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Is it worth upgrading Hi Hat PD7 to a VH-11?

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  • Is it worth upgrading Hi Hat PD7 to a VH-11?

    Howdy,

    I've just joined this forum as I have just bought myself a Roland TD-8 and absolutely loving being able to practise any time of the day/night without complaints from neighbours etc. I am however finding the Hi Hats (PD7 Pad and FD6 Foot Controller) to be the let down of using the TD-8 (I am using NI Abbey Roads VIs and BFD3). I have noticed on the Roland site that there is a VH-11 Hi Hat Pad that goes onto a real Hi Hat stand and it says it can be used with a TD-8 but isn't fully supported. So, I am wondering if it is worth up grading to the VH-11?

    I will happily upgrade the brain if needs be to have the VH-11 Fully supported but I am so new to V Kits that I just don't know what Brain would be a great upgrade from the TD-8. I'm guessing, if money was no object, then the TD30KV is the the way to go but that is really expensive and I have no idea if my current Mesh Heads (KD-80, PD-80 x 4, + PD-80R), and 3 x Cymbal Pads (CY-12RC) would work with it. I am using the V Kit for practising and also recording Drum parts over Midi for song writing (so basically using Virtual Instruments and Drum Libraries into Cubase Pro 8). Is the VH-11 the best Hi Hat Pad Roland do and do different Brains offer different sensitivity etc?


    Any help would be awesome!

    Thank you

    Jono
    Last edited by Jono not Bono; 04-28-15, 08:18 PM.

  • #2
    I was in a similar boat with my TD-6 and went from a CY-5 and FD-8 setup to a VH-11. Overall it's been a good decision, but it has a few advantages and some minor disadvantages. The one disadvantage is that you essentially have a remote hi-hat as it stands and you can position your hat anywhere you want in relation to the foot pedal, this of course is possible with the VH-11 but requires a bit more hardware investment. In terms of realism the movement of the VH-11 hat is nice and gives a nicer overall feel. Sound wise you'll find absolutely no difference with what you have now. Since you are using at VST the TD-8 works essentially the same as the TD-30 and just sends out a midi signal so there is no real advantage to doing an upgrade unless you feel you need more pads than the TD-8 can supply (10inputs vs 15). There is a little fancy-ness with TD-30 having some sound changes 'foot pressure sensor' with a really heavy press on the pedal which gives a very heavily choked sound but I think that is only with a VH-12 and 13.

    All of your pads will work on any Roland module BTW.

    As a fun test, take your CY-12RC and set it up as your hi-hat cymbal. This is a close as you will get to a VH-11, the only difference is you will not have the up/down movement of the pedal and the direct connection but should give you a larger surface and dual zone hi-hat.

    To answer more directly. I think the VH-11 is a worthy upgrade and your TD-8 can handle it. I've been happy with my choice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ThePod View Post
      I was in a similar boat with my TD-6 and went from a CY-5 and FD-8 setup to a VH-11. Overall it's been a good decision, but it has a few advantages and some minor disadvantages. The one disadvantage is that you essentially have a remote hi-hat as it stands and you can position your hat anywhere you want in relation to the foot pedal, this of course is possible with the VH-11 but requires a bit more hardware investment. In terms of realism the movement of the VH-11 hat is nice and gives a nicer overall feel. Sound wise you'll find absolutely no difference with what you have now. Since you are using at VST the TD-8 works essentially the same as the TD-30 and just sends out a midi signal so there is no real advantage to doing an upgrade unless you feel you need more pads than the TD-8 can supply (10inputs vs 15). There is a little fancy-ness with TD-30 having some sound changes 'foot pressure sensor' with a really heavy press on the pedal which gives a very heavily choked sound but I think that is only with a VH-12 and 13.

      All of your pads will work on any Roland module BTW.

      As a fun test, take your CY-12RC and set it up as your hi-hat cymbal. This is a close as you will get to a VH-11, the only difference is you will not have the up/down movement of the pedal and the direct connection but should give you a larger surface and dual zone hi-hat.

      To answer more directly. I think the VH-11 is a worthy upgrade and your TD-8 can handle it. I've been happy with my choice.
      Thanks for your reply. I was under the impression that the VH-11 was more sensitive and when put on a real Hi-Hat Stand, the sensor detects opening and closing of the hat more smoothly (with a better Brain). Sorry if I have this wrong.

      Comment


      • #4
        I have moved from my CY-5 / FD-8 to a VH-11 with my TD-12 awhile back and can say there isnt that much of a difference when it comes down to " justify " the price difference. You may get a tighter closed and a more wide open sound with a larger playing surface on the VH-11 but If I were to do it again I would just have kept the CY-5/FD-8 setup and saved the money.

        Roland TD-12 Ludwig A2E 5pc kit, VH-11
        Studio Drummer, Abbey Road 60's 70's 80's, AD2, SSD4, SD3
        Komplete Audio 6, JBL Eon 515XT, Mackie FX12, DAW Studio One 3

        Comment


        • #5
          I have used both extensively. The CY-5/FD-8 (or even better the FD-7 used for less $) is every bit as good as a VH-11 in terms of what you actually get out of it for module/sonic performance. The difference comes down to feel. The actual up/down action is more realistic. The cymbal is larger. If triggering VST's the performance data is generated in the module (the actual MIDI data it outputs) so there's no difference there. OK, I actually believe I have gotten better MIDI data files from my performances using the CY5/FD-8 and use that often for recording. There is one thing that the CY5 combo offers over the VH-11. You do need to calibrate the VH-11, and some have some difficulty with this. It's not that difficult. However, the CY5 combo requires no calibration. That's a minor advantage. It's always "right there" for you. No fussing or tweaking.

          For jamming and stage performance, I like the "realism" of the VH-11. If I'm on a small stage and don't want to lug the HiHat stand and VH-11, I go with the CY5 combo.

          Bottom line: no difference in sonic performance at the end of the day. Go for it if you wan the feel of more realistic hihat movement.
          ATV aDrums & aD5, Pearl Mimic Pro & DIY, Agean R-series Silent Cymbals, Roland Handsonic HPD-20.

          Comment


          • #6
            My experience mirrors both yzf125 and jpsquared482. I used a static HH rig with both my exp TD-10 and TD-12. Then spent many years using the Hart Epedal Pro II (a VH-12 equivalent) with both modules I then started with a static setup on the Yamaha DTX502, then used Yamaha's RHH135 (moveable, effectively a VH-11 equivalent).

            In every instance, I eventually went back to a static setup. In fact, about a year or so ago (I posted something in here about it), I setup my Epedal Pro II on my TD-12 and played it side by side with the DTX502 using both the static rig and the RHH135. Like ysf and jps, I didn't hear any noteworthy sonic differences. It all came down to feel.

            And I discovered after 5+ years of playing on the Epedal Pro II that I much preferred the independence of placement when it came to the HH cymbal and the foot controller.

            One thing I will say is the biggest feature in any of these HH setups is the importance of a 2-zone HH cymbal. When I moved to a CY-5 (I eventually mounted it on the Epedal Pro II instead of the original single-zone Hart ecymbal) I thought "wow, I've been missing something great all these years".

            So, in a Roland world I'd use the CY-5 and a FD-7 on my TD-12. In my DTX502 world, I use the PCY100 cymbal with the HH65 controller.

            www.digitaldrummermag.com
            www.dauphinehotel.com
            TD-12, DTX502, SD1000, EZDrummer, Diamond Drum 12" snare, S1000 toms/cymbals/kick, PCY10/100/135/155, CY-5/14, Hart Ride, Hart Acupad 8" kick, Epedal Pro II, Concept 1 pads/cymbals, SD1000 & Roland V Sessions racks, PD-7, Kit Toy 10" splash, DMPad ride, SamplePad, PerformancePad Pro

            Comment


            • #7
              I have to say I have been extremely disappointed with the VH-11 with my TD-9. I couldn't get the crispy, sharp, slightly open sound - particularly with 16th's (think middle break of Red Barchetta). If you look on page 4 of the VH-11 manual, it states that although it's compatible with the TD-8, and 9... it's not FULLY compatible until you get to the TD-12 and 20. I just upgraded to the TD-20 and will be trying setting it up this weekend. Hopefully I'll get some performance gains. I'll let you know.
              Tim Kim

              TD-9; PD-105 V-Pad (Snare); PD-85 V-Pad; KD-9 Kick Trigger Pad; CY-12C V-Cymbal Pad; CY-13R V- Cymbal Pad; CY-8-Cymbal; VH-11 V-Hi-Hat

              Comment


              • #8
                yes the td30 is expensive but heres a great deal on a td12 in case you wish to upgrade.
                http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-Td-12...item2ee0d5a912
                Pearl Mimic pro, A to E 7 piece Pearl Decade maple, ddrum Deccabons, Ddrum DDTi, UFO X-bar triggers, Real feel heads, Gibraltar rack, VH13, PD105 side snare, Roc-N-Soc,Tama Iron Cobra, Iron cobra high hat stand, Cobra clutch, Pearl throne thumper, Roland and Kit Toys cymbals, Roland KC 500, Promark

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by timothykim2112 View Post
                  I have to say I have been extremely disappointed with the VH-11 with my TD-9. I couldn't get the crispy, sharp, slightly open sound - particularly with 16th's (think middle break of Red Barchetta). If you look on page 4 of the VH-11 manual, it states that although it's compatible with the TD-8, and 9... it's not FULLY compatible until you get to the TD-12 and 20. I just upgraded to the TD-20 and will be trying setting it up this weekend. Hopefully I'll get some performance gains. I'll let you know.
                  How did the upgrade go?

                  Another question to anyone that can help, I'm just intrigued what is the very best Hi Hat controller on the market?

                  thanks again

                  jono

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    IMHO the single best HH is the VH13 connected to a TD30. It plays fantastically well. I have achieved very similar results with my VH11 connected to SD2 or EZDrummer2, both of which offer "transmuting". This feature allows the HH sound to be articulated AFTER the hit. So, you can open up the sound after the strike. It's not dependent on the position of the HH pedal prior to the strike. This is key to realistic HH performance.
                    ATV aDrums & aD5, Pearl Mimic Pro & DIY, Agean R-series Silent Cymbals, Roland Handsonic HPD-20.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jpsquared482 View Post
                      IMHO the single best HH is the VH13 connected to a TD30. It plays fantastically well. I have achieved very similar results with my VH11 connected to SD2 or EZDrummer2, both of which offer "transmuting". This feature allows the HH sound to be articulated AFTER the hit. So, you can open up the sound after the strike. It's not dependent on the position of the HH pedal prior to the strike. This is key to realistic HH performance.
                      I won't be able to afford a td30 for a long time so I've decided to buy a secondhand vh-11 (when one comes up on eBay) but it's my understanding that it will only partially work with a TD 8. I guess I need to figure out what Brain I should upgrade to that will allow me to fully use the vh-11 and be best bang for buck etc. I'm kind of thinking the TD-15.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There will be no difference in the VH-11 with any module when using VSTs. BFD3 has transmuting FYI. I'd suggest that you get the VH-11 and see how you like it with your chosen VST and the TD-8 and indeed you may find the TD-15 a step back as the Td-8 has positional sensing and the td-15 does not. If you're not using the module for sound then no reason to upgrade

                        Comment

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