TD-30KV - Which 'drum kits' are 'supernatural' enabled?

[Elphaba]

Hi

I've searched the forums for this and couldn't find a definitive list / post, but sorry if I've missed it.

I see a lot of people complaining that only a select few of the drum kits support the cool new supernatural sound features and enable you to get the best from the TD-30KV. As someone with a TD-20K Exp and seriously thinking about upgrading, I'd love to know just how many of these new kits are supernatural enabled.

TBH I only regularly play about 3 - 5 kits on my TD-20... got them tweaked how I like them and between them, there is always a kit that sounds close enough to a song I'm playing with. So if it's a similar number (and includes the Nashville kit) on the TD-30KV then it wouldn't be too much of a heart-break.

But like everything - more would be better!

Thanks for any help.

[KennyinDundee]

I don't own a TD30 nor have I played on one but am I right in assuming that all kits on the TD30 would be 'supernatural enabled' as you call it because it's all to do with module settings/capabilities/parameters etc? I would also suggest that all the Vex packs offered by Vexpressions also are 'supernatural enabled'.

[jimorlando]

I think the TD30 and TD15 both have the supernatural capability.

[tkdrum]

and TD-11, all the new TD models have Supernatural, not exactly sure what it does though

[jpsquared482]

I think the question is whether all of the kits on the TD-30 have SuperNatural capability, not which Roland modules have it.

I don't know the answer to this question definitively, but I believe some are not, particularly the electronic sounds and percussion sounds.

[flurbs]

As far as I'm aware 'Supernatural' is simply the new name for the updated version of 'COSM' - IE: It's what they call the synthesis engine.

[Intruder]

As far as I'm aware 'Supernatural' is simply the new name for the updated version of 'COSM' - IE: It's what they call the synthesis engine.

Yes, that would be the most correct statement so far I think.

I also think the op has heard something about updated sounds on the TD30. It's true the module has most if not all of the sounds from the TD20 plus some new ones.
The sounds are divided into lists a,b,c with a being the new ones. The number of a sounds range from maybe 10 - 20 depending on which drum or cymbal sound you are looking at. The new a sounds if mixed all up with the b and c sounds would make the number of "new" sounds in the millions (not a math person).
Take the new sounds and apply the new sound shaping put it together and you have a fine sounding $2000 module YMMV (just ask Tang The Hump) LOL.

[OneWatt]

...The sounds are divided into lists a,b,c with a being the new ones. ...

Intruder's reply covers it well. I would add that the "Group A" instruments being new (TD30 vs TD20) can be confirmed by downloading the instrument set listing from Roland's website for both modules and doing a side-by-side comparison to get an accurate count and comparison.

If you're considering the trade up decision, perhaps some comments below will help...

Do the Group A instruments really sound all that super-natural? Well, ok they do, but not much different than the Group B instruments IMHO.

What's more, certain instrument edit features are NOT available on these new A Group snares. My suspicion is because they didn't create a variety of different tones (e.g., with and without snares) so you can't access what's not included in the sound set parameters (strictly speaking, they're not samples).

Having said this, like you, I tend to work with a handful of kits for the most part - and once well-tweaked, these become my choices 90% of the time. As a very pleased (previous) owner of an expanded TD-20, I also struggled with whether to spend the cash going from a TD-20 to a TD-30. So FWIW here's my personal take on the matter:

[Spoiler alert: I'm a VERY happy TD-30 owner]

- The new Group A instrument sounds are pretty good. How good? Well, would I have been willing to pay for just these improved sounds for the price difference required to trade up? Heck no. Again, they're very good - but not super-amazing-must-have-or-else-sounding sound improvements.

- But to be clear: this is more of a positive comment about the TD-20 instrument sound qualities - which as you know are already outstanding. So we're talking here just about the difference between outstanding and even better-than-outstanding. That "delta" between the two module instrument sound qualities just isn't that remarkable, IMHO. In fact, some of my favorite kits on the TD-30 include some TD-20 instrument elements. Buy hey, in my view, that's a good thing ... because with the TD-30 you get a complete TD-20X INCLUDED - it's all there. So isn't it great that all of those TD-20 legacy instrument sounds are there and still great sounding as always? I think so.

- Notwithstanding the small difference made by the additional Group A instruments, the various other differences still make me EXTREMELY happy I traded up. These differences are well-documented elsewhere but for me the primary ones are (in no particular order): control slider for ambience, USB connectivity to my desktop DAW, ability to insert USB memory/flash sticks for unlimited use of WAV/MP3 content; various interface enhancements (display screen, trigger velocity LEDs). I know these don't sound like much, but for me they've made the overall experience of playing the module fresh and improved in a way that makes me want to play even more than before. I'm loving this module.

In short, I have no regrets for having traded up - although selling one unit to buy the other cost me several hundred US$ - but for me it was money well spent given how much more time and enjoyment I get from playing the module. Granted, some of this might be the "new toy" effect, but I suspect it's more lasting than just that.

So to recap, I don't think the new sounds (super-duper-natural, whatever) are all THAT amazingly different to my ears. No game-changer here, Roland. And especially if you put these drum sounds in ANY kind of mix with other instruments (even acoustic jazz or unplugged music style), any such miniscule differences in sound quality - if in fact there are any at all - are certain to get lost in the soup. So really, how often (other than practice in headphones) will you really hear any distinction between the Group A TD-30 sounds and the TD-20X? For me, rarely if ever.

But again, to me this trade-up was not a disappointment. The overall experience of using the TD-30 is superb - and as a practice tool where the difference in user experience and interface matter most - I couldn't be happier with the cumulative benefit of these other enhancements.

YMMV of course. - OneWatt

[Intruder]

Very well put and fair OneWatt. I could not agree more!
Even VEX did not use all "A" sounds for their packs.

[jammin777]

the biggest super natural difference that really make it a worth while trade up are the hi hats when paired with the vh13 hats. much better and natural open close responds. my favorite snare is still the 50's king snare borrowed from the td20 tuned up of course. i really wish they made that snare super natural.

[Elphaba]

Thanks to everyone who's posted, but my question remains unanswered.

I'm not asking about 'kits' . i.e Products etc TD30 / TD15 etc.

I'm talking about the drum 'kits' pre-configured / created inside the module.

From what I've read on this site and others, there are only a small range of 'instruments' i.e. a particular snare type, a certain cymbal, etc. within the module that fully support the new trigger systems and perform to the specified 'SUPERNATURAL' style.

I've just played my first TD30 KV in a store but I think it was set up very poorly - hotspots in the centre of the snare, and I couldn't audibly tell any 'magical' difference between it and my TD20K with the Expansion module.

I certainly didn't detect better more realistic i.e. 'SUPERNATURAL' performance on the snare, hi-hat, toms or cymbals and I worked thru the 'KITS' from 1 to 10.

I know that 'SUPERNATURAL' is the replacement for COSM, but the point of the tech is that it isn't playing the same sound and it modifies it 'live' depending on playing factors.

Therefore all the online demo videos showing how two snare hits never sound exactly the same, and increasing the speed affects tone etc I didn't witness.

But to recap - I've read that only a select few 'INSTRUMENTS / KITS' inside the TD-30KV module support the enhanced playing / sound modelling of 'SUPERNATURAL' . The rest just sound and play like the TD-20KX

So my question again is - which ones are they? Which 'kits' and which 'instruments'?

Does that clear up the question?

[OneWatt]

Thanks to everyone who's posted, but my question remains unanswered...[snip]...
So my question again is - which ones are they? Which 'kits' and which 'instruments'?

Does that clear up the question?

To be clear, the "SUPERNATURAL" instruments are those in the "A Group" - you can check out the specifics by reading the data lists available online.

Also, to be clear, as a (prior) owner of an expanded TD-20 and (current) owner of a TD-30 module (which includes a complete TD-20X inside), I honestly cannot tell the difference in quality between the Group A instruments and the Group B instruments. They both sound fantastic ... whatever makes SuperNatural extra deluxe "super" beyond the TD-20X sounds remains a mystery to me.

[Tommy_D]

Here is a link to the TD-30 instrument list:

http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/TD-30_PA.pdf

As mentioned in several posts above, all the instruments in the A banks (Kick A, Snare A, Tom A, etc.) are new and "SuperNatural." These instruments are mostly used in the first 10-20 kits. From there they are sporadically mixed in with kits that use other instruments from other banks (Bank B, C and D).

As someone who owns a TD-30 and a 2Box module, has previously owned dual TD-30's, TDW-20 expanded, TD-20, and TD-9 modules, I can say my favorite of everything I have owned is my TD-30 module. Yes, I think its better than the 2Box. The TD-30 is much better than the TD-20X (TDW-20) module because it not only has better base sounds to work with, but it's means of tweaking and modeling the sounds is better than its predecessors. It also has better ambiance control, which plays a huge part in the overall sound of the kits. In general it is a good upgrade to a TD-20X module.

[fulrmr(Daniel)]

As someone who owns a TD-30 and a 2Box module, has previously owned dual TD-30's, TDW-20 expanded, TD-20, and TD-9 modules, I can say my favorite of everything I have owned is my TD-30 module. Yes, I think its better than the 2Box. The TD-30 is much better than the TD-20X (TDW-20) module because it not only has better base sounds to work with, but it's means of tweaking and modeling the sounds is better than its predecessors. It also has better ambiance control, which plays a huge part in the overall sound of the kits. In general it is a good upgrade to a TD-20X module.

After owning all of these too(except the TD-9)I'm just the opposite as I prefer the 2Box. But I do agree with the tweaking/modeling/ambiance comment over the TDW/X versions. As a whole...it is a good upgrade to it's previous Flagship....but it could have been so much more.