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Superior/BFD/Expansion Card - 1, 2, 3... GO!

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  • Superior/BFD/Expansion Card - 1, 2, 3... GO!

    Alright not sure if this is a good spot for it or not but oh well. I'm going to be recording an E.P. for my main tech/progressive metal band and a demo for my pop/rock/synth'y other band in the next few months. I'm not sure my best route to go as far as everything.

    I've got Superior 2 and admititly havn't really used it all that much, only messing around here and there til' I acutally get all my drums tracked and then go from there.

    I record everything MIDI while just listening through my sounds on the TD-20 through the PA. Then I'll go back in and either use the TD-20 sounds or Superior or BFD or whatever. So basically the entire point of that was saying I don't play through Superior or BFD when I record, just only as a playback.

    I've also recently heard of Drumagog and heard nothing but amazing reviews of that but the interface looks a little "Windows 3.1" if you will and I'm still not 100% sure of what exactly it does. I know it's a drum replacement tool but can I use it with MIDI, and if everything is as good as I hear it being used on huge major bands and with big dog producers why don't I hear more about it in the VST board on here? Is anyone using it and can explain a little better?

    I don't need ULTRA realistic drums per say for my Ashes Of Atrocity (prog metal) band as theres crazy guitars and stuff behind it and I'm doing a lot of technical stuff, off time beats, and double bass/blast stuff. So everything kind of has to stay consistant. There are certain parts, especially with the newer songs were doing where we have some slower stuff where I'm doing a lot of different articulations on the snare and ghost notes and such between the hats and snare and ride.

    I do not have the Expansion Card yet, but I'm recording a band next weekend for a quick demo for 200-300 bucks and recording a drum track for my neighbors guitar project thing for 120 this week so that money could definitley buy the card. If I did the TD20 route, I'd just go through and make "X" amount of MIDI tracks with just the snare on 1, just kick on another, tom 1, tom 2, tom 3, tom 4, splash 1, splash 2, china, ride, crash 1, crash 2, hats and then just run my left master out as a MONO in from each track at max volume and do all the volume and panning in Sonar.

    I would also be able to do a lot more post processing on individual cymbals and toms and such for a more boomier or higher/brighter feel depending on the one which I feel would lead to a more acoustic feel anyways and better blend in sound. Would this be a good way to do that vs. just spending a bunch of $$$ on cables and using the direct outs? I know hitting "record" and playing the MIDI back 16 times is time consuming but I'm at home in my project studio so time isn't an issue, lol.

    Or if I recorded with Superior/BFD I'd just bounce the tracks to the 24 bit and import the WAV's into Sonar and then do post processing there per track, etc. Same with BFD (although I havn't used it yet so still not sure whether to snag it up or not).

    Just looking at all my options and which one you guys would suggest, I havn't had the chance to really hear any of the Expansion Card stuff yet I read people realllly liking it. I would prefer not to mix Superior sounds with the TD20 sounds as that'd just be even more confusing and I don't think it'd blend all that well together, IMO.

    Does anybody have a full mix done with either Superior/BFD/TDW-20 then can share? And if someone could A/B a mix of the exact song but one with the expansion card and one with superior or something else that'd be awesome then I could really sit and listen to differences.

    Examples of my band music (older stuff, our new stuf is way more technical, yet melodic) is at www.myspace.com/ashesofatrocity

    I spent a good amount of time getting my drums down realllly good on those, and we spent a lot of time on the guitar, but did a real quick just mix of volume and panning automation, no effects, and all my drums are just done from I think "Studio 1" of the VEX packs with a few other things tweaked just ran straight as a stereo track from the TD20 and they're all dead center I didn't pan any of anything either way, lol. But everyone kept asking if that was my acoustic kit in the recordings and when I said "No" they were real surprized.

    Sorry for such a huge post, I tend to ramble and never stop typing, g-damn fast fingers! But I really appreciate any and all help. Thanks!

    .Adam.
    Check out my NEW eBay Store: V-Drum Emporium!

  • #2
    Originally posted by AdamCooney View Post
    I record everything MIDI while just listening through my sounds on the TD-20 through the PA. Then I'll go back in and either use the TD-20 sounds or Superior or BFD or whatever. So basically the entire point of that was saying I don't play through Superior or BFD when I record, just only as a playback..
    You are not alone with this method. Just make sure that your HHs are working correctly before you get to far into it. You don't want to have to chase the MIDI CC information after the fact in order to get them working.


    Originally posted by AdamCooney View Post
    I've also recently heard of Drumagog and heard nothing but amazing reviews of that but the interface looks a little "Windows 3.1" if you will and I'm still not 100% sure of what exactly it does. I know it's a drum replacement tool but can I use it with MIDI, and if everything is as good as I hear it being used on huge major bands and with big dog producers why don't I hear more about it in the VST board on here? Is anyone using it and can explain a little better?.
    Drumagog is a replacement tool which is not going to show up here as much as say Gearslutz.com. It is a great tool and BFD2 has a direct working relationship with BFD2. If you own a studio, it is worth checking out the combination of Drumagog and BFD2. It is a great way to reinforce/replace drum parts. You can trigger it via MIDI and Audio.

    Here is a video of Drumagog being used to replace the sound of kitchen pots and pans live. - www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQVJ5v6CnrE


    Originally posted by AdamCooney View Post
    I don't need ULTRA realistic drums per say for my Ashes Of Atrocity (prog metal) band as theres crazy guitars and stuff behind it and I'm doing a lot of technical stuff, off time beats, and double bass/blast stuff. So everything kind of has to stay consistant. There are certain parts, especially with the newer songs were doing where we have some slower stuff where I'm doing a lot of different articulations on the snare and ghost notes and such between the hats and snare and ride..
    You should always go for the best quality that you can. Software will help you out a great deal. You already have the drum module. Adding software is the next step. This is the way that major records are made, so why not do it for your recordings.


    Originally posted by AdamCooney View Post
    I do not have the Expansion Card yet, but I'm recording a band next weekend for a quick demo for 200-300 bucks and recording a drum track for my neighbors guitar project thing for 120 this week so that money could definitley buy the card. If I did the TD20 route, I'd just go through and make "X" amount of MIDI tracks with just the snare on 1, just kick on another, tom 1, tom 2, tom 3, tom 4, splash 1, splash 2, china, ride, crash 1, crash 2, hats and then just run my left master out as a MONO in from each track at max volume and do all the volume and panning in Sonar..
    Save your money and buy Superior of BFD2. You have already made a made an investment with Sonar. You will get much higher quality results from VST software than the sound module.



    Originally posted by AdamCooney View Post
    I would also be able to do a lot more post processing on individual cymbals and toms and such for a more boomier or higher/brighter feel depending on the one which I feel would lead to a more acoustic feel anyways and better blend in sound. Would this be a good way to do that vs. just spending a bunch of $$$ on cables and using the direct outs? I know hitting "record" and playing the MIDI back 16 times is time consuming but I'm at home in my project studio so time isn't an issue, lol..

    Or if I recorded with Superior/BFD I'd just bounce the tracks to the 24 bit and import the WAV's into Sonar and then do post processing there per track, etc. Same with BFD (although I havn't used it yet so still not sure whether to snag it up or not)..
    You have a few options. That is the key. You can bounce your audio and use the mixing/DSP in your host program. You can mix inside your choice of drum software. BFD2 gives you a full compliment of mixing and DSP. You also have mutliple routing options. You do not have to make "X" amount of MIDI tracks, as you put it and input one sound at a time.


    Originally posted by AdamCooney View Post
    Just looking at all my options and which one you guys would suggest, I havn't had the chance to really hear any of the Expansion Card stuff yet I read people realllly liking it. I would prefer not to mix Superior sounds with the TD20 sounds as that'd just be even more confusing and I don't think it'd blend all that well together, IMO..
    Superior will work fine for your needs. Considering that you mentioned drum replacement via Drumagog and triggering drum sounds, I suggest you look at BFD2. BFD2 is the only one that works directly with Drumagog. There is a huge list of expansion packs including those by Platinum Samples, Sonic Reality, and Steven Slate. Plus the 2.1 (free) upgrade includes a few high quality effects that are perfect for drum mixing, including Breverb and an Envelope Shaper.

    Either way, Superior or BFD2 will give you better results in the studio.

    Hope this helps,
    John

    Comment


    • #3
      Nice considerations John.... I love BFD2 for the variery of sounds .. and Steven Slate is already in the beta testing for their 2.5 upgrade which will be compatible with BFD2 ... I am here in the counting down ... 'cause I will be getting it the minute it is released:

      Check out the demos .. they sound "metal ready" .... :

      http://www.stevenslatedrums.com/

      Pim
      Roland TD50, Roland PM30 and KC 550 Studio Capture /Dell XPS I7 32GB RAM Reaper,Superior Drummer,BFD3 (all exp. packs),SSD5 Ezdrummer 2, XLN Addictive Drums

      Comment


      • #4
        And by the way John .. Squids from Sonic Reality .. way back there informed that the "Neil Peart pack" would be compatible with BFD ... any news on that?

        Pim
        Roland TD50, Roland PM30 and KC 550 Studio Capture /Dell XPS I7 32GB RAM Reaper,Superior Drummer,BFD3 (all exp. packs),SSD5 Ezdrummer 2, XLN Addictive Drums

        Comment


        • #5
          Sorry Pim, but that's a question for Dave.

          It is never wise to talk about what might be coming because you never know what is going to happen.

          I have a bunch of the new stuff already and I can say can say that the New Platinum Samples collection from Jim Scott sounds great, Steven Slate's drums are going to work well. In addition to my JEX, FXPansion has 8bit available for download. Sonica has the new Taiko drums and FXPansion has a very large amount of new drums from me getting ready for release. It should be a cool upcoming year.


          John

          Comment


          • #6
            It's been a while since Dave mentioned BFD2 content. I suspect Sonic Reality are focusing right now on their new Infinite Player, which is Kontakt-based. They've just released the Drum Masters series for that, but I don't know how edrum-friendly this player is, or if the same content is to be released for BFD2. He kept a running thread at KVR about all the drummers he was recording, and they've all appeared to show-up in the Drum Masters Platinum series. For you Peart fans, that's the one you'll need for his kit and retail is $995. I'm sure it's very cool, but you're paying for all those grooves as well, which are pretty useless to us - except for inspiration maybe. For that kinda money, I'd get Ocean Way Drums.

            Steve
            No more V-drums; all acoustics now.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thnak you for the reply John ....

              For me.. I am still hoping to get that Neil Peart kit .. without spending the 895 bucks ... from their website:
              quote
              While Sonic Reality as a sound company supports BFD2, Stylus RMX and DrumCore with sound packs that will be sold on the new download site http://www.downloadablesoundz.com to get the only flexible tempo multi-track audio loops combined with playable multi-track drum kits and midi grooves, the Studio ProFiles series and Infinite Player is currently the only way to get those features in a plug-in.
              unquote

              Pim
              Roland TD50, Roland PM30 and KC 550 Studio Capture /Dell XPS I7 32GB RAM Reaper,Superior Drummer,BFD3 (all exp. packs),SSD5 Ezdrummer 2, XLN Addictive Drums

              Comment


              • #8
                Jim Scott pack

                John,
                Could you tell us more about the Jim Scott pack? Is it contemorary type sounds or vintage? I just ordered BFD2,and had already planned on getting this pack.

                I like your download idea for current and future kits. How big was the room for the JEX kit? I like the drum choices and tuning,but I wasn't certain how much room sound was available for mixing.

                Thanks,Peter

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for the input, and not thanks to the numerous off topic postings in my thread, lol. I'd prefer to use processing inside Superior/BFD/etc. if I go software based, but havn't been able to hear any REALLY good sounding kits based on just the effects in the VST software. I've heard a real good one with Superior 2 but that was all multi'd out and had a lot of time mixing/mastering everything with the Waves plugin's.

                  I just wish there was 1 thing that could do it all that I wouldn't have to spent weeks learning. I've a drummer, and just to recording on the side kind of deal. Never read any books, just learned everything on my own and from reading some on the internet. I know nothing is plug and play completely but just want the best most reliable/useful thing I can get my hands on.
                  Check out my NEW eBay Store: V-Drum Emporium!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You could try using Superior and then add the td20 snare ,kick and toms along with it. Layering of sounds is very common.

                    Comment

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