Can somebody please reccomend me a realistic feeling e-drum? (max. 2k�)

[flickflack1]

Hello, first I want to say that I'm new to the world of e-drumkits and I was looking into buying one because of noise issues with my acoustic kit. I ve played on some e-drums in a store (don t know the exact models) but I didn t like the feel of it. It felt like playing on a bunch of practice pads. Most of the kits were also limited in what you could do with them (for example: stopping cymbals, playing rimshots, crashing cymbals and playing them only with the tip of the stick etc).

[Desmond]

Have you checked out any kits with mesh heads? That's probably as close as you'll get. Not sure what the Roland kits go for in Europe, but by US prices you're in the TD25 price range. FWIW, I bought my Roland kit (about 2.5 years ago) in like-new condition from an online classified, saved myself a bunch of money, and couldn't be happier with my decision. True, it doesn't have all the nuance of an acoustic kit and certainly isn't perfect, but it does have one critically-important feature: it allows me to practice as much as I want and whenever I want. I could never say the same about an acoustic kit. In the end, all those extra hours of practice will do far more for my playing than practicing less often on an acoustic kit.

[TangTheHump]

flickflack1,

I second the mesh head recommendation. However, the problem with most electronic drum kits, including mesh head kits, is the drum and cymbal sizes are too small. For example, on the Roland TD-25 kit that was recommended, the "K" version of the kit has 10 SD, 6 inch rack toms, and 8 FT. Even with mesh heads, these sizes, of course, do not feel like an acoustic kit with 14 SD, 10 RT, 12 RT, 14, FT, and 16 FT. The "KV" version of that kit offers slightly larger sizes, but the sizes are still ridiculously small compared to acoustic drums and this affects both the feel and spatial characteristics.

In Europe, you have 3rd party providers, Jobeky Drums comes to mind, who offer full size kits with mesh heads and Roland compatible triggers built in. That's the route to go if you want the closest feel to an acoustic kit. Jobeky is also a lot less expensive than what Roland charges. You'd get the e-drums from Jobeky and buy a module separately from Roland.

Another provider of real size e-drums is Drum-Tec. Sadly, nobody makes real size electronic cymbals yet. For best compatibility with a Roland module, you should go with Roland cymbals. Like everything Roland, Roland's e-cymbals are crazy expensive.

To get what you want, I think you'll have to up your budget to about double. The module alone (TD-30) will cost your full current budget. The Jobeky drums plus Roland cymbals will cost you your budget again.

Another option is to look at the 2Box module and 2Box cymbals. These are much less expensive than the Roland stuff and the 2Box module sounds much better than anything Roland makes. Drum-Tec can set you up with 2Box stuff. With Roland, especially if you are going to put together a kit yourself, I would not go with less than the TD-30 module. The TD-25 is too limited in its I/O connectors. And, frankly, the TD-25 is a plasticky, cheap feeling module with a horrible interface and limited features. If you want the Roland experience, the TD-30 is essential. However, in your situation, I highly recommend you check out Jobeky Drums, Drum-Tec, and 2Box.

[Peter Warren]

I would look at the TD25 kit and then add a 12" snare. You can upgrade the other pads to larger ones later. there is an endless resource of used Roland pads. I have a kit of this size but play the acoustic for shows. It works fine if you go back and forth between the 2. If you only play edrums you may want to look into the larger custom pads.

[TangTheHump]

Peter,

Sorry to disagree, but the TD-25 kits are exactly what I feel is wrong with the electric drum industry and why e-drums have not been accepted in the mainstream. The TD-25 kits are expensive and feature toy-size 6, 8, and 10 inch pads that in no way feel like the larger sizes of acoustic drum kits. This is why, in my Roland electronic kit, I've only got a single 10 inch pad. All other pads are 12 inches and I'd prefer some larger sizes, but Roland doesn't make anything larger. The only Roland kit that felt remotely like playing on an acoustic kit was the flagship TD-30KV and it is precisely because of the larger pads and larger cymbals that this is the case. Luckily for the OP, they are in Europe where a number of custom e-drum makers reside. Were I in Europe, I'd have gone the Jobeky or Drum-Tec route. However, being on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, I didn't want to deal with shipping issues. For someone with easy access to these companies, it's a no brainer to take advantage of what they offer. The quality is as good or better than Roland's mesh pads, they offer real drum sizes, and the prices are 1/5 what Roland charges. Pair this with a 2Box module and you're much closer to something that feels and plays like an acoustic kit and doesn't cost a fortune (the way Roland V-Drums do).

[pumpal]

An A-kit with Drum-tec 2 or 3 ply mesh heads on the batter side + a set of the new Zildjian L80 cymbals and hats will give you enough quietness to comfortably practice and will keep you well in the budged - actually even 1/2 of it can suffice.

By keeping the resonant heads you will still be getting some tone from the drums and a realfeel drum-tec on real-sized shells provides maybe 99% the same feel as the real thing.

[JGN]

I live in the Netherlands and bought a second hand TD-20-BK (expanded) full set-up with good hardware and many Vexp on a CF-card. So with the same sizes as the new td30KV. It was in excellent condition and costed me €2800.
So my advise if you want more for less is to go for a good second hand. Roland's are new to expensive IMO.

[JGN]

I live in the Netherlands and bought a second hand TD-20-BK (expanded) full set-up with good hardware and many Vexp on a CF-card. So with the same sizes as the new td30KV. It was in excellent condition and costed me 2800 euro.
So my advise if you want more for less is to go for a good second hand. Roland's are new to expensive IMO.

[Peter Warren]

Peter,

Sorry to disagree, but the TD-25 kits are exactly what I feel is wrong with the electric drum industry and why e-drums have not been accepted in the mainstream. The TD-25 kits are expensive and feature toy-size 6, 8, and 10 inch pads that in no way feel like the larger sizes of acoustic drum kits. This is why, in my Roland electronic kit, I've only got a single 10 inch pad. All other pads are 12 inches and I'd prefer some larger sizes, but Roland doesn't make anything larger. The only Roland kit that felt remotely like playing on an acoustic kit was the flagship TD-30KV and it is precisely because of the larger pads and larger cymbals that this is the case. Luckily for the OP, they are in Europe where a number of custom e-drum makers reside. Were I in Europe, I'd have gone the Jobeky or Drum-Tec route. However, being on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, I didn't want to deal with shipping issues. For someone with easy access to these companies, it's a no brainer to take advantage of what they offer. The quality is as good or better than Roland's mesh pads, they offer real drum sizes, and the prices are 1/5 what Roland charges. Pair this with a 2Box module and you're much closer to something that feels and plays like an acoustic kit and doesn't cost a fortune (the way Roland V-Drums do).

I do agree that all Roland kits are not realistic enough in sound. In my case I would not want full sized pads because it is set up beside my acoustic kit in my studio. I owned the TD25 module for 3 months and did not have any problems. I would guess that 99% of the people with these kits only play them in the house. Why would you need a metal case for the module? I like the compact layout of the TD25. The TD30 module actually used a good amount of space on my rack. Have you played a TD25?

I don't think the TD30 sounds that much better than the TD25. The hi hat is slightly less machine like and has pressure sensing. The snares are very close. The TD30 still machine guns. I still think Roland pads are very reliable. I am assuming that your whole criticism of the TD25 is based on some people saying the volume knob was loose and that you cannot program the rim trigger sound. Otherwise it is just the same pads and rack as the other kits. The price is actually better than the past kits. They include the VH11 now in the lower priced kit. It also has positional sensing on a $2000 kit.

I might think differently if I didn't have to the option to play and record my acoustic kit . Right now I am using the acoustic kit for all my tracks and comparing with samples. I would never use the Roland sounds on a recording. They are good for tracking because they have a way of cutting through the headphone mix or PA systems.

[TangTheHump]

Peter Warren,

Hey, thanks for some background on how you use the TD-25. To answer some of your questions...

"I do agree that all Roland kits are not realistic enough in sound."

I find *all* Roland electronic kits are not realistic enough in sound and feel. Both problems could be solved with current technology, but Roland continues refusing to update their outdated sounds and extremely outdated V-Drums technical architecture.

In terms of feel, the main problem is the pad sizes. Mesh heads are fine and this was a brilliant move on Roland's part. However, as I noted before, 6, 8, and 10 inch pads do not feel like the 10, 12, 14, 16, and 18 inch diameters of acoustic drums. So the head tension is off and the physical characteristics (in terms of placement and muscle memory) are also way off. Again, these issues are easy to fix, but thus far Roland has refused to do anything. The best fix, especially if you're in Europe, is to avoid Roland and go with third party providers like Jobeky, Diamond, Drum-Tec, and such. All of these third parties provide pads in real drum sizes.

I use a Roland TD-30KV kit that I have set up as a four piece. I agree that the quality and reliability of the pads is superb - and it should be given what Roland charges for these pads. The sizes don't feel right at all, though. A snare drum is 14 inches, not 12, and this greatly affects how one plays. Rim shots never feel right and playing figures from edge to center, due to the smaller surface, doesn't feel right either. Similarly, when I move to the floor tom (a 12 inch pad in Roland land), the floor tom feels off because real floor toms are 14, 16, and 18 inches in size. With the 12 inch pad as a floor tom, I constantly hit the rim because with a proper-size floor tom, there is never be a rim where there is with the Roland pad. One has to be careful when placing the 12 inch pad too, because the smaller diameter allows placement that is physically impossible with acoustic drums.

I didn't buy an electronic drum kit to learn drums the way Roland thinks they should be. Rather, I bought a kit to learn *drums*. As such, Roland's continued refusal to provide proper size pads is a HUGE problem and a reason why I continue to recommend students find ways to practice on acoustic drums.

"In my case I would not want full sized pads because it is set up beside my acoustic kit in my studio."

I have my Roland kit set up beside my acoustic drums, too. But, as noted above, I would greatly prefer proper size pads. Using the small, toy-size pads Roland provides creates a muscle memory mismatch between the electronic and acoustic kits.

"Why would you need a metal case for the module?

I prefer to use equipment that is reliable and this means equipment that is capable of taking bumps and whose chassis can protect the PC board and connectors from bending, hairline fractures, and such. Plus, when I pay thousands of dollars for a musical instrument, I don't want something that feels like a child's toy. There are probably many other reasons I prefer all-metal builds.

Every piece of equipment I've owned made of plastic, sooner or later, has failed due to the plastic build. This is never the case with equipment I've owned with all-metal builds. I'm also not a fan of PC broad mounted controls and I/O. To me, anything that comes into contact with the user should be bolted down, and this includes inputs and outputs that are subject to cable weight and cables pulled due to tripping, accidents, etc. I *love* working with Nord and Kurzweil gear, in part, because their all-metal and all-bolted-down build approaches gives me confidence to work without thinking about the equipment. For example, I plug in cables and never worry about their weight causing the PC board to fracture.

The TD-30 always worries me because there is a tremendous amount of weight (from the cables) placed directly on the PC board. I try to circumvent this by supporting the cables so their full weight doesn't fall on the module. But come on! Why should I worry about this in a multi-thousand dollar module? It takes my time and attention, and the solution is easy, per 2Box. Bolt down the I/O! Problem solved. Much happier customer! The point being... something doesn't have to break for it to catch my attention. The mere possibility of it easily breaking is an annoyance and thus I prefer gear that doesn't make me feel this way.

Bottom line, anything that takes me away from making music is a hassle and a worry that I don't want. Roland's new "all plastic" build approach creates all kinds of worries I don't want in my head while working.

"I don't think the TD-30 sounds that much better than the TD-25. (snip) The TD-30 still machine guns.

Absolutely agreed, and this is a big shame. For starters, the TD-30 shouldn't machine gun at all. Roland sold the TD-30 with the claim they had fixed machine gunning. Clearly, Roland did not solve machine gunning and their marketing is false. As for the TD-25, it's even more disappointing that this module machine guns because Roland had the opportunity to make good on their promise. I guess in Roland's mind we *stupid customers* keep buying the recycled crap they put out so why fix anything? Really, the TD-25 should sound better than the TD-30 because it had the opportunity to use newer, more powerful technology. But then again, these days, Roland *never* takes advantage of such an opportunity. The Roland mandate seems to be to provide the absolute minimum that will continue to spur sales. The TD-30 and TD-25 are both examples of this "minimum" approach.

"I am assuming that your whole criticism of the TD-25 is based on some people saying the volume knob was loose and that you cannot program the rim trigger sound.

My concern and disdain for the TD-25 kits is that they continue Roland's pattern of fixing nothing and charging the highest prices they can. There is nothing new about the TD-25 kits. They exist simply as a new model to push sales. Same small pads as before. Same small cymbals as before. Same synthetic sounds Roland is known for. If you're not in America, same prices as before. Same. Same. Same. What's to get excited about?

Had Roland used the TD-25 to usher in a new technical architecture for V-Drums, that would have been meaningful. They could have ushered in real drum sizes with the TD-25. Nope. They could have done lots of things with the TD-25. Instead, it's just another minimal upgrade that, this time around, removes important features (like the sequencer and independent rim assignments) and decreases build quality with flimsy controls and a flimsy chasis. How about individual I/O to make the module more flexible? Anything meaningful and new? No. Not from Roland V-Drums. It's just the same stuff over, and over, and over, and over again. Not an iota of innovation or new thinking. The *last* thing Roland needed to do is change (and break) the interface, both things they accomplished with the TD-25! And now that the mid-line module is all plastic and flimsy, it definitely isn't ready for professional use. Wow. What an improvement! Not. There's simply nothing here. It's all marketing gimmickery designed to recycle and resell what they've already sold.

Sorry for this negative outlook, but honestly, as someone who has followed V-Drums since their inception, there is nothing to get excited about. V-Drums are long overdue for a complete overhaul.

[Peter Warren]

Those are great points. A 14" pad seems like the most simple way to upgrade Roland right now. I wonder if they will do that next.

My acoustic set is 6,10 and 14 toms so the Roland tom layout is fine for me. I think the most likely next step we will see is a better module. I haven't had a problem with any Roland gear so far. The hi hat is still the best out of all the companies. The Yamaha one is ok but the rebound is a bit less than a real hi hat for me making it difficult to do faster patterns. My main goal is accurate VST triggering and Roland is still number one for me. Yamaha was pretty good. The 2box module was great but the pads were not when I tried them.

[basiltree]

1 year into electronic drumming and still playing with the setup but having tried Roland, Jobeky and Diamond units (gone through the trail and error) I would prob do things differently.

I would get:

Diamond drumsbrain just for triggering and use Superior drummer / Ezdrummer for the sounds (the diff between this and Roland sounds is almost the diff between me wanting to even play or not now) , I currently have roland triggering through my laptop but the 2box unit I am very curious about as you can load the EZdrummer samples directly on the module. avoids having the laptop there and should remove latency.

Cymbals at the moment I am sticking to roland vh11, cy13r (thought I wish I had got the 15inch now)

I was a bit hasty starting with a roland td11k kit before gradually upgrading everything, if I was starting from scratch I would get some nice sized shell packs from Diamond with drum tec heads, a second hand brain, maybe a 2box with the superior drummer VST samples loaded directly on there and some Roland cymbals.

hope thats helps

[TangTheHump]

Re Basiltree's post above,

It's worth noting that Drum-Tec builds and offers their own pads, too. These pads are available in Roland-style sizes and proper acoustic drum sizes, and also come in short or full size shells.