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assembling a mini kit

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  • assembling a mini kit

    hey! new here. i'm living in a small place and probably will for the foreseeable future, but want to get some drumming done now that i have a little recording set up going. i don't really have space to trot out and store my ancient yamaha dtx something or other from my storage space, so i have to go tiny. been doing some research and find it hard to believe that the two most popular (best?) options are each over a decade old, but here we are. read and watched a lot, and was leaning toward the octapad but now i'm leaning back toward the yamaha multi 12. maybe you guys can shed some light on the subject for me.

    what i need:
    something small. need to set it up and break it down quickly and easily, and pull it out when i need it.
    send midi to ez drummer 2 in presonus studio one 4. that's literally at least 90% of what i want. it is worthless to me, otherwise.
    expandable. high hat controllers, bass drum controllers, maybe an extra pad or two?

    what i don't need:
    sequencing, looping, samples, etc.
    internal sounds. it would be nice if they weren't bad, i guess, but i just want to use my ez drummer sounds. anything else is just icing.

    fun extras:
    decent percussion sounds
    hand drumming capability
    being able to load my ez drummer 2 sounds in there

    what i know:
    this is a huge compromise and a number of ways. i'm hoping i can deal with it, but won't know if i've made a huge mistake until everything is bought.
    ezdrummer 2 is problematic for this sort of thing. can i get around that somehow?
    without an ipad (which i don't currently have), the yamaha is a nigh unusable nightmare.

    my questions:
    should i be considering something else? it doesn't look that way, but i'm listening.
    is there something coming down the pike i should wait for? hard to believe these are still the only real contenders a decade later.
    i know the multi 12 has no space. would have liked to stuff my ez drummer sounds in there. would they fit in the octapad?
    i have my old yamaha kit to pillage a bass tower, high hat, ride and pads. would they work with the roland? would roland stuff work with the yamaha?

    currently leaning toward the yamaha multi 12 because i might be able to expand it with stuff i have, it seems to have usable hand percussion sounds that are suitable for recording, and it has more pads. though i much prefer the newer, stand/tower free pedals that are being bundled with the octapad, that's $1000 for something that is 10 years old and nobody has them in stock for some baffling reason. i'm normally not opposed to buying used, but used pads that can't be replaced make me a little leery, and i like the bundles that kraft, sweetwater, etc have going. the price of a decent stand for these and a bag or pedal adds up really fast.

    thanks for the help!

  • #2
    Mulit12.
    - decent percussion sounds - yup
    - hand drumming capability - yup - with muting and stuff (bit like a HandSonic)
    - without an ipad (which i don't currently have), the yamaha is a nigh unusable nightmare. Not really. I don't do Apple either
    - being able to load my ez drummer 2 sounds in there - some, yes, not all. You have about 5 mins of sample time. The supplied kits are sampled Yamaha acoustics and are good out of the box. There's also some more you can download.
    - i much prefer the newer, stand/tower free pedals - so, use those. Yamaha sells the KU100 kick. The hat controller HH65 is tower free. Other kicks will work - they're just piezos.


    ....would have liked to stuff my ez drummer sounds in there. would they fit in the octapad?
    Nope. Doesn't support samples.


    You could check the Alesis Strike MultiPad poss.
    Last edited by electrodrummer; 08-01-19, 06:52 AM.
    *** Never buy a module without MIDI IN ***
    Yamaha & Roland modules. DTX,TM-2, EC-10m, SP-404. Multi12. TrapKat. ControlPads. Octapad, SamplePad, Wavedrum. Handsonic. Dynacord RhythmStick. MPC. Paiste 2002/Signatures. Cajons. Djembes. Darbuka. Windsynth. MIDI Bass. Tenori-on. Zoom ARQ. Synths. Ukes.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by electrodrummer View Post
      Mulit12.
      - decent percussion sounds - yup
      - hand drumming capability - yup - with muting and stuff (bit like a HandSonic)
      - without an ipad (which i don't currently have), the yamaha is a nigh unusable nightmare. Not really. I don't do Apple either
      - being able to load my ez drummer 2 sounds in there - some, yes, not all. You have about 5 mins of sample time. The supplied kits are sampled Yamaha acoustics and are good out of the box. There's also some more you can download.
      - i much prefer the newer, stand/tower free pedals - so, use those. Yamaha sells the KU100 kick. The hat controller HH65 is tower free. Other kicks will work - they're just piezos.


      ....would have liked to stuff my ez drummer sounds in there. would they fit in the octapad?
      Nope. Doesn't support samples.


      You could check the Alesis Strike MultiPad poss.
      that was helpful, thanks!

      -interesting. i hadn't seriously considered the alesis as i thought it was more of a sequencer than an instrument (as it were), and it lacks a high hat out. but it does look neat, and it is a whole decade younger than these other guys, so maybe it warrants further looks.

      -i do intend to get an ipad soon, so i figure that would unlock much of the flexibility of the multi 12. i'm not too midi/menu diving savvy so that may be the difference between me playing and me throwing it out a window. assuming the app works, as i've seen there are some issues. i figure it'll be pretty set and forget, though. once i have it doing what i want it to, i don't see myself tweaking endlessly and the regular interface should suffice.

      -i heard the downloadable update eats up most of the space in the multi 12, so i'd have to think about that. but from what i remember, the drum sounds are pretty ok. i just like the ez drummer ones better. i would be able to setup the multi 12 to trigger ez drummer 2 as i see fit, right? because ez drummer 2 doesn't have midi learn, so if it only gives me banks of 12 random pads i have to cycle through, it won't do me much good.

      -would the roland fd9 and kt9/10 work with the multi12? i'm willing to pillage my old kit for parts, but the roland ones seem neater and more sturdy, possibly even more neighbor friendly. it doesn't look like yamaha has made many advancements in this field so i'm guessing i have tp series pads, a kp65 kick tower, pcy100s and rhh135 (or similar) pads to add on to whatever i buy (assuming those old yamaha pads are compatible with a roland or alesis if that's how this plays out).

      -so you get what you get with the octapad sounds, then? interesting, how do the octapad percussion sounds compare to the yamaha ones? i see myself using my own kits, but i'm hoping the included percussion sounds are good enough to record with. from what i can tell so far, the yamaha is probably the winner in the percussion sounds (and feel, playing experience) department.

      -now that i think about it, the i can get around the tiny internal memory of the multi 12 with a roland tp2, right? that may also be a back up solution in case i can't configure the multi 12 to work with drummer 2
      Last edited by feet; 08-01-19, 12:50 PM. Reason: addendum

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      • #4
        Just to clarify, the new Alesis Strike MultiPad does support hi hat controllers. The older Alesis SamplePad range didn't, I don't think. It's a reasonable contender for what you're looking for, I think. But if you're likely to be using the midi out to EZ Drummer, I don't think you'd go particularly wrong with any of them. Though I don't have experience with anything other than the Octapad, I think all of the multipads allow you to swap the midi note numbers on the pads, so you'd be able to match them to the appropriate EZ Drummer sounds then get on with it.

        It likely comes down to how much value you're going to put in the stock sounds and how much sample imports mean to you. The Alesis Strike Multipad has the most storage at 32GB, the Octapad has loads of on board sounds but no sample import and the Yamaha has some decent stock sounds along with the ability to sample import, but only a small amount of memory (512mb, I think).

        electrodrummer is well-versed with the Yamaha models from what I've read before here, so he'll be able to clarify the pads and pedals, but I think Yamaha hi-hats work differently to Roland ones so there might not be compatibility between the two, whereas almost every kick trigger pedal or kick drum pad work exactly the same so you shouldn't have issues there. They're all single piezo, one zone pads or pedals.

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        • #5
          Maybe the Roland td1k is right for you. As far as I know it ticks all the boxes, but isn't really hand playable

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Pulsc View Post
            Just to clarify, the new Alesis Strike MultiPad does support hi hat controllers. The older Alesis SamplePad range didn't, I don't think. It's a reasonable contender for what you're looking for, I think. But if you're likely to be using the midi out to EZ Drummer, I don't think you'd go particularly wrong with any of them. Though I don't have experience with anything other than the Octapad, I think all of the multipads allow you to swap the midi note numbers on the pads, so you'd be able to match them to the appropriate EZ Drummer sounds then get on with it.

            It likely comes down to how much value you're going to put in the stock sounds and how much sample imports mean to you. The Alesis Strike Multipad has the most storage at 32GB, the Octapad has loads of on board sounds but no sample import and the Yamaha has some decent stock sounds along with the ability to sample import, but only a small amount of memory (512mb, I think).

            electrodrummer is well-versed with the Yamaha models from what I've read before here, so he'll be able to clarify the pads and pedals, but I think Yamaha hi-hats work differently to Roland ones so there might not be compatibility between the two, whereas almost every kick trigger pedal or kick drum pad work exactly the same so you shouldn't have issues there. They're all single piezo, one zone pads or pedals.
            i should take a closer look at the alesis. it is newer so there may be less in the way of real world info out there, but it seems like it could work. hard to think that something a decade younger could be worse. but i think i like the layout and extra pads of the yamaha more- i'd have to set this up at a steeper angle to get over that large, useful panel. and i would hope my existing yamaha pads work with it. that may be the deciding factor.

            as for stock sounds and samples: if i can configure whatever to work with ez drummer, they don't mean anything to me at all. if i can't configure it, they'll mean a lot. otherwise, they'll only come into play if i take the thing out of the house, which doesn't seem likely right now. the roland tp2 would be a way around that with the multi 12 and the octapad if it was an issue, but that is one more thing to buy. no such trouble there with the alesis. of course, i am hoping for usable percussion sounds right out of the box, so hopefully they can provide that so i don't have to get a sample pack for that.

            as for the roland tdk1 suggestion: at first i was vaguely offended, but after watching a couple of videos i started to think it could work. my concerns would be that it's much larger and more difficult to store than a pad and i'd probably want to keep upgrading it. but the size and sounds seemed pretty usable, indeed. surprised. one more thing to research, then. my fear with buying a kit is the old "for this much more i can have that", or "for that money, i can get a used this" and then this starts spiraling out into a 12 piece kit, lol. the pad would force me to stay small.

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            • #7
              I have the Alesis Strike Multipad and its a fail as far as a mini kit. THe Hi-hat function does not work well at all and doesn't send proper MIDI notes and the external pad triggers kind of work but each time you change kits your setting are lost. It's been a big disappointment because the hardware is great but their firmware is buggy and unfinished. I will be returning it and going with the Roland Octapad SPD-30 which functions great as a mini kit.

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              • #8
                I did find it interesting (and telling, really) that even in positive reviews/ posts for the alesis, they still wouldn't recommend it as a mini kit over an octopad or multi 12. Which I find odd, if not baffling, but there it is. I also saw that most of the alesis sounds are one shots. Not sure about the others.

                as much, I'm leaving very heavily toward the multi 12 now. My yamaha pads will work, better Roland pads/ triggers will work, I like the layout of the pads, the three extra pads make a difference, and the hand percussion possibilities are intriguing. And it looks like you can trigger loops stored on the iPad, which is interesting, if I understood that correctly. If you could trigger drum sounds from the iPad that would really be something, and solves one of its biggest problems (kind of).

                not sure if I trust a used one, especially since I'd still have to get a bag and a stand for it. Some savings there, but enough to justify the risk?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by feet View Post
                  not sure if I trust a used one, especially since I'd still have to get a bag and a stand for it. Some savings there, but enough to justify the risk?
                  Bag - Gator mixer bag.
                  Stand - any stand you like, don't need to use a Yammy one.

                  Secondhand - no probs - it's a Yammy. Up to you.
                  *** Never buy a module without MIDI IN ***
                  Yamaha & Roland modules. DTX,TM-2, EC-10m, SP-404. Multi12. TrapKat. ControlPads. Octapad, SamplePad, Wavedrum. Handsonic. Dynacord RhythmStick. MPC. Paiste 2002/Signatures. Cajons. Djembes. Darbuka. Windsynth. MIDI Bass. Tenori-on. Zoom ARQ. Synths. Ukes.

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                  • #10
                    i forgot to edit the post but part of why i'm afraid to buy used is the off chance that i simply hate the thing or the concept of a mini kit. not exactly a seller's market for a 10-year-old drum pad. though weirdly, they aren't blowing them out, either. guess that speaks to yamaha quality or market apathy. either way, if i get a new one, i can return it if it doesn't go well.

                    i did recreate the kraft bundle with used parts but it wasn't a crazy steal of a deal like i had hoped. maybe i'll send out a few offers on craigslist and reverb and see if something compelling presents itself.

                    and as an aside, i did visit my storage unit and saw that my old yahama kit is a dtv express iv. and though it is even older than the multipad, those are the same bass drum, high hat, cymbals and drum pads that yamaha is still selling. only the snare pad has been updated since. so they've been pretty disinterested in the market for a long while now.

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                    • #11
                      feet,

                      I think you already ruled out the Alesis Strike Multipad, but in case you didn't, here is another minus. The Strike Multipad only supports two sample layers and the layer switching / blending options are very limited. Essentially, you're talking about an instrument that, for the most part, is triggering single-layer, one-shot samples. Therefore, you will not be able to use the internal sounds of the Strike Multipad and nor will you be able to import better, massively multi-layer samples, so the Strike Multipad is a wash in terms of sound potential. You're better to use the most comfortable and flexible trigger pad you prefer (in this case, that sounds like the Yamaha multi 12) and use that to trigger VST software as you suggested. The Yamaha Multi 12 allows you to use your existing Yamaha pads and hi-hat controller so that's another benefit. It's old technology, yes, but it's also old technology that seems to meet your needs and that's what matters!
                      Last edited by TangTheHump; 08-03-19, 01:10 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Hi feet.

                        I've recently bought a dtx12 to use as a mini kit. I'm using the kt-10 with it (works great), a roland snare (works as a single-zone not properly as a dual-zone yet), and a roland fd-9.

                        The fd-9 works (see other threads on this on this forum, you have to have a stereo-mono cable or equivalent) but I doubt it works as well as a yamaha hh-65. I already had the fd-9 and so I'm willing to spend the time to dial it in, and I'm happy enough with the results (and still tweaking). If I was making a recommendation for someone starting from scratch, I'd recommend purchasing the hh-65 over the fd-9 for this specific purpose.

                        I set everything up without the aid of the ipad, but the manual is as bad as everyone says, and the process is as time consuming as everyone says, but once you begin to learn the menus it is doable.

                        I use my set up to trigger SD-3 and it's fine. I too am not particularly interested in the internal sounds but do plan to set up a 'backup' internal kit in case my laptop running SD-3 fails on a gig. For that purpose, check out this vid:
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9xG...KppFppyYnTMpYB

                        For setting up the hi-hat pedal, I found this vid invaluable:
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg6j...nTMpYB&index=2

                        I'm pretty sure your yamaha hh-65 won't work with roland equipment (see the same threads on using the roland pedals with the dtx12), so that might be another argument for the multi12 over the octopad for you.

                        Whether or not you'll like a mini kit - I guess it's hard to know. There are videos of guys using them as mini kits online. Here are three that helped convince me that I was willing to get it
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEnG8F4IHO0
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXX0V79Uxcc (make sure you watch different sections of this video - plays all kinds of stuff with all kinds of sounds)
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_-7XedrhS0

                        I'll try to upload a pic of my setup so you can get an idea of stand possibilities. I use:
                        normal cymbal stand base; two hardware clamps; percussion L-rod for snare; ball-joint snare basket for dtx12

                        Good luck with whatever you decide
                        Last edited by jackodrum; 08-04-19, 02:00 AM.
                        E-Kits: Roland TD9v1, Yamaha DTX Multi12, Zendrum EXP; FD9, KT10 // Interfaces: Scarlett 2i4, Scarlett 6i6 // Sounds: Superior Drummer 3, Stompblock // Computers: Macbook, imac // Logic, Garageband // Headphones: ATH-M30x // Speakers: Yamaha DBR10, Yamaha HS7s // A-Kits: DIY compact kit, Mapex Meridian // Cymbals: Zildjian Ks, a few As and Sabians, and ...

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                        • #13
                          E-Kits: Roland TD9v1, Yamaha DTX Multi12, Zendrum EXP; FD9, KT10 // Interfaces: Scarlett 2i4, Scarlett 6i6 // Sounds: Superior Drummer 3, Stompblock // Computers: Macbook, imac // Logic, Garageband // Headphones: ATH-M30x // Speakers: Yamaha DBR10, Yamaha HS7s // A-Kits: DIY compact kit, Mapex Meridian // Cymbals: Zildjian Ks, a few As and Sabians, and ...

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                          • #14
                            appreciate the thoughts and those videos!

                            that looks awesome! how stable is that setup? i assumed i'd just get the gibraltar stand and support that most vendors bundle with it, because even though it is a little pricey, the yahama is too, and it clearly sucks. you can see it jiggling in all the demos and i've read several complaints already. i didn't know a basket stand would support it. maybe i already own stuff that might work, then. i'll have to ponder my exact setup, as i assumed i'd only trot out the high had and bass drum triggers and use the dtx multi 12 for everything else. and if that was somehow intolerable, i'd still have a snare and up to three cymbals to fall back on, but that kind of defeats the purpose of this. maybe i'm stuck using the big old yamaha hi hats, as i doubt the hh65 is an upgrade over it, in either functionality or feel, and it's being fussy with your fd9. i will consider a kt10 or kt 9, at some point, however.

                            found a guy near me on craigslist with a month old post so i sent a mildly unrealistic offer and he accepted. we'll meet tomorrow morning and i'll see what happens. it's in "unplayed" condition , but the photos looked promising. would be awesome for me because it would eliminate the taxes and shipping that were inflating prices for me. and i'd have enough left over to grab a bag, a stand and apply the rest toward that ipad i had my eye on, letting me set this thing up with ease. win/win! i was fully ready to buy that octapad bundle for $1000 on monday, but those were sold out everywhere, forcing me to look around at other options. that may have been some incredible luck for me.

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                            • #15
                              iím not a hard hitter (though i do hit hard where the music wants it) but itís plenty stable. the pad sensitivity isnít good enough for what i want in a snare (doesnít pick up ghost notes well), so i use an external snare. but theyíre just fine for everything else. you can set the pad for hand playing and then the ghost notes are fine but a limitation of it is that you have to set a whole row (3 pads) as either hands or sticks. using an external snare gives me snare, cross-stick and rim shot (theoretically- not yet with the roland pad but should be ok with ur yammy pad) which opens up 3 voices on the multi12. i have one of the dtx square pads (bottom row) as hi-hat tip, and the corresponding bottom Ďbumpí pad as hi-hat edge (sd3 articulations might be better than ezd in that regard). gives me good hi-hat playability so i just need a pedal, not a hi-hat pad (which is also why i wanted the kt10). for me, if i have to add an external hi hat, extra pads/cymbals etc then i may as well lug my full roland kit around - thatís just me though. but the external snare is a fair compromise for me
                              E-Kits: Roland TD9v1, Yamaha DTX Multi12, Zendrum EXP; FD9, KT10 // Interfaces: Scarlett 2i4, Scarlett 6i6 // Sounds: Superior Drummer 3, Stompblock // Computers: Macbook, imac // Logic, Garageband // Headphones: ATH-M30x // Speakers: Yamaha DBR10, Yamaha HS7s // A-Kits: DIY compact kit, Mapex Meridian // Cymbals: Zildjian Ks, a few As and Sabians, and ...

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