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Need help and advice upgrading my TD 12 to something FANTASTIC!

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  • Need help and advice upgrading my TD 12 to something FANTASTIC!

    Hi guys,

    My first post :-)

    I bought a Roland TD12 seven years ago, I've been using it in my studio with Cubase and Superior Drummer 2.

    I always monitor the TD 12 module when tracking to bypass any latency issues (I hate even 3ms of computer latency)
    and record the MIDI stream which I then use to trigger Superior Drummer 2 and do any edits that might be needed.

    I'm now at the grand age of 51 ready to move on to a better kit.

    Now I'm looking I'm blown away by what has happended in the E Drumming world in the last 7 years!

    I was thinking of buying a TD 30KV but it's really too big for my studio space (an upstairs spare double bedroom)

    I've seen Drum Tec Diabolo drums on the web. The black set looks amazing.

    So here's my couple of questions.

    Q. Do third party drums like Drum Tec and Diamond Electronics drums trigger as well as the Roland 30KV pads.
    or is it better to get Roland pads for Roland modules,

    Q. I'm buying the TD30 module to make the experience of tracking sound better (as I listen to the module when tracking)
    even though I intend to use VST sounds afterwards - is this a crazy waste of money or will it be worth the upgrade.

    If I just upgrade my pads to say the Drum Tec Diabolo pads shell set and the TD 30 Module and use my current TD 12 cymbals and Hi Hat
    (VH11 and CY15R etc ) will I be better of also upgrading to the new TD-30KV cymbals as well?

    The VH13 HiHat does seem a waste of cash if your going to use VST sounds.

    Any help would be massively appreciated as I'm so overwhelmed by the options.

    Thanks
    tht











  • #2
    Going from a TD-12 to a TD-30 isnt going to give you the fantastic you are looking for sorry to say, Its not all that much better to justify spending that much money. For what you are doing I would think that better drums/Pads/Cymbals would be a better upgrade. From what I have heard and read, all those drums you have mentioned play every bit as good if not better than Roland drums. I built my own kit and it triggers as good as Roland drums, Building your own might be something to look into and would be a heck of alot cheaper.
    Roland TD-12 Ludwig A2E 5pc kit, VH-11
    Studio Drummer, Abbey Road 60's 70's 80's, AD2, SSD4, SD3
    Komplete Audio 6, JBL Eon 515XT, Mackie FX12, DAW Studio One 3

    Comment


    • #3
      I believe the biggest news from the last 7 years are the 2Box module, FSR pads and Gen16 cymbals.

      2Box modules can import your SD sounds, so you could actually play and hear what you are recording.
      FSR pads are probably the most accurate trigger system right now because of their design, not affected by crosstalk.
      Gen16 are a love/hate relationship whether you like the sounds or not.
      DTX700, eDRUMin 4+10, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH
      Kit Pix http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=613

      My new venture, HiEnd Speakers. : voglosounds.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks guys, that's great info,

        I have no idea what some of those things are you mentioned so I'll have to do some searching on the web.

        I think I'll stick with my TD12 (I'm starting to get the impression the TD30 module isn't a huge step up from the TD12)

        At this point, I'm probably going to go for a set of black Drum Tec Diabolo drums pads and use them to trigger my TD12 to
        create a MIDI stream for Superior 2.

        Then maybe further down the line I will look into the 2Box module.

        Thanks again for your feedback.
        Last edited by thehightenor; 03-18-15, 03:30 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          One more thing ....

          Would you go for the Drum Tec Diabolo pads or the equivalent sizes by Diamond Drums or Jobeky Drums.

          Diamond drums said they use the drum TEC heads, which made me think maybe Drum Tec heads work best with Drum Tec Pads?

          At this point I'm favouring Drum Tec but I do read good things about Diamond too.

          Any preferences for working with a TD12 and maybe eventually a 2Box module?

          Thanks again.

          Comment


          • #6
            If you are going to stay with your TD-12, which IMO is a smart choice considering how you use your edrums, I would encourage you to consider buying some VEX packs from vexpressionsltd.com. They can bring your TD-12 to life and heighten your experience while playing. You can make a big bang for $100 or less. You can likely find some informed opinions about VEX packs for your TD-12 in the V Expressions & Custom Kits forum on this site.
            Roland TD12 module / DIY Kit in progress, Gretsch Blackhawk A (soon to be E) kit.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by bwilburn79 View Post
              If you are going to stay with your TD-12, which IMO is a smart choice considering how you use your edrums, I would encourage you to consider buying some VEX packs from vexpressionsltd.com. They can bring your TD-12 to life and heighten your experience while playing. You can make a big bang for $100 or less. You can likely find some informed opinions about VEX packs for your TD-12 in the V Expressions & Custom Kits forum on this site.
              Thanks, I checked out the site - the demos sound great and would definitely give my TD12 module a new lease of life.

              I think I've decided to stick with my module and look to buy the Drum Tec Diabolo Black Shell pack.

              The 2Box module looks good, but it appears to have a few issues with Roland cymbals after reading the 2Box user forum.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by thehightenor View Post
                One more thing ....

                Would you go for the Drum Tec Diabolo pads or the equivalent sizes by Diamond Drums or Jobeky Drums.

                Diamond drums said they use the drum TEC heads, which made me think maybe Drum Tec heads work best with Drum Tec Pads?

                At this point I'm favouring Drum Tec but I do read good things about Diamond too.

                Any preferences for working with a TD12 and maybe eventually a 2Box module?

                Thanks again.
                You can use any mesh head brand you wish with any drum pad, whether that is Diamond or Jobeky or Roland or 2box or Drum-tec's own pads. It's completely down to your preference and budget. Buy the right size, and it will be compatible.

                Z-ED mesh heads are popular because of their great value.

                You're already using VST, is that live or just for recording? Considering getting a powerful audio interface, and have real-time VST drums with minimal latency.

                Kit wise; if you've got cash to splash... maybe custom built Diamond drums 10" and 12" toms / snare, space saving pads like I have. Oh you can do much better than basic black - MUCH better.
                ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ MegaDRUM
                ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
                PA Comparison Sheet

                Comment


                • #9


                  Originally posted by Kabonfaiba View Post

                  You can use any mesh head brand you wish with any drum pad, whether that is Diamond or Jobeky or Roland or 2box or Drum-tec's own pads. It's completely down to your preference and budget. Buy the right size, and it will be compatible.

                  Z-ED mesh heads are popular because of their great value.

                  You're already using VST, is that live or just for recording? Considering getting a powerful audio interface, and have real-time VST drums with minimal latency.

                  Kit wise; if you've got cash to splash... maybe custom built Diamond drums 10" and 12" toms / snare, space saving pads like I have. Oh you can do much better than basic black - MUCH better.
                  I only use my E Drums in my little project studio.

                  I do have a very powerful new Pro Built Audio PC (Hex overclock with 32GB RAM) and a super fast PCI-e RME Host card but still I hate 3ms of latency I still get as a round trip when using SD2.

                  I still much prefer monitoring the output of my TD12 module and then recording a MIDI stream to use after with SD2.0 - real time VST has never worked for me.

                  I guess I'm just very sensitive to the latency caused by VI's and PC recording buffers. Even with the RME on 32 buffers at 96KHz (0.7ms) there's to be added the RME converter latency of 1.5ms then there's the MIDI latency and before you know it your at 3 even 4 ms .... and it just has this weird "playing through custard feeling" that I don't get with the seemingly instant sound the TD12 module gives me.

                  Those Diamond drums look good on their website, but I do actually like black - plus I have a black rack and black rubber Roland cymbals - black shells would look OK in my room I think.




                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I upgraded my TD-15 module with the Alesis DM10 simply because none of the Roland modules have any sound that even remotely resembles that of a real snare drum. The Alesis, with it's samples, comes very close. I'm using the Alesis for drums and I retained the TD-15 because its cymbal sounds are much better than those of the Alesis. It did take a long time to get the Alesis to play nice with the Roland pads.
                    Acoustic: FrankenKit - Late '60s Slingerland Kit, Ludwig snare and floor tom, add-on Pearl toms, Zildjian, Sabian and Paiste cymbals. DW5000 double pedal.
                    Electric: Roland TD-25 for snare, cymbals and bass, Alesis DM-10 with Bluejay sounds for toms. Variety of Roland pads for cymbals and drums.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Welcome to the Forums!!! Post some pics of your set up! My 2 cents below, to be taken in moderation and with a ton of skepticism.

                      As for advice, based on your ORIGINAL post, you've come to the right place. I agree with some of the others above, and no so much in a few.

                      Unless you need more inputs, or the TD12 is creating a latency issue with the rest of your souped up hardware, OR you want BETTER sounds straight off the module...then there's NO NEED to upgrade your TD12 by buying a TD30 or a 2Box. Opinions vary on the TD30 but overall, in general, and in the majority here on THESE Forums (YMMV elsewhere), MOST agree the TD30 for it's price is not vastly superior to the TD20 or TD12 as far as SOUND of the actual drum sounds. Other features are in improvement, just not sure in the area of home recording via VSTs like you're doing.

                      MOST shells/triggers work well with Roland so no issues there. I know Diamonds do as well as other brands, not experienced with Drum Tec Diablo.

                      Everyone is always on and on about the VH13, not sure why lol. Seems to me (MY OPNION, others can hate it) the only real value in upper end Roland HHs is that they function like acoustic HHs, as in, mechanically there are two pieces that go up and down and some have foot splash capability. Others are just as happy hitting a single piece of hardware with a decent foot controller. Not sure what your comfort level and playing ability is so I'll leave that up to you. My VH12 works very well.

                      As for a 2Box, only to use it to trigger VSTs with the ability to just hear the same VSTs you're playing, seems to me a bit of a waste of money. If you want superior drum sounds built in (opinions vary but again, in these Forums, MOST agree the stock 2Box drum sounds are better than the TD30, YMMV and OPINIONS VARY and are full of all sorts of attitude lol) or want to play live while using VST sounds and no worries of running a laptop/PC on stage, then 2Box is the way to go.

                      Hopefully you'll get settled on some new choices and post even more pics on what you get!

                      K ;-)
                      My bands: Alter Ego, Arcanum
                      E Kit = Roland TDW-20s kit // Roland SPD-S// Pearl Demon Drives//
                      A Kit = Tama Swingstar 5 pc (1981) w/roto toms (orig owner!) //Zildjians
                      A Kit = Natal 6 pc with Paiste 2000 & Zildjian/MidiKNights/DrumSplitters

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Kenster,

                        Thanks for your reply and nice welcome :-)

                        Well I'm more confused than ever!

                        The situation feels a bit crazy, I just bought BFD3 in the 50% off sale - so it cost me 115 and the sound of BFD3 is out of this world, it just sounds like a really well recorded acoustic kit (I guess it is)

                        So I"m recording the MIDI stream in Cubase Pro 8 from my TD12 (monitoring the TD12 sounds a I play so I have no latency at all) and then using the MIDI to trigger BFD3 and the results are great.

                        It feels madness to spend 1500 on a TD30 module just to end up not using the sounds and using my 115 BDF3 sample set (or SD2, SSD4, Abbey Road Drums etc)

                        THAT SAID .....

                        I want to have the best illusion I'm playing an acoustic kit as I'm recording and I must say when I demoed a TD30K SE in a shop the combination of the SuperNatural thing and the Roland larger pads gave me the feeling I was playing an acoustic Kit even if I would then only be recording the MIDI and doing nothing with the Roland sounds (which I don"t think come even remotely close to something like BDF3)

                        3500 is a lot of money for just feeling not sound.

                        So I'm wondering if I should do as you say, keep the TD12 at the moment (which basically sounds the same as the TD30) and buy a set of Drum Tec Diabolo drums with their new Real Feel three ply heads (which Drum Tec say feel like playing acoustic drums) and then somewhere down the line I can buy a TD30 module maybe second hand and get a VH13 hat (I only have a VH11 hat) and I'll have the same as a Roland TD30K SE but with nicer shells and I will have spread the cost.

                        I think I've basically outgrown the KD85 and PD85 8" pads and would like bigger pads to hit as this seems to really help me feel like I'm on an acoustic kit.

                        Phew!

                        Ahhh too much choice and I need to be careful I don't waste money of course.

                        tht

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just keep in mind, when you go to pull the trigger on an actual module (your plan on getting the right shells with sizes and feel you prefer is the primary way to go IMHO) look at what you're doing with said module. Just triggering VSTs is overkill for either the TD30 or 2Box...if you EVER plan on playing your kit out live with VSTs, then 2Box will be a better fit since you can DITCH ALL YOUR PC stuff and just use the module.

                          If you really like the TD30 sounds then by all means, get that, but if I were just buying a module to trigger VSTs but I also want GREAT drum sounds, I'd probably go 2Box since it gives me the option of playing my VSTs without additional hardware. If you want simple and reliable performance with a nicer interface and more "built in" sounds right out of the box, and do not want the added work of converting VSTs and uploading and all that (which there is a little bit of work involved with 2Box but worth it) , then go with a TD30.

                          K ;-)
                          My bands: Alter Ego, Arcanum
                          E Kit = Roland TDW-20s kit // Roland SPD-S// Pearl Demon Drives//
                          A Kit = Tama Swingstar 5 pc (1981) w/roto toms (orig owner!) //Zildjians
                          A Kit = Natal 6 pc with Paiste 2000 & Zildjian/MidiKNights/DrumSplitters

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Kenster,

                            Thanks for the reply, it has some really useful information and also has some more food for thought, especially regarding the 2Box module.

                            Thanks again
                            tht



                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You say you need a better "feel" of the kit around you than playing those little 8" pads?

                              I completely agree, and since you already bought BFD3 to play with for some time, I would start by changing the kit, not the module.

                              Get something to look and feel like a real kit around you. Either with pay and play kits like Drumtec, Diamonds, etc... or a DIY version, which has the potential of saving money but is more involved and time consuming.

                              For me, I would keep the TD12, play BFD3 with it, and get real size pads/drums.
                              DTX700, eDRUMin 4+10, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH
                              Kit Pix http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=613

                              My new venture, HiEnd Speakers. : voglosounds.com

                              Comment

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