Using the SPD-30 to act as additional pads for my TD-20 - assigning sounds.

[Froglegs!]

It's been quite some time since I have visited the forum, but I am nearly beaten here trying to get my head around midi-speak, so I am at your mercy for a walkthrough.

I have an SPD-30 connected into my Midi-In of my TD-20 (expanded). What I am trying to do is use the 8 pads on the SPD-30 to act as 8 additional TD-20 pads.

So far I haven't accomplished much. I set the SPD 30 to either channel 10 or 11 and I can hear the percussion set through my TD20 headphones. At this point I can go into the SPD-30 pads and scroll through a lame set of percussion items, or if I choose channel 10 on the SPD-30 I can trigger a few toms and cymbals that are already assigned to my TD-20 so I can hear the same item on both TD20 and SPD 30.

I notice in the menu of the SPD-30 that there are ways to switch on/off the "control change Rx and Tx" as well as "program change Rx and Tx"

So for a walkthrough request, can I offer the following scenario:

I'm using - TD20 expanded Kit 1 (perhaps its one I bought from V-Expressions)
Kit #1 - Ameri-Rawk

How would I now assign a voice onto the pad 1 of SPD-30 that *does not yet exist* on this kit? Let's say a "triangle"? Is it possible?

Second - if I decide at some point that I want to use Kit #2 (Jive Rocka) on the TD-20, but on Pad 1 on the SPD-30 I'd this time like a tambourine...do I need to make any special adjustments to the CC Rx and Tx or the Program Change Rx or Tx on either the SPD-30 or the TD-20 to make this happen? Or am I stuck with the triangle on all kits?

After I can do it on one pad I should be fine with the rest.

Thanks in advance

[electrodrummer]

MIDI is an instruction to tell an instrument what note to play.

Imagine two keyboards: KB1 MIDI OUT -> KB2 MIDI IN. Pressing middle-C on KB1 would, in effect, press the middle-C key on KB2.

NOW.

Drums.

A drum module is just a synth, with drum sounds. Each sound corresponds to a note. Image a drum module being the same as a 128-note keyboard, but with, say, 12 of the keys being wired to pads. So, pressing the middle-octave C (we'll call that C3) could be a snare, for example. So, imagine that the keyboard has its middle octave set to play the sounds of a rock drum kit, with middle-C being snare, middle-C# being kick etc. So, we've programmed 12 notes for a drumkit - what about the other 116 available notes? Well, we don't have the pads to play those notes, so let's MIDI-in some more pads - using as you suggested an SPD30.

... SO, set the SPD30 pad 1 to send, let's say F#2, then set the receiving module that when it hears a F#2, to play a certain voice, say a tambourine. Then save that as a user kit. You're not affecting the whole kit you are playing with the TD20, just accessing the note on the keyboard you don't have mapped to the TD20 pads.

etc.

An interesting experiment is to MIDI a keyboard to your TD20 and play all the keys in turn....

CC Rx and Tx are Control Change messages and are used to send, say volume and pan commands over MIDI (for example, change the pan on KB1 changes the pan on KB2). You can filter those out by disabling that feature.

Program Change TX and Rx are for sending changes of program (think Kit) from one device to another, e.g. changing the patch on KB1 to #1 would change the patch on KB2 to #1. (this sort of stuff is really useful for sequencing drum kit changes live during a song!)

Hope some of this makes sense.

D.

ps. Here's the General MIDI standard note -> voice map for drums (check your manual for the TD20 drum maps)

[Froglegs!]

Hey mate - thanks so much for the detail. It's a great way to explain things.

So looking at the TD-20 manual, chapter 6 "Sequencer" section, it showed that I could change the assigned percussion voice via the "Percussion Part Section" . So I have now managed to assign my own voices to each pad on the SPD-30.

What bothers me is that I'm sort of flying blind. Now that I've changed the percussion kit sounds on the TD-20, each time I strike a pad on the midi-connected SPD-30 irrespective of what TD-20 kit i'm using, it plays the triggered sound I put there on the previous kit. Moreover, I wonder what else i'm affecting on the TD-20 as I tinker with it's Percussion Kit sounds? I know that there are a lot of patterns on the TD-20 that utilise these percussion sounds. As I change the assigned sounds, I am globally affecting the percussion kit.

My ideal scenario would be that as i scroll through my TD-20 kits, I have an additional 8 pads on the SPD-30 containing voices of my choosing, like i've just added an extra 8 inputs to the TD-20. This is where I imagine that knowledge of the Program Change thingy is used.

Does that make sense?

[KTOleary]

Electrodrummer, Outstanding response/answer to his MIDI question. I am sure you have helped out and benefited hundreds of users ...........and now one more. Thank you for your effort!

[willsud]

Yes, a great post, thanks electrodrummer

[1 eyed willy 73]

Hello, i am wanting to do somewhat the same idea from td 30 to td 50. What i want to do is , make sounds trigger throughtd 50, not wanting to expand amount of pads triggers. Just wanting to make for example td 30 midi snare sounds beable to be triggered through digital pads. Can this be done via midi out from 30 to midi in td 50? I do allready know that i will losep.s. options if this can be done.

[tkydon]

To Froglegs!

As I think you have discovered,iIf you want to play sounds on the TD-20 that are not assigned to the TD-20 Pads, then you need to use the TD-20 Percussion Sets and program the SPD-30 to send MIDI Notes for the Percussion Set on MIDI Channel 11.

Please see my detailed description on how I did this with a TMC-6 on my TD-20X in the last message to the TMC-6/TD-20 "How-To" Sticky.

The config idea will work on any Module that has MIDI-IN and Percussion Sets; TD-8, TD-9, TD-12, TD-20, TD-30, but not on the new Modules such as TD-50, TD-27, etc... as they do not have Percussion Sets, and many don't have MIDI-IN.

For the SPD-30, you would used the same idea as for the TMC-6. See SPD-30 Owner's Manual P.63.
Decide how many MIDI Notes you need per Kit.
For Kit #1 assign MIDI Channel 11 (Percussion Set) MIDI Notes 0 to (say) 14, for Kit #2 15 to 29, and so on.
You would then change the Percussion Instruments by changing Kit on the SPD-30 and/or changing User Pattern to change Percussion Sets on the TD-20 Kit.

Then assign the instruments for the block of notes for the particular Kit in the Percussion Set (default Percussion Set #1).

All Preset Patterns on the TD-20 / TD-20X use Percussion Set #1. No other Percussion Sets are used, and I don't think changing Percussion Set #1 will change anything, even in those preset patterns, as I think they only use the other parts and not the Percussion Part.
You can save your edited Percussion Set to any other Percussion Set, and recall any default Percussion Set from ROM, or use any User Pattern and select any Percussion Set for that User Pattern.
Changing the Percussion sets has no other effect on the module.
See Instructions in my Doc for detailed options.

Please feel free to provide feedback.

The other (maybe simpler) alternative would be to configure the MIDI notes for the Tom Rims on MIDI Channel 10 to the pads on the SPD-30, to play the Instruments associated to the Tom Rims on the TD-20. These Instruments can then be edited with V-Edit.

Trigger (MIDI Note) (default)
R1 - Kick Rim (35)
R3 - Tom1 Rim (50)
R4 - Tom2 Rim (47)
R5 - Tom3 Rim (58)
R6 - Tom4 Rim (39)
R12 - AUX1 Rim (28)
R13 - AUX2 Rim (30)
R14 - AUX3 Rim (32)
R15 - AUX4 Rim (34)

When you strike the SPD-30 Pad it will bring up and play the Instrument associated to the Tom Rim in the TD-20 Kit.


And to 1 eyed willy 73

You can use my config connecting the TD-50 to play sounds on the TD-30 Percussion Set, but not the other way around as the TD-50 does not have Percussion Sets.
Probably the best thing to do in this case would be to connect the Audio Out of TD-30 to the TD-50 Audio In, or connect the Audio Out of both modules to a Mixer.
There is no way on the TD-50 to trigger sounds that are not already associated with Pad Heads and Rims on the TD-50...
You could set the Pad Heads in the TD-30 Kit to send the Rim MIDI Notes as above (swap the MIDI Notes for Head and Rim on every Pad) on MIDI Channel 10 (default Drum Part), and the TD-50 will play the Instruments associated with the TD-50 Tom Rims...