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TD-50 versus TD-30 Analysis

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  • #61
    Excellent thread. I was sitting on the fence till fall when either the TD 30 or TD 50 is purchased. Thanks for the very important information.

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    • #62
      Not sure I completely understand this part: "Percussion Sets removed, limiting the number of instruments that can be triggered externally through MIDI and removing the ability to expand the number of trigger inputs available through MIDI."

      Does that mean that you can't just use e.g. an older module to have more inputs and trigger the TD-50 sounds via the older module? And that if you want more inputs, you 'd have to buy a 2nd TD-50?

      (Edit: I never invested in a 2nd module, although I sometimes feel like it, so no experience here. If one were to add a TD-30 as a main module, to a non-expanded TD-20, I guess in that case investing in a TDW-20 - if you could still find one - is just a waste of money, or am I missing something here? Since I guess if you use the TD-30 as main module, you just trigger those sounds via the TD-20, right? And does the SuperNatural technology have some influence on the TD-20 sounds in the TD-30?)

      What is that silent click count? Just a light blinking, as was on the TD-20? As far as the "studying/teaching" part is concerned, I seem to remember that the TD-9 and some other lower modules had some features to show you where you weren't really in/on time, stuff that the TD-20 didn't have. Does the TD-30 have those features? I don't know if it's just me, but some of those missing features that were on the TD-30 scare me a bit for the future (sequencer, pad patterns).
      Last edited by 'lectric drumma; 07-17-17, 06:30 AM.
      'lectric drumma
      Roland TD-20, Hart Dynamics 7.6, 2 x PD-7, extra PD-7 and Hart Snare laying around, Vic Firth Dave Weckl signature sticks, Axis A-longboards double pedal, Sony MDR-CD780 headphones and not enough inputs.

      Comment


      • #63
        lectric drumma,

        "Not sure I completely understand this part: Percussion Sets removed, limiting the number of instruments that can be triggered externally through MIDI and removing the ability to expand the number of trigger inputs available through MIDI."

        In Roland flagship modules prior to TD-50 and in many Roland keyboards, Percussion Sets are how one maps drum instruments to keys of a MIDI keyboard and to MIDI note numbers. Each key / note number can have a different drum instrument assigned, allowing for many sounds in the module to be triggered through MIDI. You can use a Trigger To MIDI device, second drum module, DAW / sequencer software, or anything that outputs MIDI through a MIDI or USB connector to trigger the host drum module. Thus, for example, with the TD-30, if you run out of physical trigger inputs, you can plug a MIDI device into the TD-30 and use Percussion Set mappings to assign sounds, thus increasing the number of trigger inputs. In essence, the additional trigger inputs provided by Percussion Sets are virtual trigger inputs. The TD-50 does not have Percussion Sets and it doesn't have an alternative MIDI to MIDI keyboard mapping feature. Thus, with the TD-50, while you can map its physical trigger inputs to MIDI note numbers, you cannot create additional virtual trigger inputs, as one does on previous Roland flagship modules. Therefore, with the TD-50, even if you add a second drum module, you cannot trigger any more sounds in the TD-50 than its physical trigger inputs allow.

        "As far as the studying / teaching part is concerned, I seem to remember that the TD-9 and some other lower modules had some features to show you where you weren't really in / on time, stuff that the TD-20 didn't have. Does the TD-30 have those features?"

        I've always found it odd that Roland doesn't include training features in their flagship modules, especially given they include these features in lower modules like TD-9. That said, yes, it's true that the various training modes of the TD-9 are not available in the TD-30.

        "I don't know if it's just me, but some of those missing features that were on the TD-30 scare me a bit for the future (sequencer, pad patterns)."

        The sequencer is one of the features I use most in the TD-30. Thus, the dumbing down of the sequencer in the TD-50 is a key reason I backed away from the TD-50. The TD-50 turns the sequencer into a real time recorder. You can only record in real time and you can only record and access a single sequence at a time. Yes, you can save and load sequences, but you cannot have multiple sequences simultaneously loaded and accessible as one does on the TD-30. Also, the TD-50 does not allow overdubbing, copying and pasting, deleting and extending portions of sequences, changing bar lines, and other editing features. Often, I use the TD-30's sequencer for building and teaching drum patterns one instrument at a time. Record the bass drum part. Now, while listening to the bass drum part, record the snare drum part. Add a hi-hat part in another pass. And so on. You cannot do this on the TD-50.
        Last edited by TangTheHump; 07-17-17, 12:02 PM.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by TangTheHump View Post
          lectric drumma,

          "Not sure I completely understand this part: Percussion Sets removed, limiting the number of instruments that can be triggered externally through MIDI and removing the ability to expand the number of trigger inputs available through MIDI."

          In Roland flagship modules prior to TD-50 and in many Roland keyboards, Percussion Sets are how one maps drum instruments to keys of a MIDI keyboard and to MIDI note numbers. Each key / note number can have a different drum instrument assigned, allowing for many sounds in the module to be triggered through MIDI. You can use a Trigger To MIDI device, second drum module, DAW / sequencer software, or anything that outputs MIDI through a MIDI or USB connector to trigger the host drum module. Thus, for example, with the TD-30, if you run out of physical trigger inputs, you can plug a MIDI device into the TD-30 and use Percussion Set mappings to assign sounds, thus increasing the number of trigger inputs. In essence, the additional trigger inputs provided by Percussion Sets are virtual trigger inputs. The TD-50 does not have Percussion Sets and it doesn't have an alternative MIDI to MIDI keyboard mapping feature. Thus, with the TD-50, while you can map its physical trigger inputs to MIDI note numbers, you cannot create additional virtual trigger inputs, as one does on previous Roland flagship modules. Therefore, with the TD-50, even if you add a second drum module, you cannot trigger any more sounds in the TD-50 than its physical trigger inputs allow.

          "As far as the studying / teaching part is concerned, I seem to remember that the TD-9 and some other lower modules had some features to show you where you weren't really in / on time, stuff that the TD-20 didn't have. Does the TD-30 have those features?"

          I've always found it odd that Roland doesn't include training features in their flagship modules, especially given they include these features in lower modules like TD-9. That said, yes, it's true that the various training modes of the TD-9 are not available in the TD-30.

          "I don't know if it's just me, but some of those missing features that were on the TD-30 scare me a bit for the future (sequencer, pad patterns)."

          The sequencer is one of the features I use most in the TD-30. Thus, the dumbing down of the sequencer in the TD-50 is a key reason I backed away from the TD-50. The TD-50 turns the sequencer into a real time recorder. You can only record in real time and you can only record and access a single sequence at a time. Yes, you can save and load sequences, but you cannot have multiple sequences simultaneously loaded and accessible as one does on the TD-30. Also, the TD-50 does not allow overdubbing, copying and pasting, deleting and extending portions of sequences, changing bar lines, and other editing features. Often, I use the TD-30's sequencer for building and teaching drum patterns one instrument at a time. Record the bass drum part. Now, while listening to the bass drum part, record the snare drum part. Add a hi-hat part in another pass. And so on. You cannot do this on the TD-50.
          Thanks for the explanations. When you are talking about the host module, you are referring to the main module, right? Say, TD-20 is the main module, and the TD-12 is used to have extra inputs, so via the TD-12, you trigger TD-20 sounds, right? So with the TD-50, what's the point of MIDI, just being able to trigger VST-sounds? So where in the TD-20 & TD-12 case, one would use the TD-20 as main unit and trigger it's sounds from through the TD-12, with the TD-50, one would not send out notes to another device, since not possible, but trigger sounds from another source? Simplified, TD20 sends MIDI out to TD-12, so the TD-12 uses the TD-20 sounds, where as a VST library sends MIDI out to the TD-50, so the TD-50 has a MIDI in and uses the VST-sounds, right?

          TD-9 and studying-features... odd indeed, but I assume Rolands reasoning is that a student doesn't need/won't buy a high end kit, where as a more pro-level player won't need the study-features. But I don't really follow that logic - if that is there logic. E.g., my first kit was a TD-10, and I only upgraded back in the days to a TD-20 because of the difference in technology between both. So yes, it's sad that the studying-features are not in the high-end kits.

          Is it possible to play back e.g. MP3's automatically from the TD-30 or TD-50? Or do you still need an MP3-player via the aux-in?

          Sorry if I'm highjacking your thread!
          'lectric drumma
          Roland TD-20, Hart Dynamics 7.6, 2 x PD-7, extra PD-7 and Hart Snare laying around, Vic Firth Dave Weckl signature sticks, Axis A-longboards double pedal, Sony MDR-CD780 headphones and not enough inputs.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by 'lectric drumma View Post
            ...Simplified, TD20 sends MIDI out to TD-12, so the TD-12 uses the TD-20 sounds, where as a VST library sends MIDI out to the TD-50, so the TD-50 has a MIDI in and uses the VST-sounds, right?
            You're saying this back to front. The MIDI output goes from the module that receives trigger signals to the MIDI input of the device that will generate the sounds.

            So in the examples you cite, the TD20 receives MIDI input from the TD-12, and a VST receives MIDI input from a TD-50 in order to generate VST sounds based on the triggering data supplied by the TD-50.

            Originally posted by 'lectric drumma View Post
            ...TD-9 and studying-features... odd indeed, but I assume Rolands reasoning is that a student doesn't need/won't buy a high end kit, where as a more pro-level player won't need the study-features. But I don't really follow that logic - if that is there logic...
            Makes a lot of sense to me. Harley Davidson motorcycles don't come with training wheels. Steinway grand pianos don't come with coloured letters inscribed on the keys.

            I absolutely don't want and would not buy a high end module where I was paying for beginner features that could only ever get in the way. I think it's totally reasonable to expect people who need a student mode to buy a student instrument, and 'graduate' to a kit with professional features when they are ready.

            Originally posted by 'lectric drumma View Post
            Is it possible to play back e.g. MP3's automatically from the TD-30 or TD-50? Or do you still need an MP3-player via the aux-in?
            Yes, it is possible in both modules.

            TD-30 manual, page 85: "The song player lets you play back audio les (WAV, MP3) saved on a USB ash drive."
            TD-50 manual, page 14: "An audio le (WAV or MP3) on an SD card can also be played back as a song."

            Last edited by CobaltSky; 07-17-17, 11:42 PM.
            TD-50KV extended kit with KD-A22 kick, DW pedals/stands. SPD-30 and SPD-SX. TD-30 for additional triggers & layering. Muse Receptor 2+ Pro w/ SD v2.4.4.

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            • #66
              lectric drumma,

              "When you are talking about the host module, you are referring to the main module, right?"

              Yes.


              "Say, TD-20 is the main module, and the TD-12 is used to have extra inputs, so via the TD-12, you trigger TD-20 sounds, right?"

              Yes.

              "So with the TD-50, what's the point of MIDI, just being able to trigger VST-sounds?"

              You can use MIDI Out and MIDI In with the TD-50. You use MIDI Out to trigger VST libraries, record into a DAW sequencer, or trigger any external MIDI device. You use MIDI In to trigger TD-50 sounds from an external source, such as a DAW sequencer, keyboard, or second drum module. The only restriction with the TD-50 in regard to MIDI In is you cannot trigger more sounds than the number of physical trigger inputs allow. The physical trigger inputs themselves do not come into play when triggering through MIDI In. However, the only way to map MIDI note numbers to TD-50 instruments is to assign pads to physical trigger inputs and then assign note numbers to zones of the pads. There is no additional functionality, such as the Percussion Sets of the TD-30, to allow mapping more instruments than the number of physical trigger inputs allow.

              "So where in the TD-20 and TD-12 case, one would use the TD-20 as main unit and trigger its sounds from through the TD-12, with the TD-50 one would not send out notes to another device, since not possible, but trigger sounds from another source? Simplified, TD20 sends MIDI out to TD-12, so the TD-12 uses the TD-20 sounds, where as a VST library sends MIDI out to the TD-50, so the TD-50 has a MIDI in and uses the VST-sounds, right?"

              I think you've got this backward. When using a host module as a sound source (in this case, the TD-50), you take MIDI Out from an external device (such as from a computer running DAW software) and plug this into MIDI In of the TD-50. This allows the external device to trigger sounds in the TD-50. You can still trigger sounds in the TD-50 just as you can in previous flagship modules. However, you cannot trigger more sounds than the number of physical trigger inputs allow, due to the reasons I described above.

              With other Roland flagship modules, such as TD-20 and TD-30, you can use MIDI In and Percussion Sets to trigger additional instruments over and above what the module's physical trigger inputs provide for. In this way, you can use an external drum module, such as a TD-12, to add more trigger inputs. This doesn't work with the TD-50 due to the TD-50's lack of Percussion Sets and lack of any equivalent MIDI note number mapping feature.
              Last edited by TangTheHump; 07-18-17, 11:51 AM.

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              • #67
                OK, good to know about the MIDI... So sad for the TD-50.

                Not sure that I agree on the training-tools CobaltSky. As far as your comparison goes to motorcycles... I'm a motorcyclist, I'm driving bikes on a nearly daily basis for 18 years now. But that doesn't mean that I don't go practicing manoeuvers from time to time. Same goes for drumming as far as I'm concerned, it's not because you're a pro-level player (which I am not, just to be clear) that you don't have to practice. But anyway, each his own opinion of course. I just think it's sad that in the high-end range TD's that feature isn't included. It's not that it would be that difficult to include, and I think for the price we pay, I could easily be included. If a 20 year old wants to play an e-drum kit, why force him on an entry-level first, only to sell it after a few years...

                OK, so if I understand correctly, playback from a USB isn't possible anymore on the TD-50, but an SD-card still allows you to do so.
                'lectric drumma
                Roland TD-20, Hart Dynamics 7.6, 2 x PD-7, extra PD-7 and Hart Snare laying around, Vic Firth Dave Weckl signature sticks, Axis A-longboards double pedal, Sony MDR-CD780 headphones and not enough inputs.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by 'lectric drumma View Post
                  Not sure that I agree on the training-tools CobaltSky. As far as your comparison goes to motorcycles... I'm a motorcyclist, I'm driving bikes on a nearly daily basis for 18 years now. But that doesn't mean that I don't go practicing manoeuvers from time to time.
                  Notice that I didn't say anything about not needing to practice at any level. Just that not all motorcycles need to have training wheels fitted as standard (and compulsory) equipment. ; )

                  Originally posted by 'lectric drumma View Post
                  OK, so if I understand correctly, playback from a USB isn't possible anymore on the TD-50, but an SD-card still allows you to do so.
                  If you mean a USB memory stick, then that's correct. There is no support for USB memory on the TD-50 - instead, a SD-card slot is provided.
                  Last edited by CobaltSky; 07-18-17, 11:52 PM.
                  TD-50KV extended kit with KD-A22 kick, DW pedals/stands. SPD-30 and SPD-SX. TD-30 for additional triggers & layering. Muse Receptor 2+ Pro w/ SD v2.4.4.

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                  • #69
                    Is there any advantage to having the td50 + digital snare/ride when triggering VSTs?

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by mesharound View Post
                      Is there any advantage to having the td50 + digital snare/ride when triggering VSTs?
                      I would say yes. The dynamics, senstivity and playabilty of the digtal ride and snare is retained while using VST like SD3. Plus on the snare, the cross stick feature works perfectly.
                      ATV aDrums, TD-50, aD5, Superior Drummer 3.0, Roland SPD-SX, Tama & DW Hardware.

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                      • #71
                        It would make it the worlds most expensive midi controller though!
                        "It makes sense if you dont think about it"

                        Mimic Pro, SPD-SX, 2-QSC K-10s, K-sub, Yamaha mixer, and a bunch of other expensive cool things!

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                        • #72
                          Other than saving $ 50 all the way over the 30. Thanks.

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