what Rob has done here dragging extra zones out of single and dual zone triggers. Given the success of others I feel you can get by two eDRUMin devices. Those two devices plug into a USB hub and work with no problems. If you’re anything like me you already have a USB hub for all the other stuff we plug in. The eDRUMin controller software can see four devices so it is easy enough to manage two devices at once.

                            Once you get them plugged in use the controller software to assign them different colors (page 29 of the manual). Now you can see which is which in the controller software and in SD3. When you setup your MIDI devices in SD3 they will show up as “eDRUMin Black” or “eDRUMin Green” in the Devices list. Easy.

                            BTW... I have four. SD3 has no problems with them. Also if you haven’t already, check out the well written (and actually useful) manual. It goes over everything really well.

                            https://www.audiofront.net/eDRUMin.pdf

                            And if two devices don’t work out... managing three won’t be any harder than two.
                            PDP Concept Maple A2E with Bum Wraps; Pearl Crystal Beat Octobans; Jobeky AI dual-zone triggers; drum-tec Real Feel and Billy Blast Ballistech 3.0 mesh heads; ATV cymbals; Gibralter hardware; Offset double pedal; DW Remote hi-hat stands; Yamaha FC7; two eDRUMin10 devices; Alesis Strike Amp 8; Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen; Intel NUC with Windows 10 Pro; SD3

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              you mentioned the digital ride and snare. what about the td27 digital pack plus an eDRUMin (if you really want the atv hardware) or just a td27? much cheaper than the td50

                              since you’re relatively new to edrums a roland will give you a stable, reliable and the most straightforward experience in setting up with sd3 and it sounds like all those things would be important to you. i’m sure atv does too but without a digital ride and snare. at the same time, it sounds like you are right across musical technology so the eDRUMin should not be any problem for you either

                              if you can, get to a store and play the digital ride and snare to see whether or not they really matter to you
                              Last edited by jackodrum; 04-24-20, 03:42 PM.
                              Roland TD9 (KD8, FD9), Yamaha DTX Multi12 (KT10, HH65, TP100), Zendrum EXP (Stompblock) || Scarlett 6i6 > imac; 2i4 >macbook || Superior Drummer 3, Logic || Yamaha HS7s, Yamaha DBR10, ATH-M30x || DIY compact a-kit, Mapex Meridian, Zildjian Ks, some As and Sabians and ... || youtube

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