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Roland digital ride/snare vs eDRUMin

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  • Roland digital ride/snare vs eDRUMin

    does anyone have experience with both? is the midi triggering capability of a roland digital pack (TD27 or TD50) worth the cost compared to the capability and cost of the eDRUMin specifically for VST triggering?
    E-kits: Roland TD9 (KD8, FD9), Yamaha DTX Multi12 (KT10, HH65, TP100), Zendrum EXP (Stompblock) || Interfaces: Scarlett 6i6, 2i4 || Computers: imac, macbook || Software: Superior Drummer 3, Logic || Monitors: Yamaha HS7s, Yamaha DBR10, ATH-M30x || A-Kits: DIY compact kit, Mapex Meridian || Cymbals: Zildjian Ks, some As, Sabians ...

  • #2
    Different products aimed at different use cases. The digital snare doesn't have some magical new triggering. It's just the only pad - to my knowledge - that will have positional sensing AND no hotspotting. There's the added cherry that you can cross stick like on an acoustic snare, but it's nothing you couldn't live without (or simulate with other methods). The digital ride is just the only big ride with proper positional sensing (my atv ride is all over the place) and TBH I prefer the sticking feel. Roland says that it also detects shank/tip hits but I'm not sure if they're just doing some velocity gating or something more elaborate. The ride is freaking loud, by the way.

    Anyhow, as with all Roland products the MSRP doesn't give much value. If you can get it used, it's pretty good.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Excessium View Post
      The digital snare doesn't have some magical new triggering. It's just the only pad - to my knowledge - that will have positional sensing AND no hotspotting.
      Anyhow, as with all Roland products the MSRP doesn't give much value. If you can get it used, it's pretty good.
      is that possibly an oversimplication? sounds like the same as saying it's a PDX-12 + positional sensing and a slightly better appearance for 3x the price?
      purchased Alesis STRIKE, PD-85 rack toms, PD-105BK floor tom, Mapex snare with ISM-6, PDP MX 22" kick with ISM, iron cobra 900 double pedal, 2x hart e-cymbals, CY-5 as splash, CY-8, PCY-130, CY-12R, an L80 hi-hat with cheap-o trigger with goedrum hi hat controller. EZdrummer2+EZX/Addictive Drums 2 VSTs.

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      • #4
        Sorry, no experience with the digital snare / ride, but to make things clear...

        you can cross stick like on an acoustic kit with eDrumin.
        Plus, rimshot.
        The hotspot suppressor function works really well.

        and the ability to use almost any pads out there, not just Roland's.
        DTX700, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH Kit Pix

        My new venture: voglosounds.com

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        • #5
          Originally posted by perceval View Post
          Sorry, no experience with the digital snare / ride, but to make things clear...

          you can cross stick like on an acoustic kit with eDrumin.
          Plus, rimshot.
          The hotspot suppressor function works really well.

          and the ability to use almost any pads out there, not just Roland's.
          But how is it compared to a Roland module concerning xstick? What I mean is, I can also do that on my td-12 but it will work 9-10 times, then one time I might slightly move my hand on the head while crosssticking and it will trigger a soft head sound. Also there is the velocity threshold above which it will trigger a rimshot.

          Anyways, this is an odd comparison to me as we're talking about completely different price ranges and IMO, I haven't found any Roland products with value higher than their competition for their price. Used prices close the gap a bit, of course.

          The edrumin obviously has higher value for money, it's just that it can't stand by itself at the moment.

          Regarding my "oversimplification": the only thing the digital snare provides more in terms of triggering, that I'm aware of, is "high resolution velocity". Meaning it gives you more than 127 velocity values. I don't know about you, but for me 127 is enough. It's like those new 300hz+ gaming monitors. I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference. I imagine the feel of the 14" head is better than their other powerply heads, but I couldn't tell a difference vs a drumtec realfeel. It's more quiet, though
          Last edited by Excessium; 01-16-20, 01:52 AM.

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          • #6
            With eDrumin, there is no sweet spot for cross stick. The whole rim can be used.
            The butt of the stick is one the head, my palm touches the head. Not triggering a head sound.
            Velocity is full range, meaning that you can whack it good, and it will still be a cross stick sound.

            To to get a rimshot, you really need to hit both the head and the rim.

            Finally, the eDrumin will never be a standalone unit.
            It is to add pads for modules with limited inputs that have a MIDI in, or for using with a VST.
            DTX700, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH Kit Pix

            My new venture: voglosounds.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by perceval View Post
              With eDrumin, there is no sweet spot for cross stick. The whole rim can be used.
              The butt of the stick is one the head, my palm touches the head. Not triggering a head sound.
              Velocity is full range, meaning that you can whack it good, and it will still be a cross stick sound.

              To to get a rimshot, you really need to hit both the head and the rim.
              Yeah, I knew that rimshots require you to actually hit both head & rim.
              Sounds like Rob did a very nice job. Kudos.

              Originally posted by perceval View Post
              Finally, the eDrumin will never be a standalone unit.
              It is to add pads for modules with limited inputs that have a MIDI in, or for using with a VST.
              Just to be clear, I meant that it can't stand by itself for VST, unless you have a tiny kit or are willing to get 2-3 edrumin's - which I guess wouldn't be that far fetched.
              I'm aware that its purpose is not to replace a complete module.

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              • #8
                Different products aimed at different use cases.
                Anyways, this is an odd comparison to me as we're talking about completely different price ranges
                Different products, yes. Different price ranges, yes.

                I use a TD9 to trigger SD3.

                I can buy an eDRUMin for my snare, hats and ride and run it with my TD9 (e.g. toms, crash, percussion) and get positional sensing on the snare without hotspotting, and almost equivalent to positional sensing on the ride.

                I can buy a TD27 digital upgrade and get a digital snare and ride with all the sensitivity and dynamics they offer for MIDI triggering.

                Basically same use case, completely different price ranges, hence the question.
                E-kits: Roland TD9 (KD8, FD9), Yamaha DTX Multi12 (KT10, HH65, TP100), Zendrum EXP (Stompblock) || Interfaces: Scarlett 6i6, 2i4 || Computers: imac, macbook || Software: Superior Drummer 3, Logic || Monitors: Yamaha HS7s, Yamaha DBR10, ATH-M30x || A-Kits: DIY compact kit, Mapex Meridian || Cymbals: Zildjian Ks, some As, Sabians ...

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                • #9
                  Even though the TD-27 digital upgrade package has higher value (for me) compared to the TD-50 version of it, it still doesn't make much financial sense (again, for me).
                  I don't see what you mean "without hotspotting". The eDRUMin provides a decent suppression (from what people are saying - I haven't tested it myself and I haven't seen anyone actually demo this feature), but noone said that it removes hotspotting. That's the whole point about the Roland solution:
                  if you want a "pretty good" solution, you go with the eDRUMin and combine it with whatever else you have. If you want something even further than that and don't mind spending hundreds of $ for a small benefit, then you get the Roland stuff. I tested the digital snare. There was no hot-spotting at all, even with "Normal" curve. Rob has done some impressive things with the eDRUMin, but I'm guessing he can't do miracles. The center triggers are just inherently flawed for hotspotting.

                  Personally, I was very torn between the two solutions but I was lucky to find the digital pads, used, for a stupid price. I can almost sell my drum-tec snare to cover the cost of both.. I might get the TD-27, I might wait for someone to sell his TD-50 for a stupid price, we'll see. I might just get an eDRUMin too to replace the snake cable that comes with the TD-27, but mostly just because I like what Rob is doing.
                  Last edited by Excessium; 01-16-20, 03:55 AM.

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                  • #10
                    yeah - i really like what he’s doing too. it’s taken me a while to sort out how i could really use the edrumin in my set up (and support him into the bargain) but have pretty much figured it out now (as above). then roland brings out these new lines (again, hence the question). i must say though that much of the new roland stuff misses the mark for me personally and i’m leaning towards the edrumin. i guess you’ve seen this video but ‘no hotspotting’ is not an exaggeration in my opinion

                    https://youtu.be/4sacaCU19oE
                    E-kits: Roland TD9 (KD8, FD9), Yamaha DTX Multi12 (KT10, HH65, TP100), Zendrum EXP (Stompblock) || Interfaces: Scarlett 6i6, 2i4 || Computers: imac, macbook || Software: Superior Drummer 3, Logic || Monitors: Yamaha HS7s, Yamaha DBR10, ATH-M30x || A-Kits: DIY compact kit, Mapex Meridian || Cymbals: Zildjian Ks, some As, Sabians ...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jackodrum View Post
                      yeah - i really like what he’s doing too. it’s taken me a while to sort out how i could really use the edrumin in my set up (and support him into the bargain) but have pretty much figured it out now (as above). then roland brings out these new lines (again, hence the question). i must say though that much of the new roland stuff misses the mark for me personally and i’m leaning towards the edrumin. i guess you’ve seen this video but ‘no hotspotting’ is not an exaggeration in my opinion

                      https://youtu.be/4sacaCU19oE
                      Different definitions of hot-spotting, I guess. I get the same effect with my drum-tec snare on my TD-12 with the log curve. But I still get higher velocities in the center compared to, say, slightly off center. That's what I meant in my previous post. It's "pretty good" that the velocity doesn't spike, but it still peaks the closer you get to the center. That doesn't happen on the digital snare. Again, I don't think there's much Rob could do about it. Just center-mounted triggers..
                      I do think, however, Rob could play with velocities and PS. Meaning, when you detect hits slightly off-center, you boost its velocity slightly. More off-center, more velocity boosting. Not sure if that would work, as it would require very fine-grained PS.
                      Last edited by Excessium; 01-16-20, 04:18 AM.

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                      • #12
                        If you hit both head and rim, you are combining a centre head sound with a X-stick sound (at best) or at worst a rimshot snare sound (if that's your desired main sound) with X-stick sound.
                        Neither of which is exactly like playing a rimshot on an acoustic drum. So if any e-drum pad can address this effectively it will be great.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Whitten View Post
                          If you hit both head and rim, you are combining a centre head sound with a X-stick sound (at best) or at worst a rimshot snare sound (if that's your desired main sound) with X-stick sound.
                          Neither of which is exactly like playing a rimshot on an acoustic drum. So if any e-drum pad can address this effectively it will be great.
                          I'm not sure what you mean. On what module does that happen?

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                          • #14
                            I'm saying if you place a snare sound on the main pad, then place an Xstick sound on the rim, it doesn't equal a rimshot when you hit both combined. Unless there is a pad that can register you are hitting both centre and rim and doesn't trigger the X-stick sound from the rim in that scenario.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Whitten View Post
                              I'm saying if you place a snare sound on the main pad, then place an Xstick sound on the rim, it doesn't equal a rimshot when you hit both combined. Unless there is a pad that can register you are hitting both centre and rim and doesn't trigger the X-stick sound from the rim in that scenario.
                              I still don't understand what you mean. Are you asking if that's what the eDRUMin does? I'm sure that it's not stacking sounds, just picks one.
                              I'm assuming it checks the values from the head & rim piezos, does some math and decides if it will trigger either a head, or xstick, or rimshot sound.
                              E.g. low head signal + decent rim signal -> xstick. Strong head & rim signal -> rimshot. I think you still have to select if you want it to make a xstick or rim-only sound? Not sure.
                              Last edited by Excessium; 01-16-20, 05:33 AM.

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