Welcome! If this is your first visit, you will need to register to participate.

DO NOT use symbols in usernames. Doing so will result in an inability to sign in & post!

If you cannot sign in or post, please visit our Forum Talk section for answers to frequently asked questions.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Split off Edrum discussion from New Module on the Horizon thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Split off Edrum discussion from New Module on the Horizon thread

    After discussion with the OP, since the original thread was completely side tracked I created a new thread for the new topic to go on, and on, and on ..... LOL
    Last edited by JmanWord; 02-02-15, 05:20 PM.
    I could tell you where to stick that piezo! ;)
    Stealthdrums.com Mega Kit: Pearl Mimic Pro ,2Box modules,drums and cymbals too many to count. VST quality sounds directly from the Mimic and custom sounds loaded into and played directly from the 2Box modules. Visit me anytime at: http://stealthdrums.com/

  • #2
    Once again, do e drum companies do ANY focus group testing from ANY e drum forum members on ANY forum? I have never heard ANYONE on this forum say they were contacted by XYZ e drum company for their valuable input. NOT ONE FLIPPIN PERSON. Gottta be thousands of e drummers out there. We all must be the "niche" market types that want all this functionality...the e drum companies must feel the general masses out there don't want or need the functionality desired and needed and mentioned by everyone here (over and over I might add!).

    So if we, us, the mass numbers of e drummers, are NOT the target market for all these companies, WHO DO THEY THINK ARE BUYING ALL THESE KITS? There must be tens of thousands of secret home noodlers buying e kits all over the globe if all of US here on this forum and others like it are NOT the target consumer.

    Can anyone explain this??? Maybe Alan should do a huge feature op ed piece in digitalDrummer and ask these questions of all the e drum maker "big wigs" who make all the production/feature decisions. WTH is going on??? WHY aren't they leaps and bounds ahead of the functionality and ingenuity curve like every other piece of tech on the planet? Another reason why things have quieted down on this Forum...nothing new and exciting and cutting edge or evolutionary has been released, and the major companies seem content to sit on their laurels because what they make sells enough apparently to make a profit, and there is no other competition on the horizon, so they can dictate what they want as far as price, and features, which by almost all accounts here on the Forums, is NOT in line with what we all want anymore.

    Just sayin.

    JMAN and anyone else...wanna go into business to make a MODULE that does what we want and need, and a software/PC interface to make adding VSTs a dream? We wouldn't even need to make hardware, just make it compatible with everyone else's stuff, and we just rake it in with module sales!!! Who's with me? I'd seriously look at getting a small business loan to do it.

    K ;-)
    My bands: Alter Ego, Arcanum
    E Kit = Roland TDW-20s kit // Roland SPD-S// Pearl Demon Drives//
    A Kit = Tama Swingstar 5 pc (1981) w/roto toms (orig owner!) //Zildjians
    A Kit = Natal 6 pc with Paiste 2000 & Zildjian/MidiKNights/DrumSplitters

    Comment


    • #3
      Kenster,

      You hit the proverbial hamster on the head! It's as though the e-drum companies (especially Roland and Yamaha) have decided to leave both the acoustic drumming and electronic drumming audiences behind and create an entirely new market. Surely, by now, both Roland and Yamaha must know that their e-drum products are largely dismissed by acoustic drummers. That's a huge problem... at least, were I at the head of the electronic drums division of either of those companies, to me, that would be a big problem... that the vast majority of my target marketplace dismisses my product, either due to functionality and performance, and/or due to price. But Roland in particular, has been ignoring this for years so it will be interesting to see how the e-drum marketplace evolves over the next few decades. Kudos to NFUZD for realizing that proper drum sizes are a critically needed improvement... something Roland and Yamaha still don't understand.

      Comment


      • #4
        If the current suppliers have got it so wrong, why are sales of electronic percussion growing FASTER than acoustics, and why are retailers devoting more floor space to electronics and less to acoustics? Much as we enjoy the debate here, vdrum members are not representative of the broader market.
        . digitalDrummer
        Review index

        Comment


        • #5
          Newcomers or parents wanting to buy a drum kit for their kids, when faced with buying a cheap acoustic drum kit, used to only have the cheap acoustic drum kit to buy! I'm sure a bunch of parents turned to something lighter and less noisy, like a keyboard or an acoustic guitar.

          I see the boom of e-drums sales as the coming of cheap e-kits that are offering parents and newcomer a chance to get something to bang on, without annoying their house relatives or neighbourhood to death!

          This forum is not representative of that bracket of consumers. To us, most of these have much to offer, as we already owned an A-kit, or a cheaper e-kit and got fed up of cheap e-sounding kits with their limitations.

          Not many Walmart shoppers in here. The demographics targeted by the cheap Chinese kits. Or parents looking to buy a "birthday" kit.

          Kinda like Rollerblades came in. At first, they were expensive, and only some wealthier sports person would get a pair. Then, the Chinese copies flooded the market and pretty much every house had a pair of roller skates.

          I don't think every house will have an e-kit, but where small keyboards and cheap guitars were the music "gift" for a long time, e-drums are making their way into the minds of consumers.

          For us, we want the icing, but we want the cake too.
          DTX700, eDRUMin 4+10, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH
          Kit Pix http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=613

          My new venture, HiEnd Speakers. : voglosounds.com

          Comment


          • #6
            allanjohn wrote:
            If the current suppliers have got it so wrong, why are sales of electronic percussion growing FASTER than acoustics, and why are retailers devoting more floor space to electronics and less to acoustics?
            This certainly isn't the case where I live. We have three major music chains and a number of smaller ones, and none of them are selling e-drums faster than acoustic drums. In fact, it's quite the opposite scenario. Cheap e-drums occupy a small portion of floor space. The remaining space is occupied by a large range (low, mid, and high end) of acoustic drums because that's what sells, especially given their significantly better price and performance.

            Interestingly and topically, one rarely finds mid end and high end electronic kits. Retailers won't bring them in because the price-to-performance ratio is poor and the overall price too high - these kits won't sell so retailers don't bring them in. Then you have the actual playing scenario demographics. Whether it's kids playing in the garage, a basement band, two nights a week at the local pub, semi-professionals, or actual professionals... acoustic drums are what you find. I NEVER see electronic drums being used anywhere for performance. Around here, e-drums are sold as a quiet practice tool. This fact and their poor price-to-performance ratio are a huge part of what limits their sales. E-drums aren't perceived as an instrument; they are a practice tool, not an instrument, or at least that's the general perception and how they're presented by retailers.

            Most importantly, I stand by what I said above re the large majority of acoustic drummers dismissing electronic drums. Talk to any group of acoustic drummers and see what they say. The salespeople (at major retailers) have the same reservations. Heck, when I bought my TD-30KV kit, the salesperson said "even at this level, e-drums still have a long way to go... why are you buying this kit?" He wanted to make sure I understood the limitations of the kit so the sale wouldn't come back as a dissatisfied customer.

            So yes, e-drum manufactures have a long way to go in terms of improving and/or entirely redesigning their products before e-drums will become mainstream. Short version, the current electronic kits do have it "wrong"... at least as far as the large majority of acoustic drummers are concerned. The list of wrongness includes things like incorrect pad sizes, poor sonic performance (unrealistic sound, machine gunning, etc.), lack of responsiveness and expressiveness, lack of support for brushes and other playing implements, cymbals that don't swing properly, poor portability, complexity when setting up (handling wires, power requirements, racks, etc.), terrible price-to-performance ratio, and many other problems.
            Last edited by TangTheHump; 01-31-15, 10:22 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Tang, this is the global trend, reported by music industry bodies. And note that I said sales are growing faster, not "selling faster". There is a significant difference.
              . digitalDrummer
              Review index

              Comment


              • #8
                allanjohn,

                allanjohn wrote:
                Tang, this is the global trend, reported by music industry bodies. And note that I said sales are growing faster, not "selling faster". There is a significant difference.
                I didn't catch the "growing faster" versus "selling faster", but I've see it now. Hmmm. Seems like a data presentation trick. In this case, "growing faster" is a fairly meaningless metric. Meaning, if acoustic drums dominate the market and represent the majority of sales, their "growing faster" metric will be alarmingly small whereas e-drums, as they're still in discovery stage, may have a larger "growing faster" metric. The majority of sales are still acoustic drums despite the e-drums having a larger "growing faster" metric. (i.e. This is one of those entirely misleading numbers unless you understand what it means.) Will e-drums ever represent the quantity of sales and sales revenue that acoustic drums currently represent? One would need to watch appropriate metrics over a statistically valid period (sample size) to come up with a reasonable prediction.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't think the problem is Roland or Yamaha or any of these other manufacturers. I'm thinking the problem is us. Let me put this in to another context and tell me if any of this sounds familiar to what you read here on this forum.

                  A guitar player walks in to a music store and plays an acoustic guitar. He/she loves acoustic guitar. All the tone, the warmth, the feel are fantastic. But, this person has neighbors with thin walls and he/she cant really rock out "Dave Matthews" style on the acoustic because the neighbors complain. So he/she walks over to the electric guitars and starts strumming away. The noise is certainly quieter, but the tone, the warmth, and especially the feel are totally off. Yeah, its a guitar and notes (sort of like what come out of the acoustic but not really) are being played, but its just not right. So this guitar player walks up to a sales person and says,

                  Guitar Player: I'm an acoustic guitar player, but I have really picky neighbors and they complain every time I pull out the guitar to rock out to "Tripping Billies". I want something that is quieter but is like my acoustic guitar. Whats out there that would work for me?"

                  Sales Associate: Well have you checked out the electric guitars? They are much quieter acoustically and can be plugged in the an amplifier if you want to rock out.

                  GP: Yeah, I tried those. I don't know, they don't really sound like my acoustic guitar.

                  SA: Yeah, that's because its electric.

                  GP: Well, why doesn't it sound like my acoustic?

                  SA: Because its electric. Its a totally different instrument to your acoustic guitar.

                  GP: But its a guitar. It should sound like my acoustic guitar.

                  SA: Nope. Its a different instrument all together. Different sounds, different feel, totally different vibe. It can mimic an acoustic guitar through the use of processors, but its not the same as your acoustic guitar.

                  GP: Oh, so it can sound like my acoustic guitar?

                  SA: Yeah, pretty close. Its all done through processing and interpretation of the notes being played and augmentation on the sound. Its close, but its not like the real thing?

                  GP: Well, why doesn't it sound like an acoustic? This is 2015 for cryin' out loud. You're telling me in this day and age that you cant get an electric guitar to sound like an acoustic?

                  SA: Well, no.

                  GP: Well, WHY NOT!

                  SA: Because its an electric guitar.

                  GP: And why is the electric guitar so thin and small? It feels awkward to play. My acoustic is big and I have to wrap my arms around it to play. It makes me feel like I'm one with the instrument. I don't get that feeling when playing an electric.

                  SA: That's because the electric guitar doesn't need to be as big to get the sound. It has pickups and electronics sending signals to the amplifier to make it loud. Your acoustic guitar needs to be big to create and amplify the sound.

                  GP: But that's stupid! Why make an electric version an acoustic instrument and not make is sized properly?

                  SA: Because its electric. Its a different instrument. You play it the same way as the acoustic, but its a different animal all together. The pieces are all in the same place, and chords are still played like they are on an acoustic, but its a different feel that you just have to get used to if you want to play it.

                  GP: Boy, you're telling me it takes getting used to. My fingers feel all weird and what the hell are all these knobs and this thing my palm is smacking up against? Whats this stupid bar do?

                  SA: Well, that's the cool thing about an electric guitar, you have lots of different pickups to change the tone of the sound the guitar produces. The thing your palm is hitting is a bridge to give the strings dramatic pitch bend. That bar hanging there is to control the pitch bend to your desire. You can play lots of different things on an electric guitar that cant play on an acoustic. You can plug it in to different pedals or processors and make it sound like a totally different instrument. Its really cool and allows you to be more creative in your playing.

                  GP: I don't want all those stupid things on my guitar. I want it to sound, feel and play like my acoustic guitar! Why did the manufacturer put this stupid stuff on there! Are they morons or something? This is a guitar! I don't care that its an ELECTRIC guitar! It should look, sound, feel and play like an acoustic guitar! PERIOD!!! God! Don't they have focus groups on this kind of stuff? Give the people what they want!

                  SA: But it's an electric guitar. It's not an acoustic guitar. If you want the look, sound, feel, and performance of an acoustic guitar, you should stick with an acoustic guitar.

                  GP: Maybe I should. These electric guitars are a rip off anyway. Seriously? They want $3000 for that electric guitar? I can get a really nice acoustic for half the price and it actually SOUNDS like an acoustic guitar! None of those stupid knobs and "Whammy bars" cluttering it up either. WTF does "whammy" even mean? What is this thing: A toy? It's like the manufacturers have no clue what people want!

                  SA: Well, the manufactures still make acoustic guitars. The electric is a new instrument. It can be used in conjunction with, or separately, or played together in songs to expand the possibilities that you wouldn't if you only had one instrument.

                  GP: BUT IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE MY ACOUSTIC!

                  SA: [email protected] my life...
                  Last edited by Tommy_D; 02-01-15, 12:21 PM.
                  I think my work is done here.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So, with the above conversation, would you look at the acoustic guitar player and say, "Dude, you are an idiot. If you want an acoustic sound, feel, tone, size and performance, you should stick with an acoustic guitar." I certainly do. I think the acoustic guitar player, in this scenario, is being unreasonable. They want an exact replica of of their acoustic instrument, only in electronic form. And that's just not how it works. An electrical signal that gets interpreted and played through an amplifier is never going to sound and feel like the acoustic counterpart. And because the instrument is electric, it has different design requirements than an acoustic instrument has. It doesn't need to be big to make the sound it makes. It doesn't need to be built out of the same materials to make the sound it makes. Because of this it can be designed very differently and perhaps even more advantageous than its acoustic counterpart.

                    With that said, the electric instrument shouldn't be limited to only being a replica of the acoustic counterpart. You have so much more at your fingertips with an electric instrument to be far more creative in your music and your playing. If someone doesn't want that and only wants a replica of an acoustic instrument, then they shouldn't even be looking at electronic instruments. Just stick with the acoustic and spend your money elsewhere because you will never be satisfied buying an "imitation" of the real thing.

                    P.S. Yes, I'm talking to most of the people in this very thread. If you are not satisfied with an electric drum set, then sell it and buy an acoustic kit. An e-kit is a different instrument and it will never be a direct copy of the acoustic counterpart. Its not designed to be, and it shouldn't be restricted to such limited tasks when it can do so much more.
                    Last edited by Tommy_D; 02-01-15, 12:29 PM.
                    I think my work is done here.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tommy_D View Post
                      So, with the above conversation, would you look at the acoustic guitar player and say, "Dude, you are an idiot. If you want an acoustic sound, feel, tone, size and performance, you should stick with an acoustic guitar." I certainly do. I think the acoustic guitar player, in this scenario, is being unreasonable. They want an exact replica of of their acoustic instrument, only in electronic form. And that's just not how it works. An electrical signal that gets interpreted and played through an amplifier is never going to sound and feel like the acoustic counterpart. And because the instrument is electric, it has different design requirements than an acoustic instrument has. It doesn't need to be big to make the sound it makes. It doesn't need to be built out of the same materials to make the sound it makes. Because of this it can be designed very differently and perhaps even more advantageous than its acoustic counterpart.

                      With that said, the electric instrument shouldn't be limited to only being a replica of the acoustic counterpart. You have so much more at your fingertips with an electric instrument to be far more creative in your music and your playing. If someone doesn't want that and only wants a replica of an acoustic instrument, then they shouldn't even be looking at electronic instruments. Just stick with the acoustic and spend your money elsewhere because you will never be satisfied buying an "imitation" of the real thing.

                      P.S. Yes, I'm talking to most of the people in this very thread. If you are not satisfied with an electric drum set, then sell it and buy an acoustic kit. An e-kit is a different instrument and it will never be a direct copy of the acoustic counterpart. Its not designed to be, and it shouldn't be restricted to such limited tasks when it can do so much more.
                      You make some good points but one key point that is a really important one is the acoustic "noise" level. There are a huge no. of people now playing electronic drums that either started playing again after years of not playing, or new drummers playing that might not even be drumming if it weren't for the advantage of being able to play quietly. I wonder how many parents considering an instrument for their kids are more open to electronic drums. There is also the advantage on stage, or in churches for example of being able to control the volume. I don't believe electronic drums will take the place of acoustic drums, but they are definitely here to stay and will continue to get closer to the emulation of acoustic drum play and sounds as well as the other non acoustic advantages that only electronic drums can offer. Also, it is nice to have the advantage of being able to turn the dial and dial up a great Sonor, Ludwig Vistalite, Pearl, Tama, etc. etc. Latin Percussion, Metal, Reggae, funk, type set of drums ..... whatever you want on one electronic kit.
                      Last edited by JmanWord; 02-01-15, 02:47 PM.
                      I could tell you where to stick that piezo! ;)
                      Stealthdrums.com Mega Kit: Pearl Mimic Pro ,2Box modules,drums and cymbals too many to count. VST quality sounds directly from the Mimic and custom sounds loaded into and played directly from the 2Box modules. Visit me anytime at: http://stealthdrums.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tommy_D View Post
                        So, with the above conversation, would you look at the acoustic guitar player and say, "Dude, you are an idiot. If you want an acoustic sound, feel, tone, size and performance, you should stick with an acoustic guitar." I certainly do. I think the acoustic guitar player, in this scenario, is being unreasonable. They want an exact replica of of their acoustic instrument, only in electronic form. And that's just not how it works. An electrical signal that gets interpreted and played through an amplifier is never going to sound and feel like the acoustic counterpart. And because the instrument is electric, it has different design requirements than an acoustic instrument has. It doesn't need to be big to make the sound it makes. It doesn't need to be built out of the same materials to make the sound it makes. Because of this it can be designed very differently and perhaps even more advantageous than its acoustic counterpart.

                        With that said, the electric instrument shouldn't be limited to only being a replica of the acoustic counterpart. You have so much more at your fingertips with an electric instrument to be far more creative in your music and your playing. If someone doesn't want that and only wants a replica of an acoustic instrument, then they shouldn't even be looking at electronic instruments. Just stick with the acoustic and spend your money elsewhere because you will never be satisfied buying an "imitation" of the real thing.

                        P.S. Yes, I'm talking to most of the people in this very thread. If you are not satisfied with an electric drum set, then sell it and buy an acoustic kit. An e-kit is a different instrument and it will never be a direct copy of the acoustic counterpart. Its not designed to be, and it shouldn't be restricted to such limited tasks when it can do so much more.

                        Right on!
                        That is how I have thought since day one.
                        It's uncanny how often you and I agree. It's like we are the same just different.
                        I have also heard this "I don't like electronica or rap it's not real music, the only real music is Ludwig Von" Well duh! It's not the same but it is music!
                        Eyes of the beholder folks!
                        Thank God, I love my TD30 and all the really cool different sounds it can make with just the small addition of $100 here and there depending on what I want it to do!
                        "It makes sense if you dont think about it"

                        Mimic Pro, SPD-SX, 2-QSC K-10s, K-sub, Yamaha mixer, and a bunch of other expensive cool things!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Intruder View Post
                          Right on!
                          That is how I have thought since day one.
                          It's uncanny how often you and I agree. It's like we are the same just different.
                          I have also heard this "I don't like electronica or rap it's not real music, the only real music is Ludwig Von" Well duh! It's not the same but it is music!
                          Eyes of the beholder folks!
                          Thank God, I love my TD30 and all the really cool different sounds it can make with just the small addition of $100 here and there depending on what I want it to do!
                          While I would love to use the electric kit as a direct replacement for my acoustic drums, there needs to be an understanding that its a different instrument. I understand this. I know that the sound I get out of it isn't going to be like the sound I get out of an acoustic kit. It will be close, but it will have a more polished and "mastered" sound. I know it will feel different to play. I know it will look different (this can be changed through A2E conversions which I have done).

                          One thing that I also understand, but have not explored yet, is integrating all the other sounds in to my playing. There is so much that you can do with these kits that playing them like an acoustic kit is merely scratching the surface. If all you want is snares, toms, bass and cymbals, you aren't even using half the capability of what it can do. That's like buying a super car and driving it around to the shops. Sure you are using it, and its fun to drive, but it can do so much more. Wouldn't you feel a bit ripped off if you had a Ferrari and you never took it about 60/mph (75/kph for you non-USA people)? A bit overpriced for what you use it for, right?

                          Once I get my TD-30 kit back up and running, and get a better understanding of how to use my 2Box module, I'm going to try and re-learn how to use these kits to maximize their potential. We all spend a crap load of money on these kits and most of us only scratch the surface of what they can do. We end up feeling ripped off because we aren't maximizing the potential of the module. I'm sure if we all started using more of the sounds, and used more of the looping features, effects, kit change, and all the other stuff these things can do we would feel far more satisfied.

                          Perhaps if there was less *****ing about what the module can't do, and more talk about what the module can do this forum would be a place for inspiration and creativity, not *****ing and tech support.
                          I think my work is done here.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Precursor: apparently I'm another "thread derailer", but I think it's worth debating where e-drums lack (especially the fundamental aspects) because this is the future evolution for the instrument. :-)

                            Re the notion that the problem with electronic drums isn't the instrument itself, but rather that users hold them up to acoustic drum standards. I call BS on this. If an instrument doesn't meet the needs of its users, regardless of whether it be acoustic, electro-mechanical / electro magnetic, purely electronic, or something else, the failure still lays with the instrument. Certainly, I've played my fair share of acoustic drum kits that were poorly made and didn't meet my needs. By "poorly made", I mean many things, including well built but poorly designed, defective workmanship, and a myriad other things... but ultimately I mean anything that gets in the way and/or that takes me out of the headspace of music making.

                            First, let's get one the most fundamental problems with electronic drums out of the way. Despite advancements in triggering, sensitivity, and sound generation, when I play electronic drums I must accept that a good portion of my expression (the playing strokes I make) don't get through. That's because the instrument has no way to interpret and pronounce all of my strokes. Case in point, if I raise the angle of my stick for the quiet notes of a shuffle and lower the angle for the backbeat (a common technique with shuffles), there is no difference in sound. The shuffle is, quite literally, missing an important part of its lilt. Now you can say "but, but, but... electronic drums don't track the angle of sticks". So what? The point is there *is* an instrument that *does* track the angle of my sticks and that responds accordingly. That instrument is called acoustic drums (or just drums, as per the mainstream) and this is one of the many reasons why this instrument is superior to the one called "electronic drums".

                            Actually, let's address another fundamental issue. Dynamic range. Even with the best sample libraries, electronic drums are limited to the dynamic range of current electronics. Thus, while you might fool listeners of recorded music where the dynamic range of all instruments is limited due to recording devices, none-the-less, you certainly won't fool listeners in live music environments. And, indeed, even in recording environments, the difference in dynamic range capabilities of instruments like acoustic piano, acoustic bass, acoustic guitar, etc., and... electric instruments, like electric guitar, electric bass, Rhodes piano, and Hammond organ (all of which have huge dynamic range capabilities) make electronic drums sound out of place.

                            Purely electronic keyboards, such as synthesizers and digital pianos, have come a long way and now have greater dynamics and playing capabilities in the range of what pianists expect. Most importantly, look at the progression of the digital piano. Let's underline that point. It wasn't until manufacturers perfected the weighted keyboard and the expressive abilities of the instrument to a point that pianists found acceptable that these instruments caught on. Does this mean pianists were wrong to expect so much? Heck no! The purely electronic instruments were limited and better alternatives (like acoustic piano, Rhodes piano, and the Yamaha electric piano) were available.

                            This is exactly the situation presented to drummers today. We have a (currently) limited instrument by the name of electronic drums - limited in expressive capabilities and priced high. But, there are vastly superior alternatives (both sonically and price-wise) in the acoustic drum world. This is why acoustic drums continue to be the choice of drummers who want to make maximum artistic statements. These drummers, just like the pianists, don't want their expression limited by a poor instrument. Put quite simply, electronic drums are currently in their infancy and have a long way to go before they meet the performance expectations drummers are used to and require.

                            Let's debunk one more comparison. Electric guitar versus electronic drums. The electric guitar is a brilliant bit of engineering. It's simple and extremely expressive. It provides all the playing techniques and expression acoustic guitar players expect and it adds new playing techniques not possible on acoustic guitar. Most importantly, the interface (strings, scale, neck length and thickness, body shape, etc.) are all very similar to acoustic guitar... so much so that acoustic guitarists can sit down and start playing comfortably right away. None of this is true (currently) for electronic drums. For starters, even with the most expensive kits (TD-30KV, DTX-950K, 2box DrumIt Five), the playing surfaces are the wrong size and don't feel and react the way acoustic drums do. FULL STOP. Until this problem is fixed, you will not get the legions of acoustic drummers to accept electronic drums. It's that simple. The playing interface is broken and this doesn't even address the expressive issues.

                            The electric guitar, electric bass, and other electric instruments (such as the Rhodes piano) all succeeded because their interface and expressiveness equaled or bettered other alternatives. Plus, the electric instruments brought portability. There's another place current electronic drums fail. Electronic kits that come closer to mimicking acoustic drum interface and expressiveness are all heavier, more complex, more cumbersome, and hugely more expensive than their acoustic counterparts.

                            So, I don't fault drummers for recognizing the immature status of electronic drums and making appropriate choices. They're simply choosing the best tools for the job. Consider a contractor who features using an "acoustic hammer". The acoustic hammer works slowly and is far more inconsistent than it's powered counterpart, resulting in the job taking longer and the work being of poorer quality. You also have the choice of hiring a contractor who uses a "powered hammer" and all of this contractor's clients comment on how happy they are with the superior speed and quality of the work. Who you gonna' hire? That's the decision drummers are making. They're choosing tools that get them hired. When electronic drums help in this endeavour, they'll get a lot more attention from drummers.

                            Currently, for me, given the limitations of electronic drums, acoustic drums are the instrument I use most of the time for making music. That said, I do use electronic drums for quiet practice, for teaching, and as a compositional tool.
                            Last edited by TangTheHump; 02-02-15, 02:12 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Tang, you are exactly the person who I'm talking about in my scenario above. You fail to recognize that the electronic drums are a different instrument than their acoustic counterpart and are not designed to be a direct imitation and replacement. You don't take an electric guitar to an acoustic performance. It doesn't matter that they are played the same way, or even that the electric guitar can come close to sounding like an acoustic guitar. Its an acoustic performance so you use the acoustic guitar! Why? Because its the right instrument for the job.

                              You play acoustic drums if you want an acoustic performance and nuance that only an acoustic drum set can give you. You don't use an electric drum set to try and mimic that. Again, what you talk about is trying to get an exact replica and imitation of an acoustic instrument just in electronic form. If that's all you see in an e-kit then you are so blind folded to all the possibilities this instrument actually gives you. It's a different instrument and is designed to be played and best utilized by playing it differently than you would an acoustic kit. Can you play it like an acoustic kit? Sure. The basic layout is all the same as an acoustic kit, but if that's the only way you play it, you will be missing out on all the other ways it is designed to be played.

                              From day one here you have complained about your TD-30 not playing like your acoustic kit. It doesn't sound like an acoustic kit... its not sized properly... its dynamics aren't the same, etc. Get over it. Its not an acoustic kit. Its an electric kit! Use it for its intended purpose and you will actually see the benefits and enjoyment it provides. If you need the sound and performance of an acoustic kit, play the acoustic kit! If you need the sound and performance of an electric kit, play the electric kit.

                              It seems that every player of every instrument out there has figured out a way to find the advantages and disadvantages of their acoustic and electronic instrument of choice... with the exception of drummers. Why? Are drummers so closed minded to seeing what else they, as a musician, can create? Do they not realize that they can use an acoustic kit to its maximum potential in one environment, and then find that an electronic kit would be better utilized in another? Why do we not look at electronic drums as a new instrument to expand on what we couldn't do with an acoustic kit? Keyboardists use a keyboard in fantastically different ways than they use a piano. Most music today would only be able to be created using a keyboard. A piano wouldn't be able to do what the music requires of it. Imagine if someone like Beethoven had access to keyboards that we have today. What do you think he would have been able to produce if he had all of those new options available to him when writing music? It would be insane!

                              So why do drummers not see an electronic drum set as a different instrument? We have to get it through our heads that it is a different instrument. It has its advantages and disadvantages, just like an acoustic kit does. You have to pick the right tool for the job, because if you pick the wrong one and expect it to work just like the right one would, you will be sorely disappointed.
                              I think my work is done here.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X