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Roland BT-1 questions.

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  • Roland BT-1 questions.

    For those who have used Roland's BT-1 bar trigger, I've got a few questions:

    1.) What is the sensitivity of the BT-1 like? Is it equivalent to a Roland mesh pad or is it less sensitive so as to eliminate cross-talk from its attachment point? Basically, how hard must one hit this thing to obtain triggering and what is its dynamic range like?

    2.) Given the BT-1 is a single trigger, I'd like to use two of them across a split aux input from the TD-30. I've heard that the BT-1, despite being a single piezo trigger, actually uses two piezos and a switch for cross-talk elimination and thus requires the full stereo connection on an input. Has anyone tried using a BT-1 on a split input? If so, what happens?


  • #2
    Hi!

    I am using two BT-1's mounted on my snare...(However - I am using MegaDRUM as TMI)

    The BT-1 consist of one piezo and a switch. I have configured them so it is the switch which is triggering when hitting the on the BT-1 surface. The piezo is used to determine the xcross talk from the snare or the other BT-1. I would argument that sensivity is like when hitting a cymbal switch or a edge trigger on a VH-11 hi-hat. I would say it is actually quite sensitive but not as tapping a mesh head with very light hits.

    It is using one stereo input to be able to utilze the crosstalk elimination. From a cross talk standpoint - I can just say - there is no chance in h... to make it trigger by accident...my best recommendations!

    Best Regards

    ANGR77




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    Pearl CrystalBeat and Sonor Safari, Roland CY-14/13R/15R/12CR,RT-10/30,BT-1,VH-11/12/13 & KD-10, Dingbat,Triggera D14, D11, ATV AD-h14, PCY-155, 120MHz MD with PS board, 2box 3/5/5MKII, dd4SE, Yamaha DTX502, Addictive Drums 2.1.19. All ADpaks, Microsoft Surface PRO, Macbook, Pearl Throne Thumper, Zourman HH & Ride Conv Kit www.zourman.com

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    • #3
      On the td30, I use the bt-1sens setting. I find the sensitivity quite good from the lightest of taps to heavy hits. Maybe not quite as good as a mesh head, but very useable. I have two bt1s and use the full stereo connection for both. Needless to say cross talk has never been an issue.


      Roland TD-30KV, Pearl Demon Drive Double Pedal, Pearl H1000 hit hat stand, Shure SE530 IEMs, AKG K171 MKII Headphones, Mackie DLM PA, Yamaha MG102C mixer, Roland Studio Capture

      Natal Walnut kit (US Fusion X), Bosphorus Antique 16" Crash & 22" Ride, Bosphorus Gold Series 14" hats.

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      • #4
        Thanks (everyone) for the feedback. Bought two BT-1 units today. I'll post a review once I've experimented more with them. In the shop, I tested one and was surprised at how great it felt. There's plenty of triggering sensitivity, too. The rubber surface is quite springy and gives lots of rebound for fast sticking patterns. Thus far, I'm really impressed. This is a hidden gem in Roland's trigger lineup. I'm mounting these on the same posts as each of my ride cymbals (respectively) so as to provide three way triggering for all ride cymbals. This solves two problems. First, by default, the bells of Roland's ride cymbals have very little sensitivity (one must whack them really hard to get them to trigger and even then the bells don't trigger reliably.) Second, the TD-30 only provides three way triggering for a single ride cymbal. I want three way triggering for both of my rides, one on each side of the kit. The BT-1 sits compactly just above the ride cymbal. It only requires slightly more movement to play bow to bell patterns to the BT-1 than to the cymbal's semi-functioning or non-functioning bell. Voila! Problem solved.

        Originally, I intended to build my own bell triggers using real cymbal bells and piezos. The BT-1 triggers are certainly more expensive than my DIY solution would have been, but they provide great cross talk isolation and, more importantly, they are super quiet and feel great. The metal bells would have made a clanking sound when I hit them, even with foam and/or rubber under them to isolate them from the rest of the cymbal. In the long run, I could certainly have made a DIY solution work, but the BT-1 is such a sleek, simple, and instant solution that it seemed the path of least resistance. As noted, I'll post a review once I've got everything set up and well tested.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TangTheHump View Post
          Thanks (everyone) for the feedback. Bought two BT-1 units today. I'll post a review once I've experimented more with them. In the shop, I tested one and was surprised at how great it felt. There's plenty of triggering sensitivity, too. The rubber surface is quite springy and gives lots of rebound for fast sticking patterns. Thus far, I'm really impressed. This is a hidden gem in Roland's trigger lineup. I'm mounting these on the same posts as each of my ride cymbals (respectively) so as to provide three way triggering for all ride cymbals. This solves two problems. First, by default, the bells of Roland's ride cymbals have very little sensitivity (one must whack them really hard to get them to trigger and even then the bells don't trigger reliably.) Second, the TD-30 only provides three way triggering for a single ride cymbal. I want three way triggering for both of my rides, one on each side of the kit. The BT-1 sits compactly just above the ride cymbal. It only requires slightly more movement to play bow to bell patterns to the BT-1 than to the cymbal's semi-functioning or non-functioning bell. Voila! Problem solved.

          Originally, I intended to build my own bell triggers using real cymbal bells and piezos. The BT-1 triggers are certainly more expensive than my DIY solution would have been, but they provide great cross talk isolation and, more importantly, they are super quiet and feel great. The metal bells would have made a clanking sound when I hit them, even with foam and/or rubber under them to isolate them from the rest of the cymbal. In the long run, I could certainly have made a DIY solution work, but the BT-1 is such a sleek, simple, and instant solution that it seemed the path of least resistance. As noted, I'll post a review once I've got everything set up and well tested.

          Can you also post a picture of your mounting solution?
          "It makes sense if you dont think about it"

          Mimic Pro, SPD-SX, 2-QSC K-10s, K-sub, Yamaha mixer, and a bunch of other expensive cool things!

          Comment


          • #6
            Intruder,

            You asked for pictures? Sure. Take a look at the detailed review I posted. Pictures within.

            Roland BT-1 Review and Three-Zone Ride Solution
            http://www.vdrums.com/forum/general/...-ride-solution

            Comment


            • #7
              Thought i'd use this old thread to ask a question.

              Can anyone who has the BT-1 trigger and a PDX-100 pad post a picture of what it's like when mounted to one of the lugs please? All the photos I could find only show it mounted to a 12" pad).

              I'm thinking of getting one to have a more consistent way of playing cross-stick and also to get around the limitation of the TD-25 module, but I'm not sure how it will be when attached to a smaller pad.

              Thanks in advance.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by angr77 View Post
                Hi!

                I am using two BT-1's mounted on my snare...(However - I am using MegaDRUM as TMI)

                The BT-1 consist of one piezo and a switch. I have configured them so it is the switch which is triggering when hitting the on the BT-1 surface. The piezo is used to determine the xcross talk from the snare or the other BT-1. I would argument that sensivity is like when hitting a cymbal switch or a edge trigger on a VH-11 hi-hat. I would say it is actually quite sensitive but not as tapping a mesh head with very light hits.

                It is using one stereo input to be able to utilze the crosstalk elimination. From a cross talk standpoint - I can just say - there is no chance in h... to make it trigger by accident...my best recommendations!

                Best Regards

                ANGR77



                angr77 I recently installed a pair of BT1 to my acoustic snare like you did but my TMI is a Alesis Trigger IO. I am having a hard time to play them, since almost every time I play the snare one of the BT1s get triggered. Now that I read all the information on thes post (reaaaaally great info btw) I realized I've been configuring the "Trigger Type" as Piezo-Piezo (PP). I will change it to PS or SP (Piezo-Switch or Switch-Piezo) and see what happends. I will keep you posted but in the meantime (my set is not in my house) do you have any experience with the Alesis TMI?

                Thanks for your help!!!

                Tack

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi!

                  Sorry I have no experience of Alesis TMI. My implementation above is built on a very special trigger function found in MegaDrum where the BT-1 can be completely trigger separated from a attached Snare. The BT-1 is of the type piezo/switch trigger...so it sounds like a good idea to try these settings first in your module.

                  Best regards

                  Angr77 / www.zourman.com
                  Pearl CrystalBeat and Sonor Safari, Roland CY-14/13R/15R/12CR,RT-10/30,BT-1,VH-11/12/13 & KD-10, Dingbat,Triggera D14, D11, ATV AD-h14, PCY-155, 120MHz MD with PS board, 2box 3/5/5MKII, dd4SE, Yamaha DTX502, Addictive Drums 2.1.19. All ADpaks, Microsoft Surface PRO, Macbook, Pearl Throne Thumper, Zourman HH & Ride Conv Kit www.zourman.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by angr77 View Post
                    Hi!

                    Sorry I have no experience of Alesis TMI. My implementation above is built on a very special trigger function found in MegaDrum where the BT-1 can be completely trigger separated from a attached Snare. The BT-1 is of the type piezo/switch trigger...so it sounds like a good idea to try these settings first in your module.

                    Best regards

                    Angr77 / www.zourman.com
                    Well, I tried the PS setting (Piezo in the TIP of the TRS and Switch in the RING) with no luck at all.I tried this on the inputs 7 and 8. I will repeat this with inputs 2 and 4 since I read in other forums that those are capable of managing PS triggers. The manual says that all inputs should manage PS, but it seems like not.

                    I decided to go a little bit further and tryied to see what is sending the BT-1 on each TIP & RING. I've installed a Soundcard Oscilloscope https://www.zeitnitz.eu/scope_en and see what was happening.

                    Amazing app! and here are the results:

                    When I hit the trigger (medium hit):

                    ScreenHunter_1461 Oct. 27 09.43.jpg

                    Red Signal is the RING (the switch) and it seems that is like a pulse that says, the piezo is valid. The green signal is the TIP and is the Piezo info.
                    Then I hit the side of the BT-1 and the signal looked like this:

                    ScreenHunter_1462 Oct. 27 09.44.jpg

                    You can see that there is no RED signal at all but the Piezo detected the ligth HIT.
                    So my conclusion so far, is that the BT-1 is working and that the wiring is not like the ones I found surfing...

                    ScreenHunter_1464 Oct. 27 17.52.jpg

                    It seems that is slightly different since it would be a TRS (the righthand side option) but instead of sending a "copy" of the Piezo info, is sending a pulse.
                    I will try to adjust the Alesis to manage that but maybe it is not compatible with tha PS type of trigger...

                    The way I imagine the BT-1 is something like this:

                    ScreenHunter_1465 Oct. 27 17.55.jpg

                    Where there is a RC plus a Zener Diode that makes the Piezo info into a more Pulse like signal...

                    Will now try other inputs and if not, try to do some wiring to manage what I've found.

                    Any comments suggestions?

                    THANKS!!!!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Jgraue,

                      The way you envision the BT-1 is exactly how I saw it in my head. Except, possibly the signal on the switch side is cleaned up by hardware inside the module instead of being in the BT-1. I don't know why Roland doesn't do this cleanup inside the pad, but I've never seen this when taking apart other Roland pads. The PCBs are typically jack mounting boards and not much else.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jgraue View Post

                        You can see that there is no RED signal at all but the Piezo detected the ligth HIT.
                        So my conclusion so far, is that the BT-1 is working and that the wiring is not like the ones I found surfing...

                        ScreenHunter_1464 Oct. 27 17.52.jpg

                        It seems that is slightly different since it would be a TRS (the righthand side option) but instead of sending a "copy" of the Piezo info, is sending a pulse.
                        I will try to adjust the Alesis to manage that but maybe it is not compatible with tha PS type of trigger...
                        Hi jgraue,

                        Those images happen to be the ones I came up with. Those two images are for two different things as it puritans to Alesis drum modules. The HF-1 is a circuit that works on Alesis modules the same way the BT-1 works on Roland modules. The second image is used to make a switch zone (on an Alesis module) have velocity. Both images are meant to be used in a piezo set-up and only work on Alesis modules.

                        If you are wanting a device on your Trigger I/O that works like a Roland BT-1 trigger, you will need to make it based on the HF-1 diagram and it should work on any input of the Trigger I/O.

                        I hope that helps.
                        Last edited by Hellfire; 03-29-18, 03:36 PM.
                        alesisDRUMMER.com

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                        • #13
                          Does anyone know if the BT-1 works with Yamaha modules? I have the DTX-502. Would like a trigger bar, rather than another pad.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            for the price of BT-1 you can buy 2 of this, it should work
                            https://www.guitarcenter.com/Pintech...RWXGP&gclid=EA IaIQobChMIv4DL9rrs2gIV3UwNCh05pA2SEAQYASABEgL9cfD_ BwE&kwid=productads-adid^57619015002-device^c-plaid^143131385082-sku^[email protected]^PLA
                            Last edited by tivi; 05-04-18, 12:21 PM.

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                            • #15
                              or you can build your own trigger bar http://edrum.for.free.fr/static/pict...ipetrigger.gif

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