Price haggling lowlifes

[music retailer]

I have never seen such sewer sludge/vultures like some of the people in this forum. You people will do anything you can to get a person to practically sell you something at cost price, at the cost of the salesman commission, and everytime you do that's money out of his pocket. That's how these people make their living.

On top of that nobody is willing to pay the extra $100 or so for good service. It seems no one here really cares about service just $$$$$$$. Remember that next time you "lowlife" someone down in price over the phone, and make yourselves sound like cheap scam artists.

I can't believe some of the post's I've read in here people taking about using other stores to get better prices, because "they would rather shop there because they get better service". THEN PAY THE EXTRA MONEY FOR THE BETTER SERVICE!!!!! At least be that considerate to the salesperson thats helping you out, their services must be good if you would rather shop there. remember every time you "haggle" him down in price, thats food you're taking off of his table, to satisfy your price driven ego battle.

I've actually seen people in here offering to fax copys of their receipts to others here to use as a bargaining tool. WHAT?!?!?! what kind of low life scam is that!?!?!?

You people need to learn the value of service, and that service sometimes comes with a higher pricetag.




[This message has been edited by music retailer (edited February 20, 2001).]

[ADD]

You show me a music store that gives me good service and I will pay the extra hundred dollars or two.
I have yet to get one employee of a music store to go that extra mile for me so until that day I will value MY money over service.

[TomLandin]

Where is is true that some people has miss used and performed questionalbly shopping methods, the fact remains that the $33 trillion dollar a year retail business model is undergoing the biggest paradigm shift in the history of man.

The internet has created a new breed of sharper, wiser and more demanding consumer, and only those retailer's who understand and accept this shift in consumer spending will remain in business in the next 5 years. In fact the experts are predicting that 45% of traditional retail volume will be done over the internet by 2010. I personnaly now do 70% of my shopping, from edrums to toliet paper - over the internet. Time and convienace is money!

The same retailer 'cries of foul' we are hearing today regarding the internet, are the same ones spouted in the '50's when fransishing was introduced (which was almost declared illegal by 1 vote in congress), when multi-level marketing took off in the late '70's (again investigated by the FTC and found to be a legal marketing model), the advent of the Wal-Marts, malls and super malls (again almost successfully declared illegal by the downtown merchant lobbys).

Name calling and mud slinging will never solve anyone's problems. Yes - service is the key. Those 'brick and morter' retailers who provide service will survive. The same for the e-commerace sites, without service, they too will fail, as we are seeing the results of today. In the early days of the automobile, there were over 2500 car manufactures in the U.S. alone. And where are they now?? The same is happening with Internet etailers. But the transfer in retail volume to the internet is occuring at blinding speed.

Each retailer has the option to charge what ever the market will bear. Smart consumers recognize the value of service, but in the absence of reasonable service, the all mighty dollar ultimately casts the final vote (basis Economics 101).

Regarding music shop service, I have to agree with ADD. I can't even get help with drum stick selection, let alone edrum support. The internet has provided me with the service and information I need, and I will continue to shop around, use eBay, and utilize 'moral' price quote comparissions as necessary to meet my musical needs.

[JHH]

AMEN ADD!

[szvook]

[redarrow]

Hey Musicretailer

Mighty strong emotions, must have takin quite some time to have collected all the information you mention about what people do here. Maybe that time would have been better spent reading Dale Carnegies "How to win friends and influence people"...seriously.

Service... Like when I go to my local music retailer and he tells me not to play the instruments,or that I will have to take my purchase to another register because he is busy. Or is "service" making me wait while the "salesperson" finishes his conversation with another employee about how great last nights party was? Or is it the expert opinions and advice like "We dont sell that brand because nobody uses that" Please explain just what service I get in exchange for the salespersons commision.

If you think people should feel responsible for putting food on your table then you should forget about sales and become a Social Worker.

Thanks TomLandin for being the voice of reason.

Yeah...what TomLandin said.




[This message has been edited by redarrow (edited February 20, 2001).]

[JHH]

I can't wait to read the rest of the replies to this post.

I think that this topic will touch a lot of nerves with drummers. My own personal distaste for drum retailers has stemmed from dealing with them over the past +10 years. True there are a select few that provide excellent service, but the majority have left a sour taste in my mouth that will be hard to remove.

It all comes from back in the day when I was "just another kid" in the music store with nary a dollar to spend. I may not have had money but I possessed a wealth of enthusiasm for drumming. Rather than foster the love of drumming in a child and secure a future customer, these people were more interested in tending to their long greasy manes than giving a kid the time of day.

Nowadays, I'm even further turned off by store employees. I'm convinced that these guys have a chop insecurity complex and must assert their dominance to every curious customer that walks in.

I have found the information, technical support, and shared zeal for drumming I seek in forums like this one and the usenet newsgroups.

I agree with TomLandin that retailers that offer great customer service will continue to thrive. I frequent the retailers who have endeared themselves to me through great service. However, I have no qualms about trying to obtain the best possible price

And in response to our friend who originated this post, you sir have the right to sell your gear at whatever price you want and to refuse any customer offer that comes your way. The ball is in your court.

[music retailer]

Originally posted by szvook:

well svook since your so knowledgeable on profit margins why dont you tell me what cost is on a TD-10? And then compare it to what people in here claim to be buying it for. The bottom line is, where do you shop? Sam Ash, Guitar Center, Mars? If you do then yes you will get crappy service since most people working at these stores usually dont have any knowledge about the gear they are selling. When you walk into a store and find someone thats really helped you out and edjucated you on a product and then at the end say well can you match this price? Usually you sohpped it around so hard it the price you give him is about $150.00 above cost price (referring to TD-10/TD-8) and then the guy that just really helped you is thinking "jesus I just made $10.00 commission on this sale and spent an hour, who knows sometimes days with the person. I guess he didnt appreciate it at all" Pretty lame huh? So tell me whats the cost on a TD-10 pro kit if you claim to know?
And did you take into consideration overhead a store has, electricity (alot of electricity being used in mom and pop stores to power up all that gear, rent, water, heating and paying their employees? Not to mention most of these guys get payed $5.00-8.00 an hour. So on some of these sales when a salesperson spends (over a period of days usually) a total of 5 hours sometimes with a customer and ends up with a $10 commision out of it, thats pretty weak. All because he was "haggeled" down in price. Usually most of these guys get paid by the gross profit of the sale. When you haggle him down as low as I've seen in here there is virtually no gross profit left to pay him on.

again take that into consideration.

I personally treat my customers like gold, and I appreciate it when they pay that extra $100.00 in return for my tech knowledge. I've spent days sometimes helping the customer investigate everything on the piece that they need to know about it. Even teach them how to use it in and out. Then after all of that they sometimes go and buy it somwhere else because it was $50.00 cheaper!!!! I think my knowledge and experience with the gear is worth that $50.00.

And yes I am a salesperson and sales margins on Electronic audio device's are about %15-%20 markeup. not much

And to Redarrow, thank you your a prefect example to all of the degredation of humanity in todays society.


[This message has been edited by music retailer (edited February 20, 2001).]

[Arriguy]

Every extra dollar I pay for some piece of gear is food off my table. Who the hell's table do you think I give a damn about, mine or yours? If your service is so great then tell us who you are and the name and location of your store. Then perhaps those in your area will shop there. How about it Mr. Retailer, go ahead and take this opportunity to grab a little free advertisement.

[redarrow]

Originally posted by music retailer:

And to Redarrow, thank you your a prefect example to all of the degredation of humanity in todays society.

Then your world and mind must be a very small place. All you need now is some experience to go along with your vocabulary.

...and your obsession with the size of your sales commission is commendable, I salute you for your openmindedness and being so "above it all". Mother Theresa would be proud of you. I would bet money you are a frustrated college student or recent grad who is having a tough time adjusting to the real world.


[This message has been edited by redarrow (edited February 20, 2001).]

[szvook]

[e-drummer]

I wonder if music retailer is also a musician and has ever actually brought any audio equipment himself (not including his staff discount).
The bottom line is money , make no mistake.
I am guilty of what you accuse us of , in that ive picked a salemans brains for hours and then hit him with the "can you match..." line.
Do I feel guilty , NO.
Arriguy sums it up nicely.
To be perfectly honest I don`t give a damn about your table.
If your job isn`t provinding for you and yours then do something about it.
Lowest possible price = More on my table.
For a saleman like yourself I find it hard that you cant grasp this simple rule of economics.
I do wish you good luck though and hope your table is full.

[music retailer]

Originally posted by Arriguy:
Every extra dollar I pay for some piece of gear is food off my table. Who the hell's table do you think I give a damn about, mine or yours? If your service is so great then tell us who you are and the name and location of your store. Then perhaps those in your area will shop there. How about it Mr. Retailer, go ahead and take this opportunity to grab a little free advertisement.

heh yah the boss would love that one

And yes I do own Music equipment LOTS of it, half was bought at full pop before I worked music retail and the other half during. But that is not the point AT ALL of this post. Lets keep on the topic.

Let me reidorate

TOPIC :
PAYING THE PRICE FOR GOOD SERVICE AND GOOD ADVICE.

If your in the market to buy a V-drum kit you obviously have the money to afford one at full pop (the extra $100-200) that somebody else is charging or you wouldnt be considering it in the first place. Even if a salesperson meets you inbetween the price you would like them to match, they are still dropping the price for you, and by dropping the price for you, you should be thinking " well he is lowering the price for me and has given me really good advice and help, lets do it". Out of common consideration to his best interests in return to him lowering a price for your best interests. The "food on the table issue" has a middle ground.

The common misconception about music retail is that the salesperson is trying to rip you off. Which in MOST cases (not all) NOT true.

this isnt car sales



[This message has been edited by music retailer (edited February 20, 2001).]

[music retailer]

Originally posted by mr man:

Mr Retailman, I gotta tell ya, you got some points but your presentation stinks.

yah I know, I have to work on the presentation part.

[szvook]

Hey music retailer, I think you picked a wrong people to f~~k with! A more subtle approached might have gotten you further.

On this forum, try to find out what people are "hoping" for when it comes to making their decision on a purchase and you might have an idea what approach to use.

You took a step in the right direction when you decided to work in the Music retail business - get inside to get better deals on your OWN gear and that works. But the once that did not take that way, are the once that you are talking too!!! Keep that in mind!

I hope I did not offend anyone else that also works in the Music retail business that did not shoot his or her mouth off.

Lighten up music retailer.



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szvook