TD-30 USB driver and update issue, and a question

[happy_dude]

Hello,

By the good luck I've had the opportunity to replace my 10 years old TD-6KV with a second hand TD-30K with a VH-12 in very good condition.

I have a couple of issues about the USB driver for computer operation and the update of the module which is still in version 1.01 :

- I can't install the USB driver from the Roland site, tried on WinXP and Win7, no matter what I do the computer cannot find and install the driver. The computer does see the TD-30, simply, the Roland files seem not to fit the module somehow. As I understand this may be due to the fact that the module is not updated, but

- when I try to update the module none of the 4 USB drive I have seem to work (the module says on update power up : cannot find updater, please shut off. These USB drives work on the Roland Integra-7, I don't understand why the module cannot see the update files at the root upon update power up.

So am I missing something, is there something missing from the Roland site? Do I need to update via v1.10 before applying v1.12, if so, where can I find this update? I would really appreciate the help if someone knows what it is about I'm doing wrong. The warranty is still running, should I return the module? Is this a common issue and is there a fix to it?

The module works fine other than that, and it really holds up to the promise so far, as much as the kit, wow I mean Wow WOW!!! In the past month I was playing the Roland Integra-7 Supernatural drum sounds from the TD-6, so I already knew some of the new Roland sounds, but the TD-30 has much more sounds and articulations! I mean it worked very well with the Integra-7, but now with the TD-30 kit and the dedicated sound module, that's so much more of the same good as the old set up!

Then I have a question : I'm thinking about replacing the VH-12 by the VH-13, and adding a 4th tom by replacing the PD-125BK snare with a PD-128 on a snare stand so that the model could be dubbed TD-30KSE. So here's my question : what do you think is this really worth the other grand spent on upgrading the kit this way, or should I just get an extra PDX-100 and a clamp? If you have any experience in this, I would be happier even if this is possible to read about your experience!

Of course I could use the Integra-7 as a main audio interface, but I'm a little concerned about the midi latency induced by the Integra-7 relay if I plug a midi cable between the TD and Integra, and so it would be better to make the USB connectivity work.

Thanks for you help and advice!

[Intruder]

Welcome, and yes it is known that the TD30 can be picky about which usb sticks work. My suggestion would be to get a few small 4gb or less sticks of different brands and try them til one works.
Somewhere on the board here is a list of some known to work try the search. 4gb sticks are cheap and plentiful though.

The VH13 is well worth the upgrade and the PDX100 is also a fine pad for use as a tom and less expensive then the PD128.
YMMV just my opinion of course.
Good luck.

[happy_dude]

Alright ladies and gentlemen I figured it out, it appears the USB slot on the TD-30 has a minor solder issue or something like that, it seems only to interfere with the USB power required when turning the module on to update, not an issue, say a glitch no more, hopefully I hold the breath of my hand while maintaining the drive during the update and everything is now 100% fine and all good, driver and all!

Concerning the question issue, I think I'm secretly planning on upgrading the kit already, only the reasonable part of me has to be taken carefully to admit signing another big check on the behalf of the enthusiast irresponsible hardware nut! .. It'll be fine, I'll let you know!

So you have to know, if ever it happens you have troubles updating your module, it may be a simple USB slot casing maladjustment!

Thanks for the intention to help anyway!

[TangTheHump]

happy_dude,

Re replacing the VH-12 hats with the VH-13 hats. As long as your VH-12 hats are in good condition and operate properly, don't do it. There's no significant performance difference between the two pairs of hats. Also, the VH-13 name is misleading. You'd think these are 13 inch hats. They are not. The VH-13 hats are 12 inches in diameter, just like the VH-12. So, no performance difference and no difference in surface area = not worth the upgrade. Unlike the VH-12 hats, the VH-13 hats match the color of the newer MG cymbals. That's the only upgrade you get.

[Intruder]

happy_dude,

Re replacing the VH-12 hats with the VH-13 hats. As long as your VH-12 hat are in good condition and operate properly, don't do it. There's no significant performance difference between the two pairs of hats. Also, the VH-13 name is misleading. You'd think these are 13 inch hats. They are not. The VH-13 hats are 12 inches in diameter, just like the VH-12. So, no performance difference and no difference in surface area = not worth the upgrade. Unlike the VH-12 hats, the VH-13 hats match the color of the newer MG cymbals. That's the only upgrade you get.

Actually, Tang may be correct as I updated from a VH-11.
My bad, didn't mean to confuse.

[happy_dude]

Edit : following your good advice I cancelled the order and I will at least try to sell the VH-12 prior to decide anything new. I need a 4th tom though and I might go for the PDX-100 which is quieter than the PD-125BK (is it loud or is it me? If the tension of the head is not very tight it is acoustically very loud!) Sometimes the dream is not up to the reality check alas...

The VH-12 is also very loud, I'm surprised they didn't engineer more its acoustic sonic quality.

So I wonder if the PD-128 is as loud as the PD-125, and what the VH-13 compares to the VH-12 on that subject too.

But the kit is such a beauty, it plays so wll, it plays even better than I play! Let's live up to that!, and the TD-30 is an amazing sound box, I've already worked Supernatural drums sounds from the Integra-7, you can really get the exact sound you want.

Have a nice week end

[happy_dude]

So I'm answering myself to the VH-12 noise issue, after doing some research I found a thread (possibly by you TangTheHump?) on another forum showing how to soften everything with felt. On my way to the fabric store now.

Isn't life great?!

Edit : indeed the felt mod helps quite a lot with the noise of the VH-12 and it doesn't interfere at all with the triggering.

[TangTheHump]

happy_dude,

Re comparison of noise from various Roland mesh pads and VH-12 hats versus VH-13 hats. You're not going to hear much difference between the mesh pads, noise-wise, because they all generate about the same amount of acoustic noise, especially when considering a PD125 versus PD128. The PD125 and PD128 are identical in terms of acoustic noise. Similarly, the VH-12 and VH-13 hats generate identical acoustic noise.

Like you, I found the VH-12 / VH-13 acoustically loud, especially when using the hi-hat pedal to close the hats together. That's why I lined the upper and bottom cymbal pads with felt. To maintain proper triggering, you must add a felt on top of the sensor plunger to compensate for the extra thickness created by the upper and bottom pad felts. I also added felts at all contact points between hi-hat clutch and the cymbals. Though it's hard to see in the pictures, there is even a felt between the underside of the top hat bell and the bottom of the hi-hat clutch. Apart from noise reduction and creating a softer closing feel, my goal was to eliminate all metal to cymbal contact. I'm not sure if this is the tread you saw, but below is a link to the thread I wrote on this topic. You must be logged in to see the pictures.

VH-13 mods for better feel and quieter pedal.
http://www.vdrums.com/forum/general/...-quieter-pedal

[happy_dude]

Yep my guess was right I saw your post on the other forum, and I followed your lead about exactly, using furniture felts for the cymbal axis (tailored with a scissors, I also did that on the other cymbals, and the swing is improved as well), and regular felt fabric on both sides of the hat cymbals. I used double side adhesive patches designed to assemble photograph albums so it shouldn't melt the rubber and peel gently if needed.

The hi-hat noise is hugely reduced and you are right about the feel, it is better. The entire mod was about an hour and 10$, and it saved the VH-12 for me.

The PD-125-BK was loud as the head was fairly loose, and it was literally the acoustic sound of the wooden open bottom snare without a strain. Tightening the head solved the problem. I believe the PDX-100 is quieter because it's smaller and also because it's closed bottom.

Thank you for your nice mod and your kind replies!

[TangTheHump]

happy_dude,

Glad to hear you're happy with the results of your VH-12 fine tuning! :-)

About the PD-128, PD-125, and PD-100 pads. The PD-100 is the only one with a closed bottom, but that doesn't make much difference, noise-reduction-wise, as compared to Roland's other mesh pads. I've never heard anyone describe the acoustic noise of a mesh pad, whether properly or improperly configured, as you have so that's a tad worrisome. Low tension on the head will produce a slightly lower pitch, but the noise volume of mesh pads is fairly consistent across their tuning range. It should produce a low-volume, quick-decaying "ping", like a shuttle hitting a badminton racket. Are you in a particularly echo prone room? If you're unsure the pad is set up correctly, avoid playing it as you could damage the internal components with stick hits. You noted owning a TD-6KV for a long time so I assumed you know how to set up mesh pads. If you're not sure, don't hesitate to have a V-Drums dealer show you. It's well worth the hands-on lesson when first learning the proper way to set these pads up.

[happy_dude]

Yesterday evening I covered the walls with large pieces of various exotic purple and orange cloths, from thin (sari cut in half, 3 half cover the largest wall), to very thick (sleeping bag behind the piano), with some other chunks of mildly thick Indian purple and orange cloths. It matches the red thick rugs covering maybe 60% of the floor. It is much better now. Before I installed the drum set the biggest wall was covered with bookshelves, and there was a bed as well, so the acoustic was very deep and absorbing. I had to move the bed and the books elsewhere. But it's ok now with the cloths on the walls. The PD-125 was doing the noise of a low bongo in there. The head was not too loose to be safe to play, but I tightened it up and now it's back to the normal mesh tension noise. I'll experiment further.

When I discussed on the phone with the seller I was told the hi hat was a VH-13. I was suprised because the color was black but the guy insisted. When I finally saw the kit with the guy in person I found out it was a VH-12. It was a honest mistake from the seller. The price was too good anyway so I didn't even discuss that. My original plan was, be it a VH-13 as I thought, to get a PD-128 as a snare on a stand to make a TD-30K SE (better value in case of resell). Now that I'm inclined instead towards keeping the VH-12, I might as well go with the best price/quality option, i.e., the PDX-100. And it makes more sense on the MDS-12 rack. Somewhere after that along the way I might mod the PD-125 with the rim to make it a PD-128, although it appears the parts service at Roland for my area is really hard to get in touch with, for instance, the rubber replacement for my old FD-8 never reached the local Roland dealer store after reiterated orders from the store itself.. Let's hope we are not to learn shortly Roland is gradually ceasing its musical instruments activity (if the financial loss continues despite the management buyout last year...) Or I might do as a big boy and get a PD-125 big floor tom with a shiny new snare. I have to play the actual snare more for now to figure it out.

I still have another question coming along the discussion : do you think a snare on a 3 leg stand would transmit more vibrations to the floor compared to the snare on a clamp attached to the rack as it's on the MDS-12? Roland doesn't seem to sell as a separate the clamps with the ball mechanism on the arm, so it would be easy to take the one of the snare to place the 4th tom if the snare was on its own stand. I have to mention the drum kit is sitting on a thick rug under which are disposed 3 layers (total 4.5cm) of 2 different absorbing material, the upper of which being anti-vibration rubber. It's a trick that worked on the TD-6 with its loud rubber pads, but what of a 12' snare on a stand? Would it concentrate on the one spot area under the feet of the stand, or would it be just about the same? What do you think?

[TangTheHump]

happy_dude,

Snare pad (or any pad) with snare stand versus attached to a rack? I've noticed almost no difference in terms of acoustic noise of the pad. More or less floor vibration? Again, no noticeable difference I can discern. Where there's a huge difference is in positioning flexibility: I vastly prefer a snare stand over attaching to a rack, especially for a snare pad. Hope this helps.

[happy_dude]

Thank you, your opinion brings me to the point : I don't need a snare or a clamp, I need a snare stand for the PD-125 and a PDX-100 for the 4th tom and I'll use the current snare clamp to ajust it on the end of the right arm of the rack.

This afternoon I washed the mesh of the PD-125, cleaned the dust, noticed the surprising Made In USA on the shell, and applied the tension properly from scratch : much better. I start to believe the previous owner didn't really digged into it, he told me the shop delivered the kit and set it up at his home, I'm quite sure he never moved anything after that, good for me!

After that I did one more thing : the CY-15R bell sensitivity mod. Brilliant mod, it brings the dead horse CY-15 to life! It's easy, I recommand that mod! One thing I noticed once the rubber roughly in place without being secured, back to the kit for testing only, the bow was mistriggering the bell, but once the whole rubber secured, nothing like that, the cymbal is just sensitive on the bell the way it should be, the rest is unchanged. Enormous feeling of the solidity of these elements when opened, everything is so simple, spare parts are maybe dedicated, but there's nothing complicated in this hardware, it breathes quality all the way through!

Finally I connected the bell jack on the CY-13R to the Aux1 input, once you unassign the bow of the Aux1, you can freely use the bell. And I with a cable splitter there's a way to add say a BT-1 to the Aux1 head trigger, leaving after 3 complete auxiliary inputs for the future.

After I played at last and I designed a first kit, it's called "A loud old", see file attached. It's an idea of a lively old acoustic kit with no compression nor eq, a little bleeding, with overheads, and there's a chain on a china on the bell of the CY-13R connected to Aux1.

Have fun and a nice monday!