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TD 25 versus TD 17

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  • TD 25 versus TD 17

    I have had more of a chance to play on the 17 at my local music store World of Music in Melbourne. And my thoughts are..

    One of the main gripes I have with the TD25 module is the sound and sensitivity of the cymbals especially the ride. As I have progressed musically I have felt recently that what I am putting in is not generally being translated in the best way possible. This is of course one of the main sticking points with E-Drums and is the consistent topic of machine gunning, hot spots etc that ruin any subtlety when playing. Currently I am fighting the module to try and get a balance between sensitivity etc that allows me to be more expressive. I am no Bill Bruford but I have come on in leaps and bounds over the few years I have taken getting back into drumming and this is one area I am now finding lacking in my current set up. So when I was playing both the Hi Hat (VH 10 ) and the ride (CR 13) on the TD 17 KVX it was a revelation. The cymbals sound pingy and not muffled and the hi hat is crisp and defined. Opening and closing seemed easier with the VH10 and generally it felt a little more refined. So my playing seems ok and I was getting more nuance from these than I have for a long time on the TD 25 with CR 13 and VH 11. So that is a huge plus for this module. In fact it's the single most exciting aspect of it. I thought my playing must be off but now I can see that having a surface that responds well to your subtle strokes is absolutely vital. I also noticed that adjusting the sensitivity in the module gave you a better dynamic range, than the 25. It always seems however lightly I play the snare it never has the subtlety that you'd expect when playing ghost notes.

    Which leads me to the next point. I wasn't a huge fan of the PD12. It doesn't have position sensing like my PDX 100 but even so it just felt a little flimsy. I mean they are cheap enough that ultimately I might get one but for now I think my existing pad would be pretty good. However the problem with the PDX 100 is still the position of the sensor which makes hot spotting easier on this pad. So for now I think that pad PD 12 is a little under cooked. Nice to have the size but flimsy ness is not really what you want at the heart of a drum kit. I am prepared to lose the positional sensing I think because the rest of the kit sounds so much more expressive.

    I guess the other heart of any kit is the kick and the KD 10 seems like a good upgrade to the 9. I have always found the 9 hopelessly unstable so subtle strokes are really quite difficult to play. But the 10 is pretty steady and felt nice and responsive with subtle strokes.

    As to the sounds I think I only found a few of the kits that I really liked. So I would be having them as starting points and would have a lot of fun tweaking I think. However there were a couple like the studio live room that were hugely enjoyable to play. The one aspect which is vastly different to the TD 25 is pad EQ and the ability to selectively send say reverb and fx to the kit on a per pad basis. This is really amazing and allows for a huge amount of customisation. I tried this on a snare adding some lo end and a bit more mid and it changed the sound dramatically. Again this feature alone is worth the upgrade/downgrade of replacing a TD25 with TD17. The TD 25 sound editing capabilities are very, very basic. But in all honesty I think the sounds are well Roland sounds. There's nothing particularly wrong with them but I think the word sterile is what I would use to describe them. They are like taking a drum and taking all the imperfections out. Which of course is what gives most drums their unique character. Having played EZ drummer kits through my TD25 I can attest to the fact that well recorded, resonant unique sounding drums are a pleasure to play.

    So my plan currently is to replace my VH11 KD 9 with the equivalents in the new 17 set and replace my 25 with the 17. I really was very impressed with the playability more than anything and to actually be enjoying playing not second guessing was great. Yes there are still some machine gunny type issues but nowhere near as distracting as I think in the past. To put it in perspective when I played the TD 25 after having a TD 9 for about a year I was blown away by it. I had to have it. The same is true for the 17 module. It just feels way better to play, translating nuance much more accurately and my one huge gripe with the cymbals seemed to have evaporated. They feel metallic and edgy which is perfect. Even though they are rubber!

    If anyone has any thoughts about the TD 25 to TD 17 dilemma which I am sure a few people are having too please chime in. For instance will the TD 17 be a downgrade as a midi controller to the 25. I know I am giving up position sensing on the snare for sure and possible the ride but when I played the ride it honestly felt far more expressive than what I have currently which is CR13 and TD 25.

  • #2
    good review .. if the cymbals are really exact copy of td-50 samples.. (i'd have to check by trying them too)
    then i think you don't need to use vst for cymbals anymore ..

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Ericdrumz View Post
      good review .. if the cymbals are really exact copy of td-50 samples.. (i'd have to check by trying them too)
      then i think you don't need to use vst for cymbals anymore ..
      I think the digital ride might have something to do with the cymbals playability on the TD50. It is gorgeous at capturing very subtle stuff. Shame you need a second mortgage to get your hands on it

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      • #4
        I have seen a few comments about the 12 inch snare pad. Why not just put it on a snare stand? It should be very solid.

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        • #5
          interesting feedback thank you. my only dilemma is how quickly can i replace my td-6 with the td-17 and still use my td-25 for ... given your feedback maybe i push all the TD-25 stuff except for the main snare to the TD-17 and run secondary hi-hat/ride off the TD-25. course soon as i get the 17 they'll drop the replacement for the TD-25 too and i'll have to replace that too hopefully with new digital pads.

          im not a fan of the TD-25 cymbals either - compared to VST they're lacking. compared directly next to TD-6v cymbals and of course the TD-25 sounds amazing but like you - i'm generally unhappy with the cymbals on the TD-25.

          you mention a PD12 pad? I'm unfamiliar with that. if it is mesh with a center piezo then it will give you positional support on the TD-25. I just switched out a PD-120 for a DIY 14" and that PD-120 had positional support.
          TD-25 + TD-6v running - 2 x PD-100s updated with dual Piezo, 3 x PD-120, VH-11, Alesis 16" 3 zone Strike Ride, Alesis 14" Strike crash, 1 x CY-15r, 2 x CY-13r as crash, 1 x Cy-12. iconnectmidi2+ and 2 x iconnect mio for midi triggering.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by thebaronofsd View Post
            interesting feedback thank you. my only dilemma is how quickly can i replace my td-6 with the td-17 and still use my td-25 for ... given your feedback maybe i push all the TD-25 stuff except for the main snare to the TD-17 and run secondary hi-hat/ride off the TD-25. course soon as i get the 17 they'll drop the replacement for the TD-25 too and i'll have to replace that too hopefully with new digital pads.

            im not a fan of the TD-25 cymbals either - compared to VST they're lacking. compared directly next to TD-6v cymbals and of course the TD-25 sounds amazing but like you - i'm generally unhappy with the cymbals on the TD-25.

            you mention a PD12 pad? I'm unfamiliar with that. if it is mesh with a center piezo then it will give you positional support on the TD-25. I just switched out a PD-120 for a DIY 14" and that PD-120 had positional support.
            Sorry I gave the wrong name it is the PDX-12

            https://www.roland.com/us/products/pdx-12/

            It has a side mounted sensor and no positional support aside from being able to distinguish head and rim shots. I was saying I wasnít a huge fan. I like the size but there was something about it that I found lacking. But donít take my word for it. Check it out. I just had a thought that it might make an excellent floor tom.

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            • #7
              ah - right - yes. that new side snare pad lol. I'll trade you a PD-120 for it ;-).

              seriously something i haven't seen clearly from the pics of this new pad, is it dual mount capable similar to the PDX-100 or is it still single roland Vpad holder style? thanks.
              TD-25 + TD-6v running - 2 x PD-100s updated with dual Piezo, 3 x PD-120, VH-11, Alesis 16" 3 zone Strike Ride, Alesis 14" Strike crash, 1 x CY-15r, 2 x CY-13r as crash, 1 x Cy-12. iconnectmidi2+ and 2 x iconnect mio for midi triggering.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Peter Warren View Post
                I have seen a few comments about the 12 inch snare pad. Why not just put it on a snare stand? It should be very solid.
                Itís a combination of things. When you play it you might feel the same. The pad is large and the way it mounts is quite plasticky. This means when you hit the mesh it feels like the whole pad dips. Obviously this is no good to have a playing surface that moves that much. Putting this very shallow mesh head on a snare stand would be overkill too I think. Also the open nature of the underside which exposes the sensor feels like it could easily get damaged unless due care was involved in transportation.

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