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Budget Minded Non-Drummer Considering Electronic Courtesy Kit?

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  • Budget Minded Non-Drummer Considering Electronic Courtesy Kit?

    Hi there,

    This is my first post and all, so thanks very much for giving it a read!

    I'm not a drummer I'm a guitarist-singer, but I have friends I jam with on occasion, and I have a nice home music studio etc. I'm thinking of getting an electronic kit so I can more easily host jams at home, given it's a hassle for a drummer to haul their kit in and out. Not only is it time consuming but it bangs up the walls, etc.

    As a courtesy, wall and time saver, etc. I'm considering buying a used electronic kit, and out of the two below listed kits, which one is better, and/or are there others in a similar price range that I should simply wait for used? I like the idea of mesh, at least for the snare because it reduces pad noise and improves feel, but of course the more mesh pads the higher the cost, and since this is simply a courtesy / time saver kit, I'm not willing to spend thousands on a pro setup I'll never use (well I might noodle on it but I doubt I'll take it seriously).

    I'm also considering buying the Alesis Nitro Mesh (brand new) from amazon.ca for $500 (Canadian dollars) because all the snare and tom pads are mesh, the reviews are great, and the price is fair. I'm aware this is not a pro kit, but that's not the point of my purchase, as it should be adequate as a home courtesy / time saver kit I expect.

    I'm not inclined to buy an acoustic kit for the following reasons:
    1. they get too loud too quickly and I need to keep my hearing intact
    2. they take up more space when in use, and are harder to pack away when not in use
    3. they are stuck with the same sound set, whereas with an electronic kit I can trigger software-based sounds
    4. they cause all kinds of annoying resonances when using my studio for purposes other than jamming with friends

    I don't mean to suggest I am not knowledgeable about drums in the general, having been in a number of gigging bands over the decades, plus I was in a duo with a high-end Roland VDrum kit dude, and I got him hooked up with in-ears to a click, his own video monitor, etc. plus I have programmed tons of drums tracks for my solo and duo act, etc.

    I live near Vancouver BC Canada so the links reflect my location and Canadian dollar denomination and my budget is in the $400 - $800 range

    Yamaha DTX502(what would be a fair offering price?)
    https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van...926926232.html

    Roland TD11 (what would be a fair offering price?)
    https://vancouver.craigslist.org/rch...922683782.html




  • #2
    If you can grab a TD-11KV or TD-11KVS (both come with mesh pads) that would be my recommendation. They go for about $1k USD new or slightly less. And you should be able to pick up a used one in good condition for around $700-$800 USD.

    i personally havenít played the Yamaha kit, but I would lean that way over anything Alesis. Not to start a debate, but I previously owned an Alesis kit (Strike Pro) and wouldnít recommend it or anything else they make due to quality control issues...
    Last edited by rdubu; 07-24-19, 10:00 AM.
    Roland TD-50 & eDRUMin Modules | Superior Drummer 3 | Tama A2E w/ R-Drums Triggers | FIELD, ATV, & Roland Cymbals | ACD Unlimited Pedals | Tama & Gibraltar HW | RME HDSPe AIO Interface | Mackie ProFX10v3 Mixer | Simmons DA200S Monitor | V-MODA Crossfade M-100 OEMs & Westone UM Pro 50 IEMs

    Comment


    • #3
      I'd look for something with Roland's mesh heads or Yamaha's silicone.

      Comment


      • #4
        didn't think anyone in canada actually used craigslist, it's all kijiji here

        also agree you should go all mesh.
        Alesis STRIKE, PD-85 rack toms, PD-105BK floor tom, Mapex snare with ISM-6, PDP MX 22" kick with ISM, iron cobra 900 double pedal, hart e-cymbal2, CY-5 as splash, CY-8, CY-12R, L80 hi-hat with cheap-o trigger with goedrum hi hat controller. EZdrummer2+EZX/Addictive Drums 2 VSTs.

        Comment


        • #5
          Go for the Roland TD-11.

          Your drummer will appreciate the KD-9 kick pad and the way it isn't a rock hard brick wall under foot.
          ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ MegaDRUM
          ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
          PA Comparison Sheet

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by winterson View Post
            didn't think anyone in canada actually used craigslist, it's all kijiji here

            also agree you should go all mesh.
            I live near Vancouver BC Canada, and for better or worse, Kijiji is a distant second to Craiglist. Outside of the Alesis all mesh is out of my price range it seems, remember I'm not playing the kit and I'm only providing it as a courtesy and if someone is really inclined to setup their eDrums that would be OK.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rdubu View Post
              If you can grab a TD-11KV or TD-11KVS (both come with mesh pads) that would be my recommendation. They go for about $1k USD new or slightly less. And you should be able to pick up a used one in good condition for around $700-$800 USD.

              i personally havenít played the Yamaha kit, but I would lean that way over anything Alesis. Not to start a debate, but I previously owned an Alesis kit (Strike Pro) and wouldnít recommend it or anything else they make due to quality control issues...
              In Canada the best asking price used for a TD-11 all mesh appears to be $1350 at the present time and that's $550 beyond my top price. Remember this is only a courtesy kit, and I do not have a regular drummer, in fact I do not have any drummer, nor do I need one for my solo or duo. I only want one for the occasional jam with friends as a convenience / courtesy. In truth, if I had the better part of $1500 burning a hole in my pocket, there's a lot of other music gear I would prefer to own, and of which I would get far more use from. Ooops, I might be talking myself out of getting one at all.

              I appreciate all the input, but it seems you guys are thinking about what y'all would want if you came over to jam with me, and not what I would want to provide. I mean it would be great if I was to be a guest at a home jam, and I could list everything I would want as a singer-guitarist beforehand, but in reality I would feel very lucky indeed if the host simply had a decent guitar amp and PA, let alone all the goodies.

              My maximum cost is $800 Canadian and that translates to no more than 600 US.

              Comment


              • #8
                see if you can get the TD-11 guy down to $600, use the extra $200 left in your budget to buy 2-3 (you could make it a 2 tom 4 piece kit instead of 3/5) roland PD-85s or PDX-8s off ebay (average price probably ~$75 CAD, seen some as low as $40 though) and you've got a 4-5 piece all mesh kit for <$800CAD.

                and then maybe a bit later down the line use anything left over from your budget + anything you can get if you can sell the rubber PD-8s the kit comes with to put towards a CY-12 (probably $150-200) ride since the included CY-8s are only dual zone and won't have a bell.

                edit: a yamaha pcy-135 would be a slightly cheaper option for a ride cymbal, there's one on ebay right now ~$140
                Last edited by winterson; 07-25-19, 11:44 AM.
                Alesis STRIKE, PD-85 rack toms, PD-105BK floor tom, Mapex snare with ISM-6, PDP MX 22" kick with ISM, iron cobra 900 double pedal, hart e-cymbal2, CY-5 as splash, CY-8, CY-12R, L80 hi-hat with cheap-o trigger with goedrum hi hat controller. EZdrummer2+EZX/Addictive Drums 2 VSTs.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by puppychumful View Post
                  In Canada the best asking price used for a TD-11 all mesh appears to be $1350 at the present time and that's $550 beyond my top price. Remember this is only a courtesy kit, and I do not have a regular drummer, in fact I do not have any drummer, nor do I need one for my solo or duo. I only want one for the occasional jam with friends as a convenience / courtesy. In truth, if I had the better part of $1500 burning a hole in my pocket, there's a lot of other music gear I would prefer to own, and of which I would get far more use from. Ooops, I might be talking myself out of getting one at all.

                  I appreciate all the input, but it seems you guys are thinking about what y'all would want if you came over to jam with me, and not what I would want to provide. I mean it would be great if I was to be a guest at a home jam, and I could list everything I would want as a singer-guitarist beforehand, but in reality I would feel very lucky indeed if the host simply had a decent guitar amp and PA, let alone all the goodies.

                  My maximum cost is $800 Canadian and that translates to no more than 600 US.
                  So if youíre at a hard budget of $600 USD - check out the Roland TD-1DMK. You should be able to pick one up new for that price and maybe find a used one in good shape for a couple hundred less.

                  The module isnít amazing, but it does the job and the kit is all mesh which any guest drummer will appreciate. For a courtesy kit at your budget, I think it might be right on target...
                  Roland TD-50 & eDRUMin Modules | Superior Drummer 3 | Tama A2E w/ R-Drums Triggers | FIELD, ATV, & Roland Cymbals | ACD Unlimited Pedals | Tama & Gibraltar HW | RME HDSPe AIO Interface | Mackie ProFX10v3 Mixer | Simmons DA200S Monitor | V-MODA Crossfade M-100 OEMs & Westone UM Pro 50 IEMs

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    puppychumful,

                    With e-drums, in my experience, there is a playability level you should not go below - the "no go" zone, as it were. All the kits you listed are in the "no go" zone and your budget ($400 to $800 CAD) puts you in the "no go" zone. As a drummer or as any other kind of musician, you'd only ever use low end e-drums of this type when forced to. Ask yourself, would you be happy playing a toy guitar?

                    To put you in the ballpark of acceptable e-drum playability, I'd say a reasonable starting point is the Roland TD-17KVX. Where you live, the TD-17KVX sells new for $2,200 CAD. Add tax and you'll be around $2,464 CAD. Plus, where you live, you'll get hit with environmental fees (just more taxes in disguise) so that increases the price again. I'd say you'll need a budget of around $2,700 CAD with all taxes and environmental fees included.

                    I'd be surprised if a majority of drummers on this forum don't agree with my thinking. The problem is the price is well out of your budget. You could buy a used TD-17KVXS, but even the used price will be considerably above your budget. So, what should you do?

                    Here's what I actually recommend to stay within your budget. If you live in a detached house or are in a situation where acoustic drums are feasible, go with acoustic drums. Your drummer friends will thank you and *you yourself* will thank you. With a budget of $800 CAD, you can get a very playable set of acoustic drums that includes cymbals. You'll still have to look around, but there are great deals and not so great deals on Craigslist at your price point.

                    Ask your drummer friends to help you filter Craigslist for a high quality acoustic kit within your price range. Also, go to your local drum shops and see what they have on sale. At $800, even new, you can get some high quality acoustic drum sets, but you may not be able to get cymbals too, which is why I suggest buying used.

                    Regarding your concerns about acoustic drums:

                    "1. They get too loud, too quickly, and I need to keep my hearing intact."
                    Wear earplugs or (better) play with capable drummers who can play at any volume required. A good drummer blends with the ensemble, so keep your ensemble volume down and the drummer will follow.

                    "2. They take up more space when in use, and are harder to pack away when not in use."
                    Small acoustic kits and small e-drum kits take up about the same space. With a small acoustic kit, you can stack the drums in a closet, vertically, one drum on top of the other.

                    "3. They are stuck with the same sound set, whereas with an electronic kit I can trigger software-based sounds."
                    An acoustic kit will sound timeless and you can change heads and tune as needed. I'd take well-tuned acoustic drums over low-end e-drums every time. With low end e-drums, the sounds in the module will be unacceptable and you'll be reliant on triggering software, which adds complexity and setup time.

                    "4. They cause all kinds of annoying resonances when using my studio for purposes other than jamming with friends."
                    Throw a blanket over the kit when it is not in use. Problem solved.
                    Last edited by TangTheHump; 07-26-19, 09:12 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I agree with the above. Iíve been for a jam where a low end ekit is used and itís awful and I wouldnít do it again.
                      Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Maybe better to get a cajon than a rubbish vdrum set. I'd have more fun jamming on a wooden box than a crappy sounding and feeling v kit.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Humorously, for those that would be disappointed and discouraged to jam for a casual afternoon on a kit that does not meet their satisfaction, yet they did not spend a penny on, you'd be more than welcome to bring your own should you live in the Lower Mainland area (I promise to supply snacks and I truly am sincere in my offer!).

                          And for those that claim they can play an acoustic kit at modest volumes on a consistent basis over a multi-hour period, I'll simply point out that it often appears to start that way, but rarely (if ever) ends that way, especially given the well documented effect of increasing volume becoming less noticeable over time. Plus the simple fact that I refuse to risk my hearing in any way, plus hearing damage takes place gradually and at dB levels far lower than many people may believe, plus drummers are notorious for not only having hearing loss, but not understanding that they have hearing loss.

                          Yes I live in a big house on acreage, but no I will not risk hearing damage, and no I will not wear ear plugs as I have sensitive ear canals, and yes I was in a duo with a drummer who had a VDrum kit and we could play venues that (I'm sorry to disagree with some of you) an acoustic drummer simply could not gig at the expected modest volume levels.

                          And as for those that ask if I would be happy playing a used guitar and amp costing a total of $600 Canadian (toys I gather to some) I say unequivocally yes, I'll take a used PRS Santana SE and a used Fender GT100 and play any number of tunes and styles with no issues at all i.e. rock, jazz, folk, blues, reggae, funk, pop, country. In fact I could easily gig with those two toys (actually I have with exactly that).

                          That does not mean I would not prefer a selection of my higher end toys, but it sure would not stop me from gigging or for that matter jamming on a Saturday afternoon i.e. TC Helicon VoiceLive 3, Roland VG-99, Roland GR-55, Fishman TriplePlay, Kemper Profiling Amp, Line 6 Helix Floor, iPad, laptop, IEM's, Korg Kronos X, but I digress.

                          I'll digress if I may by pointing out that I bought a TR606 and TB303 when they first came out, and at one point some years after purchase, they were no-value toys, and then a new genre was built around such no-value toys and they became expensive collectable industry standards.

                          I'll digress again if I may by pointing that Frank Zappa often used a guitar amp called the Pignose, a toy by some poster's standards I would assume.

                          I'll digress again if I may by pointing out that when BB King was in his prime, you could have handed him a Chinese 335 copy and a Gorilla guitar amp (toys by some poster's standards I would assume) and he would have blown away legions of guitar players with $10,000 + of high end toys.

                          My last digression (I promise). As to the afmoremtioned commentary on BB King's musicianship overcoming the limits of the equipment, replace the name BB King with the one and only spectacular Lenny Breau!

                          I do thank each poster for their insights, whether I am in agreement with them or not, on topic or not, it has been fun and I wish everyone the best with their music.
                          Last edited by puppychumful; 07-27-19, 06:51 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rdubu View Post

                            So if youíre at a hard budget of $600 USD - check out the Roland TD-1DMK. You should be able to pick one up new for that price and maybe find a used one in good shape for a couple hundred less.

                            The module isn't amazing, but it does the job and the kit is all mesh which any guest drummer will appreciate. For a courtesy kit at your budget, I think it might be right on target...
                            The Roland TD-1DMK costs $1,000 Canadian (including taxes) but it's a thought for used and I thank you. I am not worried about the module's sounds as I have plenty of software.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              puppychumful,

                              You are entitled to buy whatever you want and set whatever rules you wish in your studio and home. With that as a contextual precursor, here are two thoughts on your feedback:

                              (1) About your PRS Santana SE and Fender GT100 reference. That's a real guitar and a real amplifier. These are not toys and though inexpensive, they are just as playable as more expensive guitar equipment. Low end e-drums are truly toy-like are not very playable because they miss 90% of the expressive input, articulation, and dynamics a drummer plays. It's like playing through a brick wall. Nothing you play comes through, which is a horrible experience and very unmusical. Ask your drummer friends what they think of low end e-drums and see what they say. Myself, as NathanE suggested, if loud drumming is a problem, I'd much rather play a Cajon than low end e-drums. As for the Pignose amplifier, I know what those are! A Pignose is still very workable and is fine for low volume situations.

                              (2) You mentioned drummers tend to get louder and louder as rehearsals go on. That's not my experience with drummers of reasonable skill. Drummers are very capable of moderating their volume to play at whatever level is needed; they don't get louder just because they feel like it. As I recommended before, keep you ensemble volume down and the drummer will follow. If your drummer cannot do that, well, you need a better drummer! No e-drum kit can solve a drummer who doesn't know how to blend with an ensemble. Unless you're going to police the volume control, a drummer who cannot blend on acoustic drums will be no better on e-drums.

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