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  • #61
    Man, they need to make money and as you mentioned on other topic (GEWA's) most of the people just can't affort to buy real sizes drums and flagship modules.... ATV is offering all range of edrum gear for all budgets, so they are not limiting anything, they just offer what you can pay... If I was them I would do the same

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Chris K View Post
      I believe the lower module don't have sd cards, you cannot load any sound into the module, you are limited from the module sound included.
      Odd way to cut costs as it would prevent those users from spending money at the online sound store.
      Pearl MIMIC Pro, ATV aD5, ATV aDrums

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Chris K View Post
        I believe the lower module don't have sd cards, you cannot load any sound into the module, you are limited from the module sound included.
        Can you please give any proof on that?

        MarkDrum YES e-kit highly modified (DIY hall-sensor based hihat, low-volume trigger cymbals, 16" DIY kick, 12" DIY snare + tom 3), Triggera 10" splash
        Gibraltar 9607NL-DP Legless Hi Hat, Intruder Double Pedal
        Shure SE215 in-ears w. CustomArt silicone tips

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        • #64
          Originally posted by sascha View Post

          Can you please give any proof on that?
          my bad, I thought I saw this before, for now I can only saw without RJ-45 and one external trigger instead of 2, but they added midi out
          Last edited by Chris K; 04-20-18, 10:52 AM.

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          • #65
            Gui Sepultura,

            Man, they need to make money and as you mentioned on other topic (GEWA) most of the people just can't afford to buy real sizes drums and flagship modules. ATV is offering all range of e-drum gear for all budgets, so they are not limiting anything, they just offer what you can pay. If I was them, I would do the same.
            I understand what you are saying, but you missed the core idea of my posts. I'm fine with e-drum companies offering different price levels of gear, but differentiating these by pad sizes is, in my opinion, a significantly flawed methodology. It doesn't cost materially more to make 6 and 8 inch pads versus 12 and 14 inch pads - the build process is the same for all pads and the difference in material costs between sizes typically isn't a major factor. Maybe I'm an oddball. Maybe the drummers I know are equally oddball. One thing I do know is when considering e-drums, many of us choose not to buy when our only choice (due to budget or other factors) is small, toy-like sizes. This is especially true for drummers who play both acoustic and electronic drums.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by TangTheHump View Post
              Gui Sepultura,



              I understand what you are saying, but you missed the core idea of my posts. I'm fine with e-drum companies offering different price levels of gear, but differentiating these by pad sizes is, in my opinion, a significantly flawed methodology. It doesn't cost materially more to make 6 and 8 inch pads versus 12 and 14 inch pads - the build process is the same for all pads and the difference in material costs between sizes typically isn't a major factor. Maybe I'm an oddball. Maybe the drummers I know are equally oddball. One thing I do know is when considering e-drums, many of us choose not to buy when our only choice (due to budget or other factors) is small, toy-like sizes. This is especially true for drummers who play both acoustic and electronic drums.
              It's basic marketing and product differentiation, and this applies to all products on the market - automobiles, kitchen appliances, musical instruments, etc.. They need to offer variations with different options that provide less and more value (irrespective of manufacturing costs), so as to grab market share up and down the value range. If you offer a product at a high price with all the advanced features (aD5 Artist Expanded Kit in this example), you have to take some of them away to address the lower price point. Given that fact (which it is), where would you suggest they remove features to offer a lesser valued product? Pad size, sound quality, module features are examples of where they can apply that approach, since those are the basic features we drummers value. The fact that you want it all at a lower price point only validates that point. We can't have a $2,000 kit with all the features of the aD5 artist expanded kit, or even 80% of them. If you want a full-featured kit, they want your money, and this is how they get it. This is how capitalism works.
              Last edited by jpsquared482; 04-21-18, 11:42 AM.
              ATV aDrums & aD5, Pearl Mimic Pro & DIY, Agean R-series Silent Cymbals, Roland Handsonic HPD-20.

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              • #67
                jpsquared482 wrote:
                It's basic marketing and product differentiation, and this applies to all products on the market - automobiles, kitchen appliances, musical instruments, etc.. They need to offer variations with different options that provide less and more value (irrespective of manufacturing costs), so as to grab market share up and down the value range. If you offer a product at a high price with all the advanced features (aD5 Artist Expanded Kit in this example), you have to take some of them away to address the lower price point. Given that fact (which it is), where would you suggest they remove features to offer a lesser valued product? Pad size, sound quality, module features are examples of where they can apply that approach, since those are the basic features we drummers value. The fact that you want it all at a lower price point only validates that point. We can't have a $2,000 kit with all the features of the aD5 artist expanded kit, or even 80% of them. If you want a full-featured kit, they want your money, and this is how they get it. This is how capitalism works.
                Yes on all your points, I agree. That said, if you remove fundamental features for the sake of price differentiating, it's possible your lower end product will no longer be appealing and thus will not sell. The large majority of acoustic drummers I know (all who are potential e-drum customers) will not buy kits with small, toy-like sizes. Those who can afford high end e-drum prices may buy the higher end kits. Those who cannot afford the high end kits are lost sales. I'm suggesting that there are more lost sales due to the small sizes than the value of the differentiation for the high end kits. Therefore, it behoves e-drum companies to change this and find other price differentiators.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by jpsquared482 View Post

                  It's basic marketing and product differentiation, and this applies to all products on the market - automobiles, kitchen appliances, musical instruments, etc.. They need to offer variations with different options that provide less and more value (irrespective of manufacturing costs), so as to grab market share up and down the value range. If you offer a product at a high price with all the advanced features (aD5 Artist Expanded Kit in this example), you have to take some of them away to address the lower price point. Given that fact (which it is), where would you suggest they remove features to offer a lesser valued product? Pad size, sound quality, module features are examples of where they can apply that approach, since those are the basic features we drummers value. The fact that you want it all at a lower price point only validates that point. We can't have a $2,000 kit with all the features of the aD5 artist expanded kit, or even 80% of them. If you want a full-featured kit, they want your money, and this is how they get it. This is how capitalism works.
                  Amen to that!
                  ATV aDrums, aD5, Mimic Pro, Superior Drummer 3.0, Roland SPD-SX, Tama & DW Hardware.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by TangTheHump View Post

                    Yes on all your points, I agree. That said, if you remove fundamental features for the sake of price differentiating, it's possible your lower end product will no longer be appealing and thus will not sell. The large majority of acoustic drummers I know (all who are potential e-drum customers) will not buy kits with small, toy-like sizes. Those who can afford high end e-drum prices may buy the higher end kits. Those who cannot afford the high end kits are lost sales. I'm suggesting that there are more lost sales due to the small sizes than the value of the differentiation for the high end kits. Therefore, it behoves e-drum companies to change this and find other price differentiators.
                    Tang, what makes a feature fundamental? Is it pads size? Is it the number of pads and cymbals? Is it VST drum sounds? Is it positional sensing? Is it dynamics and sensitivity? Is it the number of inputs? Is it MIDI In and Out? Is it dual zone pads? Is it etc.... As drummers, each of us weigh the importance of these features differently. My perceived value in a feature may be different than yours. What you think to be a fundamental feature I may be able to live with out. Whether it's pad size, VST drum sounds, positional sensing, number of pads, visual appearance, etc... each of these features comes at a cost. As an individual, my perceived value is a result of evaluating the costs and benefits of each feature over another and determining which ones I am willing to pay for in order to get the e-kit that fits my needs.

                    Like JP stated above, manufacturers "need to offer variations with different options that provide less and more value so as to grab market share up and down the value range".

                    I think we should agree to disagree on this topic and move on, as it is starting to get tiresome.
                    ATV aDrums, aD5, Mimic Pro, Superior Drummer 3.0, Roland SPD-SX, Tama & DW Hardware.

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                    • #70
                      Chance27,

                      Chance27 wrote:
                      Tang, what makes a feature fundamental? (snip) As drummers, each of us weigh the importance of these features differently.
                      Fair comments, for sure. And I agree, each of us has different needs and weighs specific features differently.

                      I suppose, were I to answer the question "What makes a feature fundamental?", I'd say consider the following. Save for acoustic drum noise levels, every time an e-drum manufacturer gets one step closer to acoustic drum realism, whether this be sound, response, look, or feel, we all cheer. Look at Mimic Pro. Everyone is excited because there is finally a module that sounds reasonably like acoustic drums. Taken as a whole, these are the fundamental features we all seem to appreciate. As e-drums mature and gain further acceptance, I suspect they'll become reasonably indistinguishable from acoustic drums, in sound, response, look, and feel.

                      Chance27 wrote:
                      I think we should agree to disagree on this topic and move on, as it is starting to get tiresome.
                      This is a fair comment, too. If you'd like to give your feedback or ideas on my comments above, please do and I'll read and refrain from commenting further. Thanks for the respectful discussion. :-)

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        News About the EXS-1 und EXS-2

                        The EXS-1 got an 10Inch Mesh Snare and 3 8Inch Rubber Toms and 3 12 " Cymbals. The Kick Pad will have 5 Inches, No Mesh.

                        The EXS-2 will be the same, except with Mesh Pads for the Toms.


                        Both of them will use the xd3 Drum Module (5 Kits inlcuded), and have no dedicated Hi Hat on a Stand but a Hi Hat Pedal.


                        So I guess the EXS-1 goes up against the TD17-K and the EXS-2 against the TD17-KV: I am wondering how the modules stack up against each other.

                        Because if the EXS-1 is for about the 1000$, there are 2 possibilites: either the xd3 is a killer module for that price or it really is not suitable for a 2300$ Drumset like the EXS-5.

                        If the EXS-1 goes for more than a thousand dollars it can only fail with rubber pads, in my opinion.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by holzi2000 View Post
                          News About the EXS-1 und EXS-2

                          The EXS-1 got an 10Inch Mesh Snare and 3 8Inch Rubber Toms and 3 12 " Cymbals. The Kick Pad will have 5 Inches, No Mesh.

                          The EXS-2 will be the same, except with Mesh Pads for the Toms.


                          Both of them will use the xd3 Drum Module (5 Kits inlcuded), and have no dedicated Hi Hat on a Stand but a Hi Hat Pedal.


                          So I guess the EXS-1 goes up against the TD17-K and the EXS-2 against the TD17-KV: I am wondering how the modules stack up against each other.

                          Because if the EXS-1 is for about the 1000$, there are 2 possibilites: either the xd3 is a killer module for that price or it really is not suitable for a 2300$ Drumset like the EXS-5.

                          If the EXS-1 goes for more than a thousand dollars it can only fail with rubber pads, in my opinion.
                          I find it funny that the cheaper xd3 has MIDI Out. What were they thinking when they omitted it from the aD5?
                          ATV aDrums, aD5, Mimic Pro, Superior Drummer 3.0, Roland SPD-SX, Tama & DW Hardware.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Chance27 View Post

                            I find it funny that the cheaper xd3 has MIDI Out. What were they thinking when they omitted it from the aD5?
                            Hopefully the new 'extension module' will have Midi in/out.

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                            • #74
                              I started to read this as i thought maybe there was the great new brain and the thread sort of went sideways which is cool. I just wanted to comment on it As the drummers i know here is Australia all want the same thing.. A drum kit that looks like a drum kit.. real sizes.. a drum kit that sounds like a really amazing drum kit A drum kit that plays like a drum kit. A drum kit with total volume control that we can use live, practice and studio. when the edrum world builds one of these we wont care about price we will buy it...Hell if i am prepared to spend 10k on a roland how much worse can it get??
                              Last edited by markfireprime; 11-20-18, 07:31 PM.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by jpsquared482 View Post

                                I know; my comment was "tongue in cheek." What I meant was "overseas" is relative. This is an international site, not just US. So, if it's only available "overseas" no one can actually get one, if you think about it.
                                No, you have to buy it in an airplane over the Atlantic or Pacific.

                                That's kind of why I liked the military designations of CONUS and OCONUS (although OCONUS includes parts of the United States) and to me that's where it will get weird.

                                Will this be available in the USVI or Puerto Rico for example? Is ATV treating Hawaii as part of the US or something else, etc. Anyway, I'm of mixed opinions on whether this product should be released in the US or not. They would cannibilize some aDrums sales probably, but not that many, if they had it priced decently they could take away a lot of sales from Alesis and Roland. Part of my gut feeling here is that ATV doesn't feel really ready in the US to truly go head to head with Alesis and Roland at the dealer levels and their aDrums are enough differentiated as a product not to really have to deal with that. These wouldn't be the same way.
                                Mimic+DDTI, ATV aDrums (3 up, 2 down, 3x16" Crash, 1x18" Ride, 1x10" Splash, 1x12" Splash, 1x17" China, 1x14" Hat), Dual CowPaddy, 2xBT1, SPD-SX, Trick Pro1V2 Pedals/Hihat

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