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ATV EXS-5 & Roland TD-17 & SD3

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  • ATV EXS-5 & Roland TD-17 & SD3

    Hello Everyone,

    After much research i am looking at replacing my acoustic setup (due to noise levels) with a ATV EXS-5 kit, Roland TD-17 Module and possibly Superior Drummer 3. This is to play at home only, no live work and no recording (for now).

    I am looking for something as close to my acoustic kit as possible in both size and sound. The ATV EXS-5 fits the bill with regard to pad / cymbal sizes. The Roland TD-17 offers the possibility of adding anther 2 cymbals / pads and more options on the sound module than the xD3. SD3 brings the high qualty sounds.

    My questions are:

    As this is for practise and playing along to songs would the TD-17 module be good enough alone? So far i have only being impressed by SD3 sounds, if it doesn't sound good i won't want to play it!

    Should i be concerned about latency? SD3 will have to run on a basic laptop (8GB RAM, Core i7 2.5 GHz, 256GB SSD), not looking to add an audio interface if possible.

    Would this setup be over / under kill for simply playing at home? This is all right at the top end of my budget at 2300.

    Any thoughts would be most welcome!






  • #2
    [beware... opinions ahead]

    Overkill? Yup. Much. Much better stuff to practice with for less than 2300. TD17 - no MIDI IN and proprietary cable snake, limitations on where you can put sounds and limits on MIDI implementation. Only 2-zone pads. Pad sizes are to a degree irrelevant - 98% of your hits on any drum are within 6" diameter of the centre.
    *** Never buy a module without MIDI IN ***
    Yamaha & Roland modules. DTX,TM-2, EC-10m, SP-404. Multi12. TrapKat. ControlPads. Octapad, SamplePad, Wavedrum. Handsonic. Dynacord RhythmStick. MPC. Paiste 2002/Signatures. Cajons. Djembes. Darbuka. Windsynth. MIDI Bass. Tenori-on. Zoom ARQ. Synths. Ukes.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by electrodrummer View Post
      [beware... opinions ahead]

      Overkill? Yup. Much. Much better stuff to practice with for less than 2300. TD17 - no MIDI IN and proprietary cable snake, limitations on where you can put sounds and limits on MIDI implementation. Only 2-zone pads. Pad sizes are to a degree irrelevant - 98% of your hits on any drum are within 6" diameter of the centre.
      Thanks for the response!

      What would you suggest? Overkill on the drums, module, software or the whole lot?

      Swapping the ATV module to Roland was mainly to allow for extra inputs if i want to expand the kit, SD3 would purely be for getting better sounds.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by electrodrummer View Post
        [beware... opinions ahead]

        Overkill? Yup. Much. Much better stuff to practice with for less than 2300. TD17 - no MIDI IN and proprietary cable snake, limitations on where you can put sounds and limits on MIDI implementation. Only 2-zone pads. Pad sizes are to a degree irrelevant - 98% of your hits on any drum are within 6" diameter of the centre.
        Other opinions. After playing on small pads for a long time I think your EXS-5 idea is a great setup. Are there cheaper options - of course, but the EXS kits give you large quality pads and cymbals. I am not a DIYer so simplicity is fine with me if you have the budget. Makes things easier. I would say the Strike would also be a good fit as the module is fantastic if you make your own kits (such as importing SD3 sounds into the module) . I am not a fan of the Strike cymbals though. The Td-17 gives you dual zone ability and more sounds to play with. I do think the XD3 is good as well with all the new free kits. I am saving now for just the EXS-5 kit with either XD3 or TD17 as well. I don't think latency will be an issue with the TD-17 and that laptop.

        From my experience, playing on smaller pads is just fine (as mentioned above the playing area is all you need) but I always found it difficult when switching back to a full size acoustic. Likely a mental thing. Having similar sized pads just makes it a but easier to go back and forth.
        Last edited by bluenerd; 10-09-19, 04:22 PM.

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        • #5
          I think you need to think hard about weather you want good sounds from the module or to play SD3. If module then you are probably on the right track. If you would really like to use SD3 and not bothered about the module sounds then go 2nd hand for a used td12/td20/td30. Only the td30 has usb out of those. If you bide you’re time one usually pops up quite cheap. Well it does in the uk I have found. I would still get an external audio interface. The latency through the module interface is ok but to me still has a slightly less immediate feel due to latency. If you want to expand the kit then I would not be too keen on a td17 as has limited trigger ins.also no positional sensing to take advantage of SD3 features.
          Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

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          • #6
            Thank you both!

            Taking into account price, quality and setup the EXS-5 seems to fit the bill kit wise. If i added one more cymbal it would replicate my acoustic kit.

            The problem as you say above is do i want sounds from SD3 or the module. From what i've heard so far it would be SD3. Would i be able to get acceptable sounds out of the TD17 if i spent a few hours tweaking....i have no idea. I would rather avoid second hand if i can (due to past experiences) however it's not ruled out. Without going second hand i'm struggling to find a module as good / better than the TD17 around the same price point.

            Comment


            • #7
              what do you consider cheap? lol
              Roland TD-6v, PD-85 rack toms, PD-105BK floor tom, Mapex snare with ISM-6, PDP MX 22" kick with ISM, iron cobra 900 double pedal, 2x hart e-cymbals, CY-5 as splash, CY-8, PCY-130, CY-12R, an L80 hi-hat with cheap-o trigger with goedrum hi hat controller. EZdrummer2+EZX/Addictive Drums 2 VSTs.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by FlashBlack View Post

                Swapping the ATV module to Roland was mainly to allow for extra inputs if i want to expand the kit, SD3 would purely be for getting better sounds.
                If you're looking for flexibility and extra inputs then don't get anything with a proprietary cable snake and get something with MIDI IN (e.g. not a TD17 ) If you want Roland, then an even-numbered uint.
                *** Never buy a module without MIDI IN ***
                Yamaha & Roland modules. DTX,TM-2, EC-10m, SP-404. Multi12. TrapKat. ControlPads. Octapad, SamplePad, Wavedrum. Handsonic. Dynacord RhythmStick. MPC. Paiste 2002/Signatures. Cajons. Djembes. Darbuka. Windsynth. MIDI Bass. Tenori-on. Zoom ARQ. Synths. Ukes.

                Comment


                • #9
                  electrodrummer wrote:
                  Pad sizes are to a degree irrelevant - 98% of your hits on any drum are within 6" diameter of the centre.
                  Myself, I play all over the surface of a drum, from the very edge all the way to the center. And because of this, I prefer to have larger playing surfaces. There are many reasons, some of which are techniques that require hitting in certain ways and areas, and evoking different sounds and lilts for the groove.

                  For example, on an acoustic drum, the affect of playing ghosts notes in different areas of the head provides a wealth of nuance and expression. On e-drums with Roland's positional sensing, this affect is less pronounced, but it is still there. And even without positional sensing on e-drums, the affect of playing in different areas of the head causes different dynamic response, which in turn provides different textural nuances. Another example is certain drum techniques which better lend themselves to larger sizes - the freehand technique comes to mind. I would not discount the value of larger sizes for toms, either, as there are similar technique-oriented reasons for preferring larger diameters over smaller diameters.

                  There are diminishing returns as one goes larger and larger in diameter, and, of course, there are often space and portability factors to consider. That said, the 6, 8, and 10 inch pad sizes that are the purview of many e-drum offerings really have no basis as ideal drumming sizes. I suspect e-drum manufacturers chose these sizes for ease of manufacturing and decreased shipping costs rather than drumming reasons.
                  Last edited by TangTheHump; 10-11-19, 03:00 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FlashBlack View Post
                    Thank you both!

                    Taking into account price, quality and setup the EXS-5 seems to fit the bill kit wise. If i added one more cymbal it would replicate my acoustic kit.

                    The problem as you say above is do i want sounds from SD3 or the module. From what i've heard so far it would be SD3. Would i be able to get acceptable sounds out of the TD17 if i spent a few hours tweaking....i have no idea. I would rather avoid second hand if i can (due to past experiences) however it's not ruled out. Without going second hand i'm struggling to find a module as good / better than the TD17 around the same price point.
                    If you want pure SD3-like sounds you will have to get a Strike module (check reverb or ebay) and import them or something like a 2box module. Check out DrumTec's videos and Vexpressions, which probably will be the best sounds you will get out of the TD-17. The TD17 and XD3 modules will give you an extra input if you only want a cymbal. You can use splitters, but might not get ideal results.

                    The big question is what do you need SD3 for? I think the module sounds, especially with a downloaded sound pack, are just fine for practice. If you want to record, then get SD3 and a laptop setup with a DAW so you can mix the sounds appropriately for the song.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bluenerd View Post
                      The big question is what do you need SD3 for? I think the module sounds, especially with a downloaded sound pack, are just fine for practice. If you want to record, then get SD3 and a laptop setup with a DAW so you can mix the sounds appropriately for the song.
                      SD3 was purely to get the best sound, as things stand i won't be recording anything. I realise that could be a huge waste of what the software is capable of.

                      The 2box drumit 3 module looks good, more inputs than the TD17, MIDI in and ability to import sounds. Which module could get me closest to the sound of an acoustic kit without SD3? A sensible option could be to decide on a module, then down the line if i aren't satisfied with the sound or want to start recording i could buy SD3. Purely for the purpose of practise and playing along to songs i like the idea of not having to bother with the laptop.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by FlashBlack View Post

                        SD3 was purely to get the best sound, as things stand i won't be recording anything. I realise that could be a huge waste of what the software is capable of.

                        The 2box drumit 3 module looks good, more inputs than the TD17, MIDI in and ability to import sounds. Which module could get me closest to the sound of an acoustic kit without SD3? A sensible option could be to decide on a module, then down the line if i aren't satisfied with the sound or want to start recording i could buy SD3. Purely for the purpose of practise and playing along to songs i like the idea of not having to bother with the laptop.
                        What about using the ATV module and adding a couple of triggers like a Roland TM2? The drumit 3 might be good. If you can afford it,the Pearl Mimic pro is the best.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Peter Warren View Post

                          What about using the ATV module and adding a couple of triggers like a Roland TM2? The drumit 3 might be good. If you can afford it,the Pearl Mimic pro is the best.
                          I've not heard anything other than SD3 that I'm confident I'll be happy with sound wise, so that could be a good shout. That would also be the cheapest.

                          I think I'm correct in saying i could play SD3 sounds direct from the drumit 3 therefore cutting the laptop out completely? The Pearl Mimic Pro is definitely out of my price range unfortunately , im looking to get the full setup for around 2k but will stretch a little further.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            FlashBlack,

                            If you are considering the 2Box DrumIt Three (and indeed, this seems a good choice given your sound quality and I/O requirements), take a look at the 2Box DrumIt Five MkII. DrumIt Five MkII is the most current module from 2Box. It's essentially a DrumIt Three with a few more inputs and outputs, better physical controls on the front panel (more buttons and knobs that make editing easier), and (most importantly) an externally accessible SD card slot. I suspect the DrumIt Five MkII doesn't cost much more than the DrumIt 3, given the two modules are almost identical.

                            DrumIt Five MkII is the only 2Box module that comes from the factory with an externally accessible SD card slot. This makes it easy to move SD cards to a computer for importing VST quality multi-samples, like SD3. There are DIY card slot mods for previous 2Box modules (such as DrumIt Three), but you lose your warranty and risk damaging the module when doing DIY mods. Avoid the hassle and keep your warranty by choosing DrumIt Five MkII.

                            Important: There was a DrumIt Five MkII kit that featured the original DrumIt Five module. This is not the module I'm talking about. The original module does not have an externally accessible SD card slot. The newest 2Box module, confusingly named DrumIt Five MkII, is the module that features the SD card slot. If you go the 2Box route, make sure the seller / vendor understands what you're looking for!
                            Last edited by TangTheHump; 10-11-19, 03:27 PM.

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                            • #15
                              TangTheHump, thank you for the advice.

                              I have had a look for the Drumit 5 mk2 but can't seem to find anywhere that sells it (i'm in the UK). I have found the Drumit 3 for 649 which is 100 more than the Roland, but it seems worth the extra money. However, it looks like i would need a Zourman conversion kit to get the ATV high hat to work and possibly a kit to get the 3 zone ride to work? This is then another 200 on top of the module cost.

                              I think im right in saying that:

                              The TD17 will work straight out of the box with the ATV kit and SD3. Downsides are cable snake, no MIDI out, limited inputs, laptop required.

                              2box 3 or 5mk2 won't work straight out of the box and will need Zourman conversion kits. But has more inputs, no cable snake and SD3 sounds can be loaded straight into it, no laptop required.

                              ​​​​​​​This is a tough one!

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