double bass ideas?

[cproctor]

Hi guys!
I just picked up a double bass pedal for my kit and I'm having trouble coming up with some different patterns to work on. Does anyone know of a good book for double bass, or even a website that might have some patterns to print out? Thanks for any input!

[BINARY]

There aren't that many double-bass books out there that I know of, and even fewer good ones.

I bought Joe Franco's book a number of years ago, and it's strictly luke-warm.
It's okay if all you're looking for is a ton of patterns to try, not all of which might sound good in a song.

However, Joe's general approach to double-kick playing is right on.
He doesn't really touch the subject of technique per se, but his basic strategy, although simple, is correct and well-explained.

If you're new to double-bass, just remember to keep your knees stationary - no bouncing up and down. Pivot at the ankle. It's harder at first, but pays off in the long-run.

BINARY

[RonBon]

Originally posted by BINARY:

If you're new to double-bass, just remember to keep your knees stationary - no bouncing up and down. Pivot at the ankle. It's harder at first, but pays off in the long-run.

I have a question related to this. I've played a standard five piece set for years and have recently bought a double pedal to play with my e-drums. What I've noticed is how much of a balance change it is, I played Hats with the heel down. Now when I switch over to both bass pedals I feel like I'm falling into the pedals. I've tried adjusting my seat up and down to adjust the center of balance but it doesn't seem to matter. I know it will come with time and practice but I'm looking for suggestions from anyone that might speed the process.

Also,

I have a catalog that lists
Tommy Aldridge - "Double Bass Drumming"
Don't own it so I can't review it for you.
Says it covers workout exercises



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RonBon

[puttenvr]

Contact the guys from the dutch Magazine Slagwerkkrant. http://www.slagwerkkrant.nl

They have a bookshop and a book called speed is of no concern or something like that.

[puttenvr]

I have the same question as RonBon.

I always play heel down on my pedals and - for some strange reason - I think that I will have to play with my toes when I use the twinpedal. The result is that I start to lean on my botton and have my legs fly in the air. With the result of moving knees, getting tired at the end and pain in my back. What did I do wrong?

Do you have any pictures for the correct position when playing double bass?

[bz]

Modern Drummer Published a book recentlty Called "Double Bass Drumming". Some exerpts from the book have been posted in the magazine. They seem challenging and informative, but they are just exerpts so cannot comment on the rest of the book. Other publications from Modern Drummer have been great ie:Joe Morelo's book. www.moderndrummer.com

[bwherry]

You want double bass exercises? I've got a
couple of good ones for ya. Always use a
metronome/click. With all of these, start
at a comfortable tempo and increase 'til
it's challenging.

1) Try 4 note paradiddles with your
feet, left foot leading: LRLL RLRR.
Play them as sixteenth notes, add a high
hat/snare over top so it's a 16th note
double bass beat. Then do it with the
right foot leading.

2) Doubles with your feet. Left foot leads,
then the right.

3) Comfortable playing 5 evenly spaced notes
over a beat? Try these 5 note paradiddle-
like patterns: LRRLL RLLRR Add the hh and
snare as before, making a totally wack
sounding 5-note-subdivision beat. Then lead
with the right foot.

4) "Double" paradiddles: LRLRLL RLRLRR
Six notes per beat, make a beat out of it,
etc.

Note: Once you get familiar with 1, 3, and
4, you can do them sequentially over the same
metronome click as a warmup. Start with a
slow click on the 4's, 'cause the 6's can get
*really* challenging!

5) Want to really punish yourself but
have a huge array of double bass chops?
This next one can become a HUGE exercise,
but will yield an amazing number of
patterns, as well as some pretty solid
technique. Okay, here's the exercise:
Play all the 4 note permutations of singles
and doubles with your feet. Start by making
a chart of the 4 note permutations of two
limbs (in this case it's your two feet) and
express them in binary code, like this:

0000
1000
0100
0010
0001
1010
0101
1100
0110
0011
1001
1110
0111
1011
1101
1111

The 0's are singles, the 1's are doubles.
Lead with your left foot first and play
LRLR, as eighth notes, at around 90 beats
per minute. That's the first one, 0000, all
singles. The second one, 1000, is a double
followed by three singles -- two sixteenth
notes with the left foot followed by RLR as
eighth notes. And so on, until you're doing
all doubles (1111). Do them all at least
once, and until they're solid and even.
Then do it again, leading with your right
foot.

6) Variation on #5. Now, musically, it's
the same exercise as #5, that is, all 1's
are going to be two sixteenth notes instead
of one eighth note, but instead of doing 1's
as doubles with the same foot, do them with
both feet -- singles twice as fast. Since
there may be an odd number of "doubles" per
permutation, the lead limb will be switching
all over the place. So do each permutation
an even number of times so when you go on to
the nextpermutation, you'll be leading with
the limb you started off leading with. Do
'em all, then switch the lead foot.

Good fun, eh? Oh, and I have two great
book recommendations: Mike Mangini's
Rhythm Knowledge vols. I and II. They
don't deal specifically with double bass,
but rather with all limbs, equally. Using
concepts and ideas presented in those books
you'll be able to come up with your own
patterns and exercises.

Hope this helps,

Brian

Note: If your strong foot is not your right,
substitute all occurences of "right" with
"left" and vice-versa. If you have more or
less than two feet, you're on your own.

Note2: I know the above is not counting in
4 bit binary. Binary counting isn't too
great musically, 'cause there ain't much
"flow" from one to the next, and all the
doubles creep in from one side... But you
can do it that way if you like...

[cproctor]

Is that all you have for me, Brian?!! ha ha. Thanks for spending the time it took to type that all!! That sounds like a good place to start! My right foot is DEFINITELY my strongest, so I've been just playing rythms that I would normally use my right foot on, just trying to get it use to playing. I will definitly also be sure to keep my heels down, because just like a few of you have mentioned, I was playing with my toes, bouncing my knees up in the air and just riding my tailbone!! ha ha. Not too comfortable for long periods of time! Thanks for all the great feedback, guys!

Chris

[RonBon]

Originally posted by puttenvr:
I have the same question as RonBon.

I always play heel down on my pedals and - for some strange reason - I think that I will have to play with my toes when I use the twinpedal. The result is that I start to lean on my botton and have my legs fly in the air. With the result of moving knees, getting tired at the end and pain in my back. What did I do wrong?

Do you have any pictures for the correct position when playing double bass?

Was my question that stupid? Or did I misread your attempt at sarcasm?


------------------
RonBon

[BINARY]

I don't think it was sarcasm, sounded like a valid follow-up question. Putt's not one for subtle sarcasm, if he was making fun of you, you'd know it.

You're both correct, when you first start playing this way, it's a little akward and you feel like you could tip over, but the balance comes with some time and effort.

Try sitting with your feet on the pedals, heels in the air, beaters to the KD-7 (cuz I KNOW you're all using the KD-7... ).
So now you're balanced, but the pressure is on your toes. Once you're there, just start playing something basic, but remembering not to bounce your leg, keep the motion to just pivoting the heel. After a while, it's all good.

Those are some cool exercises, but I think they'd take a long time and take all the fun out of learning double-bass. I used to take songs with fast tempos (even those with no double-bass) and just play double-kick over them forever. I'd just play as fast as I could all the time. I mean, I'm a little more settled now and I do regular chop-builders, but if you're just starting, having fun with it is the most important thing.

BINARY

[RonBon]

Originally posted by BINARY:
I don't think it was sarcasm.

BINARY

Thanks, We will wait to hear from Putt for the final verdict.

Thanks also for you suggestions. I'm getting there and I understand that I will get the balance thing down I was just looking for any short cuts someone may have had. I also like to play to songs versus standard exercises when learning something new. Then fire up that Metronome and get into a "zone" so to speak.



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RonBon

[R27789]

i have balance when playing double bass(single strokes) , UNTIL I start to try to move around the set, when doing rolls around the toms in 24th notes,(can't do 32nd yet) then I'd start to lose balance. I play with heel up, because of the volume factor, but try to have the heels as close or occasionally touching the floorboard.

So I do this, whenever I do fast rolls around the set and need more stability, I put the right heel down and play flat right foot only.. that way the volume from the left(leading with left) is maintained, while doing the fast hand rolls and keeping stable with the right foot.
You may get mismatched dynamics but it's better than losing the beat, and maybe it's a suggestion for non-professionals like me to use.(?)

Fon.

[stevekaux]

Yesterday, I finally got a double pedal (Tama Iron Cobra) along with a KD-80. I'd been using a KD-7 for the right foot, and a DW 5000 electronic pedal on the left, but it never felt right, since both pedals had a completely different feel. Now I can finally practice some double bass exercises, after ignoring it for eight years. Hopefully it will be a fast learning curve.

I'm basically using some of the basic hand rudiments on the feet--single stroke, paradiddles, and RRLRRL (whatever that's called). I'm also practicing ruffs with two kicks as the grace notes, and snare/crash as the accented note. Also a quick RLRS (same as ruff, but as a triplet). Finally, playing a triplet pattern with the two feet and either hand (RLHRLHRLH...). I mainly just want to do fills with double bass, so I'm concentrating on combining hands and feet, making sure that I don't become too dependent on the right foot or hand as the lead limb.

I will say that my left front calf muscle is a bit sore today. It's definitely not used to this!

[R27789]

I must say that all this discussion about double bass has also inspired me to take bass drum practise more seriously too, but not forgetting to have fun as always.

About the RLHRLHRLH triplet pattern, for right footers, is it usually more natural to play that pattern or using LRHLRHLRH ? I am a right footer and am more comfortable using the latter.

Fon

[stevekaux]

About the RLHRLHRLH triplet pattern, for right footers, is it usually more natural to play that pattern or using LRHLRHLRH ? I am a right footer and am more comfortable using the latter.

Fon[/B]

For whatever reason, I seemed to gravitate towards RLHRLH, without really thinking about it. But now you've inspired me to try it your way. You can never have too many tools in the toolbox, even if it sounds the same!

I'm quite happy with the progress I've made just in a few days of practice with double bass. I don't have the endurance to keep a single stroke going for very long, but I'm starting to get the ruffs down.

I would venture that anyone like me who's drummed for a number of years should be able to pick it up very quickly. No speed metal in my future, but I just want to be able to do a monster fill with some double bass mixed in for some heavy texturing.