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TD12 (VH11) in S2 - more trouble

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  • TD12 (VH11) in S2 - more trouble

    Sorry - originally posted in the wrong place.

    Right. I have the new TD12 with VH11. I'm not sure about the hi-hat setting on the Roland brain, but in S2 it's far worse even than my old TD6.

    Main problem is the hi-hat. Even in Joe's kit the hi-hat does not function at all. Basically, it's open all the time. Also I tried remapping the hats according to Joe's instructions, but the equipment will not accept the new information - it won't accept the closed pedal info.

    I'll keep trying, but basically I have nowhere to go from here. Anyone in London?

    [email protected]

  • #2
    That meant, 'can anyone help' by the way!

    Gonna call Roland tomorrow to see if there's anything I'm doing wrong in the brain setting (midi HH note, Local Control etc) plus any tricks I'm missing in setting up the VH11, but still no joy in S2.

    Is there seriously no-one out there in London who has this kit with this VST set up so that it works?

    Please, pleeeease drop me a line if you are running them and getting good results.

    surfcake (at)


    • #3
      You also started another other thread stating that you can't even get the VH-11 to work on your TD-12 -- VH-11=awful. Help!

      You haven't responded to most of the questions and advice that was given to you by others in that other thread, so we don't know what you tried and we don't know what results you got from any of those things. In fact, we don't even know if you got it to work, or not. If you really want help, can you help us to help you by at least responding to the other thread before abandoning it and starting a new one.

      Since you say that you are going to call Roland, I am going to assume that you still can't get it to work with just your TD-12. Is this correct?

      If it doesn't work on your TD-12, then it probably isn't going to work in S2. You need to solve the basic VH-11 interface issue, first.

      So, can you please post your trigger settings for your Hi-hat so that we don't have to guess what settings you have. Also, are you sure that you aren't stepping on the hi-hat pedal when you turn your TD-12 on? The TD-12 needs to see the hi-hat fully open when it powers up. So, stepping on the pedal or opening the clutch to let the hat close will confuse your TD-12.



      • #4
        I think I might know what your problem is--I ran into this same problem setting up the mapping on my new Midi Rocker (an adapter for playing Rock Band using v-drums) this afternoon. I had mapped the open and closed sounds to two different colours in the game, and yet when I tried, all I could get was the open colour, even with the hi hat fully closed.

        When I listened with my headphones plugged into the TD-12 module, I could clearly hear the different sounds for open and closed. I checked the MIDI config for the HH, and there were indeed the expected 5 different midi notes configured (46 = bow open, 42 = bow closed, 26 = edge open, 22 = edge closed, 44 = pedal). Yet when I enabled note logging on the midi rocker unit, I could clearly see it was always receiving only either 46 or 26 (the open notes), regardless of whether the hat was open or closed or anywhere in-between.

        I did some digging around in the manual and found a note about a setting described on page 74.

        HH Note# Border
        (Hi-Hat Note Number Border)

        The only time you would need to change this setting is
        when you are triggering an external sound module.

        The note number transmitted when you strike the hi-hat will
        change depending on the amount of pressure on the hi-hat
        pedal. HH Note# Border allows you to adjust the pedal
        position at which the note number switches from the open hihat
        to the closed hi-hat.

        As you monitor the note number transmitted by the TD-12
        and the Control Change message value, adjust the setting until
        the note number is switched at the pedal position you want.
        When using a VH-11 for the hi-hat, setting this value to
        around 80 allows you to transmit the closed hi-hat note
        number when the pedal is slightly above the fully depressed
        When I checked mine, my setting was at 127, the max. I lowered it to the suggested 80, and bingo, I was getting open and closed midi notes coming through properly!

        Here's how you change it:

        1. Press [SETUP].
        [SETUP] lights, and the “SETUP” screen appears.

        2. Press [F1 (MIDI)] - [F3 (CTRL)].
        The “MIDI CONTROL” screen appears.

        3. Press [CURSOR (up/down)] to select the
        (in this case, "HH Note# Border ")

        4. Use [+/-] or [VALUE] to make settings.
        Hopefully that helps...?
        Roland: TD12, KD85, PD105, PD85 x3, CY15R, CY14C, CY12R/C x2, CY5, VH11
        DW: 5002-TD3 Kick Pedals, 9120AL throne + backrest
        Yamaha: HS1100 HH Stand
        Audio Technica: ATH-M40fs Cans
        Jeroen: Custom Electric Cowbell
        Kentley: Custom Piezo Trigger Splitter x2
        ByteArts: VEX TD-20 Kits: Top 50 1&2, Gigging Kits, Exotics 1, Professor's Pack
        Vdrumlib: Drum Librarian


        • #5
          Okay, just back from the other version of this thread mentioned by Silicon Drummer, and also from the dealer that sold me the kit. As far as I can tell, there are no differences between my kit and the demo TD12 in the store, so it's all good news on that front. And, no, I haven't got the cymbals on upside down! Not this time. As I said over there, I'm VERY sorry about not getting back more speedily.

          I've also made the midi note adjustment very kindly suggested by Mutnat. I'm assuming we would all need to do this to use S2 or BFD2. My hat settings at the moment are

          HH type VH11FD
          Foot splash sens +10
          CC Max 90
          CC Res normal
          The icon in the 'level' lines up precisely with the two arrows when my foot is down on the pedal (Iron Cobra Leverglide).

          So, I've just this minute opened up a song in my ancient Logic 5 (PC job handed down to me by my brother) and ... no change. The hats are extremely messy and distorted, along with the other cymbals much louder than the drums, which are muted and weak. I have no clue why, as my old TD6 triggered everything very well (apart from the pad-style hihats, which were messy and half-open all the time, though not distorted).

          With my TD6, I was concerned only with improving the hat sound. Now, with the 12, I have sonic issues around the kit alongside the poor hat sound!

          Points that may be relevant:

          (a) the DAW is not tested in S2 and may not support it.
          (b) I now have plenty of RAM, 3.24 gig plus whatever XP lets us use up to 4.
          (c) I have a call in to the VST savvy chaps at Roland tomorrow, who may know whether or not my kit/ midi settings are sorted, and whether I've got a DAW problem.

          One thing I've mentioned before which puzzles me is that the fix JoeK gives in these threads does not work in my S2 - why might that be? More worryingly, his S20 file kit, already fixed, is just as bad as I describe above.

          Many thanks for all your input.
          Last edited by progsmacker; 01-19-09, 12:31 PM.


          • #6

            You are using a DAW that can record MIDI, correct? Why don't you try recording a short HiHat performance using all the zones and articulations, then save the MIDI, Zip it and upload it here. I can have a look at what your module is exactly sending and perhaps that will provide a clue as to the problem.

            If you are having trouble closing the HiHat and getting responsiveness from the either the TD-12 or S2.0, I would suspect a hardware configuration problem, but I cannot say for sure. (and excuse me for not having read all of your posts in other threads up until this point).

            | Argos | Your Cloud | Lost In Germany | Life Wasted | Identity Crisis
            | The Xerophyte | Red Barchetta | Subdivisions or Drums Only |

            Superior Drummer w/ Metal Foundry, dfhS samples and Platinum Samples Evil Drums.


            • #7
              Okay Joe.

              The hi-hat is correctly set up in Roland Brainsville according to the shop techie. So it's just S2 in which I'm having the problems. I've just watched your kit demo, and I think we can safely say my TD12 in S2 does not sound like that!

              Please note that in EZDrummer my TD6 was triggering the drums well, but the hihats were again indistinct and messy through all articulations. In DFH same story, in S2 same story. With TD12 (not TD6) in S2 the hihats are a mess as with the other kits, but the drums too are not triggering properly (or at least not as well as they were in TD6/S2).

              Did you want something recorded in S2?


              • #8
                Originally posted by progsmacker View Post
                Did you want something recorded in S2?
                The MIDI data is neutral .. I don't necessarily need to see it recorded "in" S2. Hit record for a MIDI track in your DAW and export the MIDI track when done. No sounds.

                However, if you also want to attach a clip of how it sounds when rendered using S2 on your system, that may be some help.

                | Argos | Your Cloud | Lost In Germany | Life Wasted | Identity Crisis
                | The Xerophyte | Red Barchetta | Subdivisions or Drums Only |

                Superior Drummer w/ Metal Foundry, dfhS samples and Platinum Samples Evil Drums.


                • #9
                  Having torn my hair out some more, I think the triggering IS doing what it's being told. Could the pads be set up incorrectly?

                  Testing with the mouse vs the pads in Joe's kit, the max volumes are in fact pretty much the same - but only when I catch the pad just right, which is more luck than judgement (and it shouldn't be for someone who's been drumming as long as I have!). It seems as if all the 20-126 stuff is pretty much absent and the 127 is hard to trigger, so if the midi being sent from the TD12 is correct according to the pad settings, these in turn must be wrong.

                  The following midi is being sent in some form or other: snare and rim trigger, each tom and its rim trigger, the two crashes (which both choke on the edge trigger), the bell and bow of the ride but NOT the edge (which shows in the GUI as an unmatched key), the kick, and the mess which would be a hi-hat if the articulations were being triggered properly. the hat *may* be distorting slightly.

                  Does this ring a bell (so to speak) with anyone?
                  Last edited by progsmacker; 01-21-09, 08:19 AM.


                  • #10
                    Hold the bus.

                    When I changed the kit over to

                    (a) pop & rock in ezdrummer (not in S2) and

                    (b) pop & rock from ezd in S2

                    I had a much better response from all the drums including the hihat (which amazingly opened and closed as instructed). The toms may have been a bit on the quiet side. One of the tom rims was mapped as a choked crash.

                    So why is it just the Avatar kit that's such a mess?


                    • #11
                      Have you tried launching S2.0 within Toontrack SOLO, and then, with the default Avatar kit loaded, go to the main menu (of SOLO) and choose MIDI -> Controller - Edrums.

                      This won't do anything for running S2.0 within a DAW, but it will show you if the MIDI is lined up as expected. The Edrum setting in SOLO institutes a MIDI filter that pairs with many edrums in use, and with it running, you should have most basic function, including the HiHat.

                      At least that will tell you if the data coming from the module is in line. But ... as I said before, if you simply post some recorded MIDI data from a HiHat performance, I can look at everything there and tell you what is what coming from the module.

                      | Argos | Your Cloud | Lost In Germany | Life Wasted | Identity Crisis
                      | The Xerophyte | Red Barchetta | Subdivisions or Drums Only |

                      Superior Drummer w/ Metal Foundry, dfhS samples and Platinum Samples Evil Drums.