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  • #31
    So the topic is TD-50 strengths. I'll try and stay on though comparisons are unavoidable and more fun than a basket of baby bunnies. First off it's a module, a dedicated brain and triggers working together far exceeding MIDI triggering in it's digital components, not a latency laden MIDI VST. If you are a fan of PS it is a big strength for the TD-50 especially the digital snare and ride. The ride is the prize.

    When you start comparing modules to VST's it gets tricky. We use SD3 in television music as well as other excellent VST's like Kontakt, Trillion and Arturia VST's to emulate acoustic instruments and analog synths. Other than keyboard instruments VST's are meant to be programmed or played on a keyboard and then smoothed out through editing. Arguably the majority of SD3 owners aren't e drummers in fact I'd bet my rig on it. They are guitar players, keyboard players and producers. You can't compare a self contained module and dedicated triggers like TD-50 with PS to PS in a MIDI based VST that only emulates the module's positional sensing in a very limited way.

    The TD-50 is top choice for those wanting superb and trademark PS inherent in the module. I guess that's obvious. There is a program to make any module add PS to a VST.

    As compared to the TD-50 brain snare and ride PS SD3 translates that clumsily through only 3 zones of articulations from center to edge. There is no blending in the transitions, they are abrupt and you can only modify where the change in tone will take place. Same with the high hat. Abrupt, choppy transitions. This method of transitions in PS and HH opening and closing can't be changed or refuted. It is the way SD3 works. I own it and have bought several packages, used it extensively with the TD-50 as the trigger and while it excels as a highly programmable VST, it does not work all that well triggered by e drums imo.

    However if you use SD3 and want PS, the 50 seems to be the ultimate trigger. However as Chris K points out it would seem any module will now translate PS and 3 zone triggering with a software program, check his post below. I am not suggesting purchasing the TD-50 solely to trigger SD3.

    Yes the acoustic sounds of the SD3 are superior to the TD-50. But at what cost? That's why I bring up the Mimic as a solution to the weaknesses of the TD-50, which includes realistic sounding acoustic instruments. I think this is fair when replying to an initial post gloating on the 50's strengths while discrediting the Mimic at the same time.

    For those thinking the Mimic with a lack of PS means you have to bash away at rock only you are mistaken. The subtlety and nuance of playing the center of the head with superior fluidity and dynamically on an e kit far exceeds having PS for any genre of music. On toms especially, and while faithfully playing as you would play an acoustic kit; you want to hit just a hair off dead center on an acoustic drum to get the full resonance and power of the drum and pull out all of it's tone and play dynamically, rather than from edge to center. There are also sweet spots on cymbals and I will favor superior multisampling and round robin with Mimic to PS on all drums including cymbals to play dynamically on an e kit.

    As the first post hails the TD-50 as having strengths the Mimic doesn't have this is untrue. Imo the Mimic is the superior module on the market, inherently surpassing VST's.

    As to a new module encompassing everything your heart desires coming out at NAMM this Winter I wouldn't hold my breath. You pays your money and you makes your choice as someone once said. That said the Mimic having an open ended platform can continue to compete in the race as other modules become irrefutably outdated (although there are always a few goodies left behind in module evolution so perhaps enjoy what your module currently has to offer and play away and don't be too quick to sell it the second something else comes along).

    TD-50's greatest strength perhaps is it's the flagship Roland module, and offers the most Roland has to give at this point.
    Last edited by Howstamychi; 09-08-19, 05:56 PM. Reason: new PS software available for triggering VSTs.

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    • #32
      I am not sure why some people took such offense to what I said. I am sharing my experience to provide others with some information they may not have. Some posters here made assumptions about me and my set up that are not true. For example, I was not bashing the MP. Also, I was using the MP with a VH-13, not a VH-12. I had been using the TD-50 with a VH-12 because for a long time the MP was on my new set of pads.

      Also, to assume I haven't tried the eq on the mics is a guess and not a good one.

      Now about the word "easy." For those of you with a lot of knowledge about mixing and using effects, I am sure the MP is easy.

      I associate the word easy with the amount of effort required to order food from a restaurant. If you tell someone who doesn't know how to cook that a particular dish is easy, that could be very misleading. I know how to cook some things, so basic cooking is easy to me. But when I was a college student with no experience cooking, even basic cooking was hard to pull off successfully.

      So to be of true service to the people here with limited experience with e-drums, I would be careful about saying something is easy when it requires technical knowledge and digging pretty deep into the module.

      I am not interested in getting into an argument, but I do think it is important to clarify some of what is being posted here so that others can get a better understanding.

      If this forum is going to be a place where people can share information and learn from one another, differing view points need to be respected.
      Last edited by Renegator; 09-08-19, 04:09 PM.
      . . . . . . . . . .
      V stage with TD20 and TDW-20, pd-80s, pd-7s, pd-125, vh-12, cy-12rc, dB 405 L and Yorkville LS 700p
      Core2duo in a Cube with 2 gig of RAM and 2 HDDs, Sonar Producer 6, DFHS Custom and Vintage, and RME Multiface II

      "Make me an instrument of your peace..."

      Comment


      • #33
        And I have a quick question fro Alan. Which of the Vex Professional kits have the dampened toms? I couldn't find them.
        . . . . . . . . . .
        V stage with TD20 and TDW-20, pd-80s, pd-7s, pd-125, vh-12, cy-12rc, dB 405 L and Yorkville LS 700p
        Core2duo in a Cube with 2 gig of RAM and 2 HDDs, Sonar Producer 6, DFHS Custom and Vintage, and RME Multiface II

        "Make me an instrument of your peace..."

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Howstamychi View Post

          However if you use SD3 and want PS, the 50 is the ultimate trigger.

          .
          You can have position sensing without any Roland module using this small software below, cheap price, it enable all module using position sensing, I know someone use it and works great, for people don't want to spend tons of money on module for position sensing here we go https://www.audiofront.net/dspTrigge...dt0AY3pUezumkE
          Last edited by Chris K; 09-08-19, 04:42 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Chris K View Post

            You can have position sensing without any Roland module using this small software below, it enable all module using position sensing, I know someone use it and works great, for people don't want to spend tons of money for position sensing here we go https://www.audiofront.net/dspTrigge...dt0AY3pUezumkE
            Wow nice find Chris. TD-50 may still be the ultimate trigger for SD3 but certainly not the only and certainly not for 5-9k only to use it solely as an SD3 trigger. Or maybe this is better. The strengths of the TD-50 drops.
            Last edited by Howstamychi; 09-08-19, 04:48 PM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Renegator View Post
              Now about the word "easy." For those of you with a lot of knowledge about mixing and using effects, I am sure the MP is easy. So to be of true service to the people here with limited experience with e-drums, I would be careful about saying something is easy when it requires technical knowledge and digging pretty deep into the module.
              There is plenty of people don't know how to mix and don't have experience, only Alan on the market in most case are doing kits for Roland Flagship for that reason, they don't know how to use Roland modeling\mixing\fx are the hardest on the market to achieve, not common on real life sound application, such: live, studio and on the general market.

              Your main problem was toms sustain which is pretty easy to do it.

              Instruments sustain - higher\lower tuning - Range to reduce highest sample on instruments, it does not need to goes deep into the module to change these at all: it's only 2 buttons, Mixer\Mod\ here we go, 2 sec to get there, 3 sliders or one with edit link for muffling, 2 faders tuning\ range on that page, 95% of people have done this, it take few min to tweak.

              The mic is the same edit kit\mic\EQ: 3 buttons. EQ are standard on all module are the same, it's frequency\ standard process.

              Limited people with experience, usually don't use flagship, they use mid and lower end module, TD17 is made for fun and practice, some used live, sound the same on a mix then TD50, out of the box way much better kits then td-50, it use same wav imports engine than td-50, same based sound, same cymbal, same layering, loop, muffling, tuning etc.

              I am sharing also experience for newbie with limited experience to be warned, Roland do not supports product, only fix. TD-50 the most expensive and hardest module on the market to do acceptable drum sound with modeling\mixing\Fx, it require to be modeling engineers and spend lots of time back and forth on all page then most others module on the market, since it's modeling, not pure samples, not common technique, there is much pages, sub page, you cannot get expandable instruments sound pack, imports multi-layering sound like others. Out of the box, not usable preset kit, forced to buy 3rd party preset pack, which is not the case of most others modules have usable kit right away, sound expansion, multi-layering imports, ready to record\play live\practice, include older Roland Flagship, to be of true service to the people here with limited experience with e-drums.

              People that need info for issue, post question on technical section of facebook group, it take few minutes to address these on all brand.
              Last edited by Chris K; 09-08-19, 09:33 PM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by demonocus View Post

                I own the ad5,i upgraded from the td-9 to it around 2 years ago and i find the ad5 triggering to be not as good and i miss stuff from the td-9 like being able to change the room sound,have aux hi hat that's set to closed and the main hi hat set to normal(yes the ad5 can't do this) not having to clone and instrument to edit the zones on the td-9 is also nice,being able to rec right to the module is another td-9 thing i miss and having 99 kits was also nice. Metronome was also nice as well as other little things. I'm also not a fan of the atv sound store ,to me its just micro trans for edrums. Are they trying to be EA games but with edrums? I'm actually thinking about selling my ad5 and going back to my td-9 and than later on getting a td-17 or td-50. The ad5 sounds are fantastic for what they are but the module is just too limited and just doesn't trigger as good as roland modules. I thought i could live with the ad5 limitations because the sounds are so good and i really wanted to love this module but after 2 years with it i kind of regret buying it now.
                TD17 sound the same on a mix then TD50, out of the box way much better kits then td-50, it use same wav imports engine than td-50, same base sound, same cymbal, same layering, muffling, tuning, loop etc. I know you are play speed metal, highly recommended TD17 for this, you don't need all others extra from flagship, you will never use and you live in Canada, the TD-50 would cost you way to much for your need: 3800$ with tax, I know you will like TD-17, all flexibility of Roland base edit sound and good triggering, especially for metal speed, layering kick\snare with wav or layering internal instruments is the way to go.
                Last edited by Chris K; 09-08-19, 07:31 PM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Renegator View Post
                  And I have a quick question fro Alan. Which of the Vex Professional kits have the dampened toms? I couldn't find them.
                  I donít recall, but I donít do a ton of muffling. I just know it can be done. Itís not something a lot of people are looking for, so I generally donít put it on the expansions. However, I have done some considerable muffling with ASR. I donít have my Mimic hooked up right now. Iím working on a video series on the 50.
                  Alan
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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by purpledc View Post
                    The main difference I note between it and the mimic is not so much the capabilities but the fact that the mimic lacks pre processed presets.
                    I met the person at NAMM that recorded it and they are not processed at all. Just great mic placement and room.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Peter Warren View Post

                      I met the person at NAMM that recorded it and they are not processed at all. Just great mic placement and room.
                      yes he means not processed preset.
                      Last edited by Chris K; 09-09-19, 06:30 AM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Howstamychi View Post

                        Wow nice find Chris. TD-50 may still be the ultimate trigger for SD3 but certainly not the only and certainly not for 5-9k only to use it solely as an SD3 trigger. Or maybe this is better. The strengths of the TD-50 drops.
                        One edrum specialist, and he tested most module with VST found the Yamaha I think DTX900 was the best triggering for VST, it was interviewed with Toontrack staff, not sure why the best, maybe easiest to achieve setting plugs and play and dynamic and he was using for positions sensing, https://www.audiofront.net/dspTrigge...dt0AY3pUezumkE
                        Last edited by Chris K; 09-08-19, 07:58 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Chris K View Post

                          There is plenty of people don't know how to mix and don't have experience, only Alan on the market in most case are doing kits for Roland Flagship for that reason, they don't know how to use Roland modeling\mixing\fx are the hardest on the market to achieve, not common on real life sound application, such: live, studio and on the general market.

                          Your main problem was toms sustain which is pretty easy to do it.

                          Instruments sustain - higher\lower tuning - Range to reduce highest sample on instruments, it does not need to goes deep into the module to change these at all: it's only 2 buttons, Edit kit\Mod\ here we go, 2 sec to get there, 3 sliders or one with edit link for muffling, 2 faders tuning\ range on that page, 95% of people have done this, it take few min to tweak.

                          The mic is the same edit kit\mic\EQ: 3 buttons. EQ are standard on all module are the same, it's frequency\ standard process.

                          Limited people with experience, usually don't use flagship, they use mid and lower end module, TD17 is made for fun and practice, some used live, sound the same on a mix then TD50, out of the box way much better kits then td-50, it use same wav imports engine than td-50, same based sound, same cymbal, same layering, loop, muffling, tuning etc.

                          I am sharing also experience for newbie with limited experience to be warned, Roland do not supports product, only fix. TD-50 the most expensive and hardest module on the market to do acceptable drum sound with modeling\mixing\Fx, it require to be modeling engineers and spend lots of time back and forth on all page then most others module on the market, since it's modeling, not pure samples, not common technique, there is much pages, sub page, you cannot get expandable instruments sound pack, imports multi-layering sound like others. Out of the box, not usable preset kit, forced to buy 3rd party preset pack, which is not the case of most others modules have usable kit right away, sound expansion, multi-layering imports, ready to record\play live\practice, include older Roland Flagship, to be of true service to the people here with limited experience with e-drums.

                          People that need info for issue, post question on technical section of facebook group, it take few minutes to address these.
                          Well just for the record, under Edit Kit there is no Mod option. Some of what you are describing is under Mixer, but even then, not everything you have described is visible, as far as I can tell. So unfortunately, one, two, three, snap snap snap isn't playing out the way you described it. I will admit to being hopeful that there was a simple fix that I had overlooked.

                          Similarly, the earlier references by posters about ASR doesn't describe what is in the module, as far as I can see. Under compression, there is an Attack and a Release, but no Sustain. I have tried various compression pre-sets, but none of them got rid of the boomieness I am experiencing.

                          My only point here is that things are a bit more complicated than some are suggesting. For those who find it easy, that's awesome. I suspect I am not the only one who finds the module challenging.

                          But as far as the TD-50, you are right.. It has a lot of pages to drill through, and it is hard to get all of the effects I want. What I was referring to was how easy it is to make certain adjustments just by hitting a pad in order to cycle through the pads. My fat fingers struggle with the MP interface and the need to always scroll and select the pad to be worked on.

                          Also, with Vex packs on both modules, I was hoping for a near turn-key experience. I find it easier to cycle through things on the TD-50 and do some fine tuning. I also found Alan's toms to be much punchier on the TD-50.

                          I did dive back into the snare settings on the MP, and I do see that the top velocity on the rim piezo was low. I will see if raising that helps with the hot spot. I am pretty sure I had played with the head/rim balance.

                          It would be nice to discuss our various points of view without recriminations and implications about people's motives, intelligence, work ethic, etc... We all come here with different backgrounds and different amounts of time that we can dedicate to mastering the details.



                          . . . . . . . . . .
                          V stage with TD20 and TDW-20, pd-80s, pd-7s, pd-125, vh-12, cy-12rc, dB 405 L and Yorkville LS 700p
                          Core2duo in a Cube with 2 gig of RAM and 2 HDDs, Sonar Producer 6, DFHS Custom and Vintage, and RME Multiface II

                          "Make me an instrument of your peace..."

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Renegator View Post

                            Well just for the record, under Edit Kit there is no Mod option. Some of what you are describing is under Mixer, but even then, not everything you have described is visible, as far as I can tell. So unfortunately, one, two, three, snap snap snap isn't playing out the way you described it. I will admit to being hopeful that there was a simple fix that I had overlooked.

                            Similarly, the earlier references by posters about ASR doesn't describe what is in the module, as far as I can see. Under compression, there is an Attack and a Release, but no Sustain. I have tried various compression pre-sets, but none of them got rid of the boomieness I am experiencing.

                            I did dive back into the snare settings on the MP, and I do see that the top velocity on the rim piezo was low. I will see if raising that helps with the hot spot. I am pretty sure I had played with the head/rim balance.

                            Yes MIXER\MOD, when I am not in front I mix menu button sometime, but it take 2 sec, 2 click, to go there, same, if you link edit, it link all mic.To get less boomy on lower frequency EQ number 1-2 mix fx\ Direct Mic\OV, number to lower direction, also tuning raise pitch but reduce lower frequency at the same time, or use smaller toms med toms set, tune them differently. To get more punch on toms, increase 3-4 on mid section panel of eq on mic fx\ direct mic\overhead.

                            if top velocity is low, that will create problem, you need to do capture top velocity not by hand, on zones and others triggers. Some had issue with ATV stock head on triggering, even broken it, they used Roland 2ply and worked perfect, also drum-tec 3 ply not recommended with atv snare, you loose sensitivity. atv stuff might be uneven head, bad head or setting, Howstamychi don't have this issue with his atv kit.

                            But if you have issue, you better open thread on technical section. I don't know why you waited all this time to ask these questions, you have mimic overs min a year.

                            asr.jpg





                            http://pearl-electronics-support.com..._v1.0.8.24.pdf
                            Last edited by Chris K; 09-08-19, 10:51 PM.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Renegator View Post
                              It would be nice to discuss our various points of view without recriminations and implications about people's motives, intelligence, work ethic, etc... We all come here with different backgrounds and different amounts of time that we can dedicate to mastering the details.
                              you started the "td-50 vs mimic" yourself with your very first post. Why bother now ? )))

                              Otherwise it's easy - just ask one simple question without triggering fans/haters of any particular product - and you'll get a simple answer for sure.
                              For example - the question about removing tom ring was asked (and answered) here numerous times.

                              So, if you are starting any A vs B discussion - it's unreasonable to expect any UNBIASED responses =) That is the nature of "A vs B" discussions.

                              And yes, MOD section is just a few taps away from home screen
                              1 - tap MIXER
                              2 - tap MOD
                              3 - tap the instrument you need.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Chance27 View Post

                                If your going to quote me please do it correctly. You left out the biggest reason why I didnít keep the module. I said ďThe Mimics lack of positional sensing, no rim shots for toms and (the most annoying of all) no stick tip sounds for the crashes left me feeling ďmehĒ about the module.Ē

                                I apologize if my wording came across harsh, I really do think the Mimic is a good module but it just didnít tick all the boxes for me at this time. As far as the aD5 goes I only use it for my church as it is small, quick and easy to setup and sounds clean through the PA. My main setup is the TD-50 with VEX Infinity and I love it.

                                I surrender now and will refrain from any further comments. All is good!
                                The reason I didn't quote you on that point is because I wasn't arguing against it.

                                Originally posted by Renegator View Post
                                I am not sure why some people took such offense to what I said. I am sharing my experience to provide others with some information they may not have. Some posters here made assumptions about me and my set up that are not true. For example, I was not bashing the MP. Also, I was using the MP with a VH-13, not a VH-12. I had been using the TD-50 with a VH-12 because for a long time the MP was on my new set of pads.
                                Originally posted by Renegator View Post

                                Also, to assume I haven't tried the eq on the mics is a guess and not a good one.

                                Now about the word "easy." For those of you with a lot of knowledge about mixing and using effects, I am sure the MP is easy.

                                I associate the word easy with the amount of effort required to order food from a restaurant. If you tell someone who doesn't know how to cook that a particular dish is easy, that could be very misleading. I know how to cook some things, so basic cooking is easy to me. But when I was a college student with no experience cooking, even basic cooking was hard to pull off successfully.

                                So to be of true service to the people here with limited experience with e-drums, I would be careful about saying something is easy when it requires technical knowledge and digging pretty deep into the module.

                                I am not interested in getting into an argument, but I do think it is important to clarify some of what is being posted here so that others can get a better understanding.

                                If this forum is going to be a place where people can share information and learn from one another, differing view points need to be respected.


                                Of course differing opinions should be respected. Including those of the people who disagree with you. Respecting anothers right to an opinion does not mean that you have to 1. agree or 2. Not challenge that opinion. As for what is easy and what is not? I had absolutely ZERO experience mixing and recording drums. None at all. So i have to stand by my comments that it is in fact easy. Do people over think it? Yes. Do people second guess their own adjustments? Yes. Do some have a hard time trusting their ear? Yes. But these things will plague any new user of any module if they have no previous experience with it. But when it comes to being able to sit down on a module and just explore the menus and make changes that are pleasing to the ear? I have not experienced a simpler layout nor a more intuitive one. And you can go as deep as you want or as simple as you want. And i just dont agree that anyone who actually sat and read the manual should have any problem with it at all. ESPECIALLY if they read that manual because even that, the layout of the manual and the language it uses is much simpler than most.
                                Last edited by purpledc; 09-09-19, 07:57 AM.

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