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Winter NAMM 2020 New Products

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  • Originally posted by MJB View Post

    The eDRUMin looks like a super interesting option, I just don't know how anyone is committing to it with only 4 inputs?
    I had the same question and the answer is in the eDrumin thread, it is used to expand an already set up edrum kit, but i think there is a huge untapped market for an easy to use e-drum to MIDI interface so you can skip buying a module and just get a cheap interface with lots of inputs and connect to a vst. You will save a ton of money that way and have way better results but the options are extremely limited, in my knowledge there is megadrum that is difficult to set up and difficult to even buy, eDrumIn that is great but has only 4 inputs and then DDrum DDTI that is just okay but outdated.

    If i had a company i would invest in a midi 2.0 interface with lots of inputs and an easy to use software as standalone or together with some cheap chinese / thai edrums and sell it like hotcakes, because it would be half the price of any drum module or edrum set out there.
    Last edited by silot; 01-19-20, 05:11 AM.

    Comment


    • I don't know about a laptop setup replacing a module. There are just a lot of moving parts to it being the norm. You not only need the inputs but outputs as well for live use. Just alot more involved than the casual drummer with setup, configurations, managing latency and laptop performing multiple everyday tasks unless you can afford a dedicated laptop. Learning the software that hosts the VST and maintaining it as well as the VST itself. I'm not saying there isn't a market for it but I don't know about it overtaking modules as the preferred setup for most.

      I like something like 2box and strike, they are cheap enough and you can export VST kits to them or just use them as is. You can also use them to trigger VSTs so all the options are available.

      I just had a thought, how great would it be to have a module like a video game console and the games are the VST's that you just swap in? Actually, that's a good comparison to this debate. I think most people like using a dedicated game console as opposed to installing games on a computer as far as I know, similar to dedicated modules

      Comment


      • Mesh or not ( I liked the silicon pads when I played them) Yammie is a mystery as to why they didnt continue to pursue the edrum market having been in it very early. They went more after the " hybrid market" which made some sense. Maybe they were tired of competing with Roland and its patents. Would love to see them come out minimally with a real Hi end module compatible with all pads but really whole kits with 2 piece silicon pads that make the silicon part detachable and replaceable if necessary. That way you wouldnt have to replace the whole pad. I know I don't ask for much, lol!
        They have had 8 years or so to come out with something . When it comes it will be killer!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jpsquared482 View Post
          Before we all jump to conclusions that ATV is dying on the vine, let's be clear.

          Tom Blazek said this on FB: "After lengthy discussion at the show, was very disheartened to hear that ALL of the promises made last year have been broken. No expanded output module, editing software, plans for any new hardware. Wondering if I made a mistake going with ATV. (Expanded kit, 2 aD5’s, extra Cyms, extra tom....). Real bummer."

          Tom didn't say he spoke with ATV representatives. He said he had discussions at the show. Yes, the prototypes revealed at 2019 NAMM have not YET been released. That doesn't mean they never will.
          ATV just announced two new apps that are being released:
          1) The remote control app for the aD5 for FOH control
          2) A kit designer for the EXS series

          Though ATV arguably appears not to have plans to release Link expansion box anytime soon, at least for now, they are focusing development on software and new sounds as a means of expanding the capabilities of the devices already released. Being a small company competing with the likes of Roland and Alesis as well as taking a hit on tariffs (along with the rest of course) this is a smart use of resources.

          In line with what others have said, I'm not so sure there's much value in the ATV Link expansion, depending on its price. For under $300 it could be a winner; over $500 and I'm not so sure. I'd prefer to see them offer a big brother or next-generation of the aD5 if they can pull it off. Add the ATV functionality into the module to keep it a one-device solution, add more sound layers, and add some basic FX capabilities, and they'd have a real winner. They might even need this to compete against the TD-27 for those who put function ahead of sound. I myself put the aD5 in a league above the TD-27 in terms of sound and that's before the Canopus sounds are released. Isn't that what it's all about?
          Last edited by jpsquared482; 01-19-20, 09:56 AM.
          ATV aDrums & aD5, Pearl Mimic Pro & DIY, Agean R-series Silent Cymbals, Roland Handsonic HPD-20.

          Comment


          • eDRUMin may have only 4 inputs, but units can be combined to add inputs, and inputs can be split. I know of no other unit that can produce 4 different sounds from a single stereo input.

            True, as a starter unit, the dev decided to go with a smaller unit to see if there was a market. The guy is alone, designing the hardware, finding the factory to build it, coding the software, all with nobody backing him up with big money.

            So, I for one, can't blame him for trying to start small and see what the response is.

            There was a hint in the thread that if he sees that there is a market for his devices, he may be willing to expand later.
            But, he has to get his money back... from all the work he put into this, and the personal money he invested having the units built.

            If there's enough traction, he might be enticed to come up with a bigger model. He did say his app can handle a lot more inputs.
            But in the mean time, owners of limited input modules can rejoice having access to a stunning device that lets anyone add pads or cymbals from any manufacturer out there, or lets them try their hand at a DIY trigger, trying to save a little money.

            There are just a lot of moving parts to it being the norm. You not only need the inputs but outputs as well for live use.
            Today's laptops are mostly RAM and SSD... pretty much a Mimic! True, the Mimic has lots of outputs, but adding outputs from a dedicated audio card is not so hard and expensive these days.
            Many people can do it with stereo only, but even adding 8 outputs is still so far from the price of a Mimic.

            No need to learn a DAW to only output drum sounds. SD, AD, and the likes all have standalone apps that can handle routing to stereo or multiple outs.

            VSTs are a dream come true for most home users... if something crashes, we just restart and it's fine. Although, in all the years I have used a VST at home, I have NEVER had a crash where the sounds stopped coming. Ever.

            How many people do rely on 8 outputs for gigging? Most of the time, I see them rely on stereo output only, and it works fine... unless you are a big band touring big venues. But then, price is not a factor usually.

            2Box, Mimic, they saw it coming and made a module able to handle real samples.
            For the rest of us who can't afford, or not willing to spend that much on a module like the Mimic for whatever reasons, VSTs are a really great and viable option.

            Sorry, this is the NAMM thread... but eDRUMin should be there.... just doesn't have the money behind it to advertise itself in such a big show.
            Last edited by perceval; 01-19-20, 09:45 AM.
            DTX700, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH Kit Pix

            My new venture: voglosounds.com

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jpsquared482 View Post

              ATV just announced two new apps that are being released:
              1) The remote control app for the aD5 for FOH control
              2) A kit designer for Kit Creator for the EXS series

              Though ATV arguably appears not to have plans to release Link expansion box anytime soon, at least for now, they are focusing development on software and new sounds as a means of expanding the capabilities of the devices already released. Being a small company competing with the likes of Roland and Alesis as well as taking a hit on tariffs (along with the rest of course) this is a smart use of resources.

              In line with what others have said, I'm not so sure there's much value the ATV Link expansion, depending on its price. For under $300 it could be a winner; over $500 and I'm not so sure. I'd prefer to see them offer a big brother or next-generation of the aD5 if they can pull it off. Add the ATV functionality into the module to keep it a one-device solution, add more sound layers, and add some basic FX capabilities, and they'd have a real winner. They might even need this to compete against the TD-27 for those who put function ahead of sound. I myself put the aD5 in a league above the TD-27 in terms of sound and that's before the Canopus sounds are released. Isn't that what it's all about?
              Agree - I could care less about the Link. Give me some top notch sounds and I'll be happy. No mention of the sample import is sad however. I too hope they bring a more advanced module to the market some day. Hard to believe it's 5 years old already.
              Pearl MIMIC Pro, ATV aD5, ATV aDrums Expanded

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Jeffo View Post
                Mesh or not ( I liked the silicon pads when I played them) Yammie is a mystery as to why they didnt continue to pursue the edrum market having been in it very early. They went more after the " hybrid market" which made some sense. Maybe they were tired of competing with Roland and its patents. Would love to see them come out minimally with a real Hi end module compatible with all pads but really whole kits with 2 piece silicon pads that make the silicon part detachable and replaceable if necessary. That way you wouldnt have to replace the whole pad. I know I don't ask for much, lol!
                They have had 8 years or so to come out with something . When it comes it will be killer!
                I agree with you. And where's Steve Fisher in all this? I was expect much more with him onboard. Crickets......

                Comment


                • Originally posted by molson View Post

                  Agree - I could care less about the Link. Give me some top notch sounds and I'll be happy. No mention of the sample import is sad however. I too hope they bring a more advanced module to the market some day. Hard to believe it's 5 years old already.
                  It sounds like you do care, since you could care less?
                  ATV aDrums & aD5, Pearl Mimic Pro & DIY, Agean R-series Silent Cymbals, Roland Handsonic HPD-20.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by perceval View Post
                    eDRUMin may have only 4 inputs, but units can be combined to add inputs, and inputs can be split. I know of no other unit that can produce 4 different sounds from a single stereo input.

                    True, as a starter unit, the dev decided to go with a smaller unit to see if there was a market. The guy is alone, designing the hardware, finding the factory to build it, coding the software, all with nobody backing him up with big money.

                    So, I for one, can't blame him for trying to start small and see what the response is.

                    There was a hint in the thread that if he sees that there is a market for his devices, he may be willing to expand later.
                    But, he has to get his money back... from all the work he put into this, and the personal money he invested having the units built.

                    If there's enough traction, he might be enticed to come up with a bigger model. He did say his app can handle a lot more inputs.
                    But in the mean time, owners of limited input modules can rejoice having access to a stunning device that lets anyone add pads or cymbals from any manufacturer out there, or lets them try their hand at a DIY trigger, trying to save a little money.



                    Today's laptops are mostly RAM and SSD... pretty much a Mimic! True, the Mimic has lots of outputs, but adding outputs from a dedicated audio card is not so hard and expensive these days.
                    Many people can do it with stereo only, but even adding 8 outputs is still so far from the price of a Mimic.

                    No need to learn a DAW to only output drum sounds. SD, AD, and the likes all have standalone apps that can handle routing to stereo or multiple outs.

                    VSTs are a dream come true for most home users... if something crashes, we just restart and it's fine. Although, in all the years I have used a VST at home, I have NEVER had a crash where the sounds stopped coming. Ever.

                    How many people do rely on 8 outputs for gigging? Most of the time, I see them rely on stereo output only, and it works fine... unless you are a big band touring big venues. But then, price is not a factor usually.

                    2Box, Mimic, they saw it coming and made a module able to handle real samples.
                    For the rest of us who can't afford, or not willing to spend that much on a module like the Mimic for whatever reasons, VSTs are a really great and viable option.

                    Sorry, this is the NAMM thread... but eDRUMin should be there.... just doesn't have the money behind it to advertise itself in such a big show.
                    eDrumIn is sold out so the traction is definitely there , maybe Yamaha should hire the guy and revive their edrum line

                    There are a lot of bands who rely on laptops for their multi effects already, i know tesseract use 2 laptops live in case the one dies the other takes its place.

                    Comment


                    • Have this thread got completely out of bounds?

                      It looks the VST fever have hit some people hard in this thread. :-)

                      ok, just to make a comment here...I played for about 4 years with MegaDrum, Microsoft Surface Pro, 8 channel sound card and Addictive Drums on stage...it worked perfect...must have done about 25 concerts without any problems at all. But the setup was in the end complex...and a lot of stuff to carry...so I went with 2box modules.


                      Best regards

                      Anders / www.zourman.com
                      Pearl CrystalBeat and Sonor Safari, Roland CY-14/13R/15R/12CR,RT-10/30,BT-1,VH-11/12/13 & KD-10,Dingbat,Triggera D14,D11, ATV AD-h14, 120MHz MegaDRUM with PS board, 2box 3,5,5MKII, dd4SE, Yamaha DTX502, Addictive Drums 2.1.8. All ADpaks, Microsoft Surface PRO, Macbook, Pearl Throne Thumper, Zourman HH & Ride Conv Kit www.zourman.com

                      Comment


                      • I think the future is definitely a VST-based module, like the PMP or 2Box. The biggest problem with the Pearl is the cost, which will come down over time, especially if there is more competition in the space. The thing about the cost is, it's really not any more than what you would need to spend to run a laptop-based VST (and in fact, could be less). Think about the cost of a laptop that is equally as rugged as the Mimic, using quality components throughout your signal chain to achieve the same low latency, with a sound card with as many routing options, the cost of the software (SD3 is not cheap), etc. For a gigging musician, I think the Mimic blows VSTs away in terms of convenience, and even for the home user who just wants to switch on and play. Not to harp on it, but the Mimic really is the best of both worlds.

                        Really, the only downside to the Mimic that I can think of is the fact that, since it is essentially a Slate Digital (not Pearl) product, it is tied to a proprietary sample library. It would be epic if it were open source - say, for example, you could load Superior Drummer 3 on there, and then download expansion packs an load them onto the module via the SD card slot? I'm actually kind of surprised that Toontrack hasn't partnered with someone to develop hardware and tap into this market, but maybe it really is too niche for them. I know that many (maybe even most) of their users are not even drummers.
                        Last edited by MJB; 01-19-20, 06:09 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Yes it's strange, the idea of VST sounds on a module has already been achieved by the Mimic Pro. So what is the demand here that seems to have reached a fever pitch of late?
                          ◾Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾MegaDRUM ◾Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾Pearl THMP-1
                          PA Comparison Table

                          Comment


                          • Well, now that NAMM is pretty much over, I think it's safe to say that Roland dominated the e-drum scene. And while I admit to getting a little swept up in the marketing hype myself, on reflection, not much has really changed. I mean, the Acoustic Design series is an interesting (and unexpected) move on Roland's part, but is it that much different than an aDrums kit? How many of us have built our own AE kits, with arguably better results (e.g., bigger shell sizes, better mesh heads, better sample-based modules, etc.)? At the end of the day, I think the VAD series is really only a big deal if you really wanted the digital ride/snare package, but couldn't afford the TD-50 (but the VAD kits are pretty expensive themselves, and you could also just buy the module, snare, and ride bundled separately and use with your own shells). Sure, there are people who may not want to go the DIY route, or take a chance with one of the many options with less brand name recognition (ATV, drum-tec, Jobeky, Muzzio, Hawk, etc.) - but to me, these are casual consumers, and how many of those want to spend $4-$5K on e-drums? I mean, I know there are some die-hard Roland fans who won't play anything "less," so maybe this is for them?

                            I don't know, I can't speak for anyone else, but despite the current frenzy, I still feel like I'm doing better with my DIY AE shells, ATV cymbals, and Pearl Mimic Pro, in both playing experience and quality of sounds. So, nice try Roland, but no thanks, lol.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Kabonfaiba View Post
                              Yes it's strange, the idea of VST sounds on a module has already been achieved by the Mimic Pro. So what is the demand here that seems to have reached a fever pitch of late?
                              Not strange at all.

                              There has to be about a hundred or more drum sample libraries out there, including the Mimic Pro. If all of your sonic needs are met by the Mimic Pro, then it's a great choice.

                              Trouble is, my sonic interests/needs/what inspires me are not met by the Mimic Pro, so I have chosen to use VSTs (SD3 and sometimes BFD) and couldn't be happier with the rate, quality and diverse types of sounds they are releasing.

                              All of which is to say, its pretty reasonable and non-feverish to choose something other than the Mimic pro.





                              E Kit 3: ATV aDrums extended kit; Roland TD30; Superior Drummer 3 (2018)
                              E Kit 2: Roland TD 10 and Roland and Yamaha pads (1997)
                              E Kit 1: Emax Sampler, Roland Octapad, DDrum pads, acoustic cymbals (1988)
                              A Kit: Ayotte drums; UFIP, Sabian and Paiste Cymbals

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by MJB View Post
                                I think the Mimic blows VSTs away in terms of convenience, and even for the home user who just wants to switch on and play. Not to harp on it, but the Mimic really is the best of both worlds.

                                Really, the only downside to the Mimic that I can think of is the fact that, since it is essentially a Slate Digital (not Pearl) product, it is tied to a proprietary sample library. It would be epic if it were open source - say, for example, you could load Superior Drummer 3 on there, and then download expansion packs an load them onto the module via the SD card slot? I'm actually kind of surprised that Toontrack hasn't partnered with someone to develop hardware and tap into this market, but maybe it really is too niche for them. I know that many (maybe even most) of their users are not even drummers.
                                As a home user who uses SD3, I go in my studio, turn on my TD30, hit the space bar to wake my computer, then I'm good to go. Pretty simple.

                                Yes, the downside of the Mimic is that it's a closed system, and its library has not been expanded meaningfully since its launch almost 4 years ago. If you are good with that, it's a fantastic module.





                                E Kit 3: ATV aDrums extended kit; Roland TD30; Superior Drummer 3 (2018)
                                E Kit 2: Roland TD 10 and Roland and Yamaha pads (1997)
                                E Kit 1: Emax Sampler, Roland Octapad, DDrum pads, acoustic cymbals (1988)
                                A Kit: Ayotte drums; UFIP, Sabian and Paiste Cymbals

                                Comment

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