Welcome! If this is your first visit, you will need to register to participate.

DO NOT use symbols in usernames. Doing so will result in an inability to sign in & post!

If you cannot sign in or post, please visit our Forum FAQs section for answers to forum related FAQs.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Struggling with kick drum technique and looking for guidance

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Struggling with kick drum technique and looking for guidance

    I have owned a TD-4 kit for a few years now with the included KD-9 kick pad and bought a PDP DP402 double bass pedal. I would like to make an upgrade, but I don't know which of the two would make the most significant improvement.

    For example, would the KD-120 improve my kick performance or would something like a Tama Cobra pedal? I really am a novice in drumming, and I know I need to focus much, much, more on practicing and technique than worrying about gear, but every time I sit on an acoustic kit, I feel that it's way easier to pull off a double kick than I can on my VDrum.

    When I sit on my kit, it feels like the pedal just smacks the pad and is absorbed, rather than bouncing. Pulling off a double kick with one foot is such a chore (and I've spents a long time practicing).

    I'm reaching out to you experienced guys out there, please, if you have any idea about how to help improve the performance of my kick, I would be very grateful. I'm very eager to improve, and I know that with a little guidance I can do it. Thanks in advance!

  • #2
    Heres my 2 cents bud. Having a good quality pedal is very important. Perhaps more than you realize. A cheap BD pedal wont return (spring back) as quickly. Tama iron cobra is what i use. I love it. I have had that pedal for over 10 years and it is still responding flawlessly. As far as your kick pad goes...What kind of beater are you using? You should be using a hard plastic or wood beater on a kd9 kd8 or pd108 120. I think you can adjust the tension on the head of your td9. Try cranking that up a bit. The KD120 is a fine bass drum pad, I use a 16" floor tom converted to a bass drum with a mesh head. Works well for me. Prolly less expensive than a used KD120. I think a good quality double pedal is going to yield the best results. Tip: Don't bury your beater when playing with a E kick. Make sure that beater is coming off the head after the strike.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi SoggySocks,

      welcome to the forum ; -)

      I'm afraid I do not quite understand your situation. Do you have a timing problem, or a mechanical problem, or both?

      What do you mean by double-kick? Just to illustrate my question let H mean the HiHat, S the Snare and K the Kick, then common rock beat reads with quarter notes:

      H_1 2 3 4
      S_. 2 . 4
      K_1 . 3 .

      and with eight-notes on the HiHat:

      H_1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and
      S_......2...........4....
      K_1 ..........3..........

      A double-kick then could be e.g. after 3:

      H_1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and
      S_......2...........4....
      K_1 ..........3 and......

      So do you have trouble playing the "and" after "3"? (eight-notes timing)

      Or it could be s.th. like:

      H_1.....2.....3.....4....
      S_......2...........4....
      K_1.......and...and...and

      (eight-notes timing on the kick drum)

      If so, how is it related to a single or your double pedal?


      Or do you just have a mechanical problem, e.g. the beater keeps sticking to the bass drum? Or is the spring in the pedal too forceless to return the beater in time?

      If so, may be you can post a few pictures from your pedal, bass drum, pressed and released? Or is it something else?


      Best, Michael

      P.S.: unfortunately the font used here for display spoils the notes. Suggestion: copy those to an editor and set font to Courier new or similar.
      Last edited by MS-SPO; 09-22-15, 04:36 AM. Reason: put P.S.
      td-30 user ;-)

      Comment


      • #4
        I think hes talking about doing doubles with a single kick pedal, like a heart beat, in a single motion.

        I share this pain on my KT-10. It forces you to really mature your foot and leg muscles as there is no rebound to take advantage of. I also notice when I go back to play an acoustic kick, I can keep up doubles much easier, for longer, with less effort.

        SoggySocks is such an adequate username for the topic lol.

        I have 7 tips from my own experience.

        1. Make sure the kick pedal is fitted correctly, mount it as close as possible - you may be getting irregular/rolled off return force at the pinnacle of the hit, if the beater has to travel beyond it's normal maximum arc.

        2. Footwear - playing in shoes vs playing in socks makes a huge difference for me.
        Try wearing a pair of trainers, I find taking away the tactile feeling of foot to foot-board helps me.

        3. Kick pedal calibration - Make sure your beaters have plenty of swing distance (not resting against the head) and the length of the beater arm is extended so that it hits the very center of the KD-9. I advice trying a loose spring tension on the pedal first, and let the swing momentum dictate more of the action. Play halfway down the foot-board; if the beater still isn't bouncing back, increase the spring tension.

        4. Kick pedal beater - try buying a tennis ball beater for your existing pedal.

        5. New Kick pedal - Failing to find a good calibration for your existing hardware, it's time for a new pedal. Really do try stretch your budget here; Tama, DW, Pearl, Yamaha. Also test out which type; Direct, Chain, Belt, you prefer as well.

        6. Kick pad - mesh heads are obviously going to have the most rebound; it's one way of making doubles and triplets easier but control must be maintained. Upgrading to KD120 may help with this, but it may also make control more difficult. Unless your KD-9 is worn through, I would look at your pedals first.

        7. Practice, Practice, Practice.
        Last edited by Kabonfaiba; 09-22-15, 12:12 PM.
        ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ 2box DrumIt 5 MKII
        ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
        PA Comparison Sheet

        Comment


        • #5
          First off, I want to apologize for the late response. I set the forum thread to subscribe, yet I recieved no email. So I was surprised to see the replies after being curious and taking a look!

          brucethedrummer Thank you! I appreciate the candid honesty about cheap vs quality pedals. I have no idea whether mine are cheap or not, but I've had a suspicion that they are. Plus I've heard so many good things about the Tama Iron Cobra.

          As for my beater, they are plastic (see image).



          And this is my setup (see image)





          I'm trying to understand you better about how your kick is set up. Is the floor tom a sensor pad or an acoustic tom? Either way, I could see the benefit than using the TD-9 (I really don't like it).

          I'll keep practicing not to bury the beater during my practicing. How long should a novice practice each foot? For a double kick that is.

          Comment


          • #6
            MS-SPO Well, I guess I don't know the correct terminology. The double kick move I'm referring to is the one where you make the pedal hit twice real fast with your foot but your foot doesn't move like it does when you do a full single hit. It's like the 2nd hit is done as the pedal bounces but your twitch your ankle to get the 2nd hit.

            I understand the notes you made, but I don't think that's what I'm referring too. But I can say one thing about the last notes (eigth note timing) that I do have trouble with that, but with practice I'm sure I'll get it sorted. What methods could I use to get that timing better?

            Thanks for the well thought out reply, and sorry for the confusion. Regards.

            Comment


            • #7
              Kabonfaiba Yes, you got it right. The single motion double kick. I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and get a new pedal and practice, practice, practice! That's really all there is too it.

              Thank you for the suggestion on pedal tuning. I've always wondered what the spring and screws were for. As you can tell, I basically have no business owning a drumkit if I don't know how to tune it...

              I'll look into the tennis ball beater. Sounds interesting.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for adding some pictures SoggySocks.

                Now I can see you have it setup correctly, where the beaters are hitting, and the condition of the KD-9 - All looks good there.

                Yes, I'm definitely going to advice changing those beaters first! Solid plastic lumps designed for volume on a regular drum skins - that's just a needless handicap for ekits.

                I'm sure the KAT Percussion KT-TBB half size balls fit double beaters. Hopefully the advantage will be 2-fold.
                First; less beater weight, allowing less spring tension. Better balance (I'm only guessing from the pictures) but those PDP beaters look too heavy to me. As in, they are unfit for the purpose of technical playing.
                Second, they are tennis balls, they bounce lol.

                I'd still continue to look at replacing the pedals even with new beaters fitted, as doing that it would only benefit you further. Plus you would still have the new beaters to swap out at your discretion.
                ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ 2box DrumIt 5 MKII
                ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
                PA Comparison Sheet

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have been playing for 50 years (not a typo). My biggest mistake was to stop taking lessons after 6 months. I knew it all. I would have learned more and learned quicker it I took lessons. You can practice as much as you want, but if you practice poor techniques, you will get real good at doing it wrong. Spend the money on a good teacher. My two cents.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi SoggySocks,

                    thank you, now I understand better: you've been busy for sure ; -)

                    I agree with other commenters before that a good bass drum and pedal should be your first attention point. I mean, who uses a worn out screw driver to do high quality work ; -) ? May be you have the chance to visit a music store and try things out?

                    I'm not sure how badly you'll need a double pedal, but if that's your way, it's your way. As a suggestion I'd like to turn your attention to drumeo, who also guide well on all these technical issues "how to use hands and feet on a drum set", like these:

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCCJyYIBK9s (Heel Toe, Slide, and Flat Foot Bass Drum Techniques )
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxoms7LsXDo (5-Minute Single Pedal Bass Drum Workout )
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMM1YyDYafc (Advanced Single Pedal Bass Drum Speed )

                    and 'drumeo kick' entered into google.


                    For your reference I use a DW 5000 AD4 single pedal (http://www.rainbowguitars.com/drums/...l/cp5000ad4/dw) on a KD-120, which works fine for me ... and could be turned into a double later ; -)

                    Best, Michael
                    td-30 user ;-)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi All,

                      Thanks for the good tips

                      Just thought I'd add this for the benefit of Michael and anyone who wants to post in a fixed-width font:

                      The easiest way is to use CODE tags, although the advanced editor lets you select fonts such as Courier New as an alternative.

                      You can use the advanced editor, highlight the section you want in fixed width and press the Code icon (toward the right side of the toolbar, it's the button with the # symbol).

                      Code:
                      What do you mean by double-kick? Just to illustrate my question let H mean the HiHat, S the Snare and K the Kick, then common rock beat reads with quarter notes:
                      
                      H_1 2 3 4
                      S_. 2 . 4
                      K_1 . 3 .
                      
                      and with eight-notes on the HiHat:
                      
                      H_1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and
                      S_......2...........4....
                      K_1 ..........3..........
                      
                      A double-kick then could be e.g. after 3:
                      
                      H_1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and
                      S_......2...........4....
                      K_1 ..........3 and......
                      
                      So do you have trouble playing the "and" after "3"? (eight-notes timing)
                      
                      Or it could be s.th. like:
                      
                      H_1.....2.....3.....4....
                      S_......2...........4....
                      K_1.......and...and...and
                      
                      (eight-notes timing on the kick drum)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I add my 2 cents worth. TAMA has low cost version of Speed Cobra. I recently purchase Speed Cobra HP600 DTW to use on KD-9. It felt much smoother & lighter than my initial Roland VDRUM pedal. And there is option to buy spring coil to install underneath foot-board to improve "re-bound" which KD-9 does not offer much.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The easiest way is to use CODE tags, although the advanced editor lets you select fonts such as Courier New as an alternative.
                          Wonderful, ClintTweed.

                          Thanks for the hint ; -)

                          Best, Michael
                          td-30 user ;-)

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            I took an old floor tom and added bass drum spurs and a riser. (so the batter head is at the correct height) on the batter side I installed a mesh head (16") and then added a DDrum trigger. It triggers well and feels more like an actual bass drum due to the size. Looks cool too.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I am a big Iron cobra fan. The felt beater is light but sounds good on an acoustic kick as well. I use the felt beater with a nylon evans bass drum patch on a KD140. http://www.amazon.com/Evans-Double-P.../dp/B0002D0DWK

                              The patch makes all the KD series much more like a real kick for me. It will make the mesh last for ever and is almost the same volume as the mesh.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X
                              😀
                              🥰
                              🤢
                              😎
                              😡
                              👍
                              👎