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  • I like what I saw. They could come up in the not far away future with an all digital kit.... Why not???? At the end of the day, the current pads are door bell technology!!!!! Welcome 2016!!!

    As Alan and others mentioned, waiting to hear more sounds and also dying for an inwards pic of the snare pad. The 14" inch snare is nice... But wonder if they will ever release a 12" digital snare.

    the 22" is nice but where are deeper toms??? Just wish they had the toms a bit deeper and bigger diameter for the floor toms ( 14"?????) that would be a nice s.o.b. Of a kit!!!!

    Waiting on the sounds to make a decision: give me at least four great kits .... With decent toms( i really dislike the td30 tom sounds) ..

    Pim
    Roland TD50, Roland PM30 and KC 550 Studio Capture /Dell XPS I7 16GB RAM Reaper,Superior Drummer,BFD3 (all exp. packs),SSD 4.0, Studio Drummer and Abbey Road packs from Native, Ezdrummer 2, XLN Addictive Drums

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    • Originally posted by Rhappy-dude View Post

      Well hearing loss is a delicate matter...
      I wasn't judging it by "hearing"... I was judging by monitoring the actual digital output at the DAW. If it shows zero signal, then there is zero noise. Sounds more like a personal setup issue on your end. If you get noise, it's usually related to faulty ground, and you'll see it in the signal. Debate aside, it's been years since I've even experienced any ground/noise issue, so I cannot comment based on any recent activity. Again, I think this sounds more like some local issue you're experiencing.
      Alan
      _________________________________________
      visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

      Comment


      • How come I never hear a single hot spot issue with any of the TD series demos from the 50 going way back yet I have hot spots on all pads that happen all the time, I just can't dial the hot spots out. Is there some magic settings that I'm missing? I'm not the hardest hitter.

        I find this odd.
        Roland TD-30, TD-12, Roland Pads/Cymbals
        SD2, EZD2, QSC K12s

        Comment


        • After listening over and over..the TD-50 is def a step forward in realism. A couple of observations I've noticed...cymbals are not rehashed older CY-14C and CY-15R with white on bottom. They are like the MG cymbals with a black underside and am curious as to whether anything has been improved on them including the VH-13. The new ride cymbal bell is not very large in diameter, but is more prominent compared to CY-15R. The new features on the module and design make this a bigger step forward than TD20X to TD-30. Now some nitpicks and wish list...I would like a 13" hi hat bc now with larger snare and my double bass pedals means it will be further away and not as close in to the kit, larger and deeper floor toms (14'' would be acceptable with new snare depth), and also BD conversion is interesting since now the kick won't have same finish as toms unless you can add a wrap to the shell that matches. Anyways, this is a step forward and wondering what the extra usb input is for?

          Comment


          • Something that occurs to me is that because both the new snare and ride each have 3 sensors on the head/bow, they might be triangulating the positional information of where the stick strikes the surface by using the slight difference in time between the signals received from the 3 sensors, instead of looking at the difference in signal strength between sensors which would be less accurate, or analysing the shape of the initial waveform vibration as they did in the past with a single sensor. If they are able to triangulate (by a rapid calculation either in the digital pad's own electronics or back in the main module) then I expect the positional information will be far more accurate than before (and potentially 2 dimensional instead of 1 dimensional although there might be little benefit of that on a typical round shaped drum or cymbal unless you wanted to use position like an XY pad to control other parameters like cross fading samples, effect levels, etc), and this really would be a technological step forward for the digital pads. Roland like to give silly names to their technologies so they would probably have trademarked "Triggernomic pad engine" by now if that's how it works!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by pumpal View Post
              Didn't thought about that - you may be right - it would make sense looking at it from that pov. But the BD is not one of the new digital pads, it connects to the same old TRS input and there is no touch sensor on it, am I wrong ? Actually we are not sure what it is. At the begining of the first video he said you can put just the head on any BD and make it an e-BD but didn't mention the technology used. So I assumed it is a FSR if the sensor is bult into it. But then It got to be mesh for noise considerations... Could it be they just stuck the piezo between the layers somehow? I can imagine it would work even that way for a BD .. but won't provide any such advanced detection capabilities if so.. or they put only a small diameter FSR piece only around the center . oh, well, we will see
              I don't see any indication of FSR for BD. The BD connects via 1/4" cable. FSR requires power. With the USB digital connected pads the USB does provide power for the processing components in the Ride and Snare, which might indicate FSR in those pads, dunno. But there is no indication that power is being supplied to the BD, including no indication by the Module specs. I assume the BD is a simple Piezo trigger. Mario at Alternative mode, and the In Head, On Head ..... stuff initially were going to go FSR for the BD, but later changed to Piezo as they had better results with piezo triggered BD ...... Just my 2 cents.
              I could tell you where to stick that piezo! ;)
              Stealthdrums.com Mega Kit: Powered by the TD-50, 2Box modules,(Mimic coming), drums and cymbals too many to count. VST quality sounds loaded into and played directly from the 2Box modules. Visit me anytime at: http://stealthdrums.com/

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Alan VEX View Post

                I wasn't judging it by "hearing"... I was judging by monitoring the actual digital output at the DAW. If it shows zero signal, then there is zero noise. Sounds more like a personal setup issue on your end. If you get noise, it's usually related to faulty ground, and you'll see it in the signal. Debate aside, it's been years since I've even experienced any ground/noise issue, so I cannot comment based on any recent activity. Again, I think this sounds more like some local issue you're experiencing.
                Well I thought it was trivial the hiss applies to analog output only... USB outputs are not hissy, even on the lowest low end product. There might be a ground loop in the usb path, but that's not what is happening here. If you were to record the analog jack output from the TD-30 into your soundcard, you would have noise as well, this hiss plus the soundcard noise in itself. It's not that the TD-30 is particularly noisy, it's just that, compared to the Integra-7 which is the same generation, the same processor and sound chip, but with higher sampling rate capability, the TD-30 has a much nastier analog output. As I said before, on the Integra-7, at 44,1kHz the his is there also, and it vanishes totally at 96kHz.

                It might be my TD-30 has tired output capacitors, but I doubt it, it's not the typical whistling of a dying capacitor I hear, it's just plain white noise hiss. It's not a concern of worry, only, compared to the other same generation Roland gear with a proper 96kHz interface, it's noticeable when unplugging the headphones jack the hiss stops. On the other gear, it makes no difference if the jack is plugged or not, when it's on it's the same dead silence, at 96kHz. So I believe it's safe to say Roland treated the synth expander with more care regarding to this issue than it treated the TD-30. On the TD-50, they specify that the device is capable of 96kHz I/O but only via an interpolation, as the samples themselves are treated @ 44,1kHz. It means they didn't manufacture a cpu and a cpu chip fast enough to handle the data flow at 96kHz, or they didn't bother recording the hi res samples with the studio standard 96kHz, or they didn't thought their customers were worth the spending of a proper DAC inside the TD-50 (but they still ask for more money though...)

                If they had work with samples, it would have been extremely complicated to read dozens of samples at the same time at such a sampling rate given the power consumption and thus the computing ability of the electronics behind. But working with synth engine, there is no reason why they didn't implement this hi res sampling rate, other than they thought you wouldn't care, or hear the difference, or bother. Or they cut the costs (but not the price obviously)

                Also, the Axe FX II was born in 2011, 5 years ago...

                So but practically speaking it doesn't change anything, it will still work perfectly fine at 44.1kHz or at 96kHz interpolated. But the fact they included this interpolation is strange, they seem to admit the use of this sampling rate in modern days music making in a DAW, but still they stood with their old standard... Once again, as if things had been rushed with this module, or corners cut. Then ok, but you can notice it is the most expansive on the market, so is it the price that is too high, or the specs that are not up to speed, either way, it's not very engaging. I would be ready to pay the price if I had the feeling it was well deserved. Here I have some very mixed feelings about several details in the TD-50, so my satisfaction if I was to buy it would be at risk to realize later the price was really not justified, and this is up to a point I might as well consider not going for it at all. I guess these elements will be part of the equation as well for many other people, and that's why in the end it's a pity they didn't really either cut the price or raise the quality up to it totally.
                Last edited by Rhappy-dude; 09-11-16, 03:50 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Rhappy-dude View Post

                  Well I thought it was trivial the hiss applies to analog output only... USB outputs are not hissy, even on the lowest low end product. There might be a ground loop in the usb path, but that's not what is happening here. If you were to record the analog jack output from the TD-30 into your soundcard, you would have noise as well, this hiss plus the soundcard noise in itself. It's not that the TD-30 is particularly noisy, it's just that, compared to the Integra-7 which is the same generation, the same processor and sound chip, but with higher sampling rate capability, the TD-30 has a much nastier analog output. As I said before, on the Integra-7, at 44,1kHz the his is there also, and it vanishes totally at 96kHz.

                  It might be my TD-30 has tired output capacitors, but I doubt it, it's not the typical whistling of a dying capacitor I hear, it's just plain white noise hiss. It's not a concern of worry, only, compared to the other same generation Roland gear with a proper 96kHz interface, it's noticeable when unplugging the headphones jack the hiss stops. On the other gear, it makes no difference if the jack is plugged or not, when it's on it's the same dead silence, at 96kHz. So I believe it's safe to say Roland treated the synth expander with more care regarding to this issue than it treated the TD-30. On the TD-50, they specify that the device is capable of 96kHz I/O but only via an interpolation, as the samples themselves are treated @ 44,1kHz. It means they didn't manufacture a cpu and a cpu chip fast enough to handle the data flow at 96kHz, or they didn't bother recording the hi res samples with the studio standard 96kHz, or they didn't thought their customers were worth the spending of a proper DAC inside the TD-50 (but they still ask for more money though...)

                  If they had work with samples, it would have been extremely complicated to read dozens of samples at the same time at such a sampling rate given the power consumption and thus the computing ability of the electronics behind. But working with synth engine, there is no reason why they didn't implement this hi res sampling rate, other than they thought you wouldn't care, or hear the difference, or bother. Or they cut the costs (but not the price obviously)

                  Also, the Axe FX II was born in 2011, 5 years ago...

                  So but practically speaking it doesn't change anything, it will still work perfectly fine at 44.1kHz or at 96kHz interpolated. But the fact they included this interpolation is strange, they seem to admit the use of this sampling rate in modern days music making in a DAW, but still they stood with their old standard... Once again, as if things had been rushed with this module, or corners cut. Then ok, but you can notice it is the most expansive on the market, so is it the price that is too high, or the specs that are not up to speed, either way, it's not very engaging. I would be ready to pay the price if I had the feeling it was well deserved. Here I have some very mixed feelings about several details in the TD-50, so my satisfaction if I was to buy it would be at risk to realize later the price was really not justified, and this is up to a point I might as well consider not going for it at all. I guess these elements will be part of the equation as well for many other people, and that's why in the end it's a pity they didn't really either cut the price or raise the quality up to it totally.
                  The latest Axe Fx was released last year.

                  Comment


                  • And the Axe FX I/O is 24 bits 48kHz on all versions. But the main conception is not new, it's dated in 2011. The TD-50 is announced as a groundbreaking next level gear supposed to redefine the future.

                    Look, the TD-50 will be a great success and a great drum module, that's not the question. But remember, the TD-30 was criticized on many things but also on the rather low fidelity of its sounds, on the machine gun effect. So much so that ATV proposed a new module with specially crafted real hi resolution samples. What does Roland argue when releasing its new flagship? It's hi res MIDI. Well this was introduced in 2014 with a stage piano, so it's not new. And it doesn't address the fidelity question, which measures in the sampling rate on the specs sheet in the end. But this doesn't prevent Roland to present the TD-50 as a thing of wonder and above all novelty. I'm sorry but if we look at the facts, it's not the way things are. And we could go on, they argue they consulted and listened to the users in the design of the TD-50. Well if we take a look at the sequencer it's not true, they didn't listened to the users, as things remained untouched here (well the TD-50 now records audio as well, but that was introduced in the TD-25 already.) We could go on and express more concerns, and they are real, the problem is not us stopping expressing these issues, it's Roland stopping producing them in the first place. I have the feeling the smoke screen will operate at full rate with the release of the TD-50, once more, and it's not a good news, it's not satisfying, it's not fun anymore, and we are more and more, as many say, go cold turkey on this.

                    The usual Roland, the one from before the 2008 crisis, used to release a new drum module flagship every 7 years or so. That really made a difference, people had the time to really use their module and kits, and tech really advanced 2 or 3 steps during this time, the novelty used to be spectacular indeed. Now if they more or less double the releasing rate, and in the meantime the users become more aware and informed in these matters and more prone to express their critics and concerns online, it will inevitable become more and more difficult to justify the mistakes, the price, the lies, the marketing, the dust hidden under the carpet. Don't you think?
                    Last edited by Rhappy-dude; 09-11-16, 04:37 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ug65 View Post

                      the axe FX II (the guitar equivalent of the TD-30) doesn't do 96k so not sure it's fair to say all.
                      I'm mainly a guitar player and I can easily say that these two boxes aren't even in the same galaxy. There's some dude over on The Gear Page claiming he can program a COSM based GT-100 that slays the AxeFX II. I've heard his attempt and let's just say it falls short. Roland keeps repackaging the same old COSM into new boxes and people fall all over themselves to shell out another $2,500 or so to get an incremental improvement in sound. The difference between a 20 and a 50 hasn't been that great. The difference between triggering VSTs with a 20 compared to a 50 is huuuuuuge. That huuuuuge leap hasn't been accomplished yet in the drum world by Roland like it has in the guitar world. FWIW, I use the L6 Helix for my guitar rig.

                      Yamaha Birch Custom Absolute | TD-20+TDW-20 | CY-14c X 2 | CY-15r | VH-11 | VEX | Superior 2+SDXs | Line 6 UX-8 | Mac Mini

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JmanWord View Post
                        FSR requires power.
                        Hi Jman,
                        With all my honest respect, why would a FSR require power? It's a changing resistance as a signal... The hihat controllers for Roland modules work like that as we all know and they also use the same TRS jack? I said FSR only because Michael Schack mentioned in the video that the head can be put on any BD making it a e-BD. That came to mind initially - what else can it be then, if it is not a FSR to make the head self-sufficient ? Maybe they stuck a piezo between the mesh layers ?
                        Roland TD-15
                        TAMA MetroJam2 TRB A2E

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Rhappy-dude View Post
                          And the Axe FX I/O is 24 bits 48kHz on all versions. But the main conception is not new, it's dated in 2011. The TD-50 is announced as a groundbreaking next level gear supposed to redefine the future.

                          Look, the TD-50 will be a great success and a great drum module, that's not the question. But remember, the TD-30 was criticized on many things but also on the rather low fidelity of its sounds, on the machine gun effect. So much so that ATV proposed a new module with specially crafted real hi resolution samples. What does Roland argue when releasing its new flagship? It's hi res MIDI. Well this was introduced in 2014 with a stage piano, so it's not new. And it doesn't address the fidelity question, which measures in the sampling rate on the specs sheet in the end. But this doesn't prevent Roland to present the TD-50 as a thing of wonder and above all novelty. I'm sorry but if we look at the facts, it's not the way things are. And we could go on, they argue they consulted and listened to the users in the design of the TD-50. Well if we take a look at the sequencer it's not true, they didn't listened to the users, as things remained untouched here (well the TD-50 now records audio as well, but that was introduced in the TD-25 already.) We could go on and express more concerns, and they are real, the problem is not us stopping expressing these issues, it's Roland stopping producing them in the first place. I have the feeling the smoke screen will operate at full rate with the release of the TD-50, once more, and it's not a good news, it's not satisfying, it's not fun anymore, and we are more and more, as many say, go cold turkey on this.

                          The usual Roland, the one from before the 2008 crisis, used to release a new drum module flagship every 7 years or so. That really made a difference, people had the time to really use their module and kits, and tech really advanced 2 or 3 steps during this time, the novelty used to be spectacular indeed. Now if they more or less double the releasing rate, and in the meantime the users become more aware and informed in these matters and more prone to express their critics and concerns online, it will inevitable become more and more difficult to justify the mistakes, the price, the lies, the marketing, the dust hidden under the carpet. Don't you think?
                          You are still saying that the TD50 sound is compromised because it is running at 44.1 for a drum sample playback device. That is not true and I would guarantee that you could not pick out 44.1 and 96k drum samples if I played you 10 files in a row. Some engineers think some of the plugins run better at 96k but that is up for debate. Their must have been a reason Roland didn't want the larger file size. The chip will definitely run on 96 because it says it can upsample.

                          Your theory about the sound above the hearing range affecting the digital conversion is less relevant now with current converter technology. That is why I put the article link in my post and a hearing test.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Peter Warren View Post

                            You are still saying that the TD50 sound is compromised because it is running at 44.1 for a drum sample playback device.
                            No I'm not saying that. But you want to make a point with your article. Ok, it doesn't work. Can we leave it here?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by thehightenor View Post
                              I've watched all the videos.

                              And the TD50 still sounds essentially like a Roland drum machine!
                              Hyperbole much? You better get your ears checked and fast if you even almost believe that. The TD-50 sounds absolutely NOTHING like a drum machine.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Rhappy-dude View Post
                                About machine gunning, it's actually much worse in these videos than on the TD-30 imo, on the snare it's very audible. This could be the effect of the velocity floor raised on the presets (min vol in the mixer setting in the TD-30), but it also could be the effect of the new sounds, that would be very interesting to know about that.
                                Depends on the preset. I owned the TD-25 for a while and some of the snares had virtually no machine gunning, while others did.

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