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The Perfect Edrum VST?

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  • The Perfect Edrum VST?

    It doesn't exist yet - at least I don't think so. I'll start with the ones I have and just make stuff up about the rest:

    BFD2 Pros: the kicks and snares absolutely rock. Crashes, splashes and Chinas are stellar. Mappable. Powerful FX. Up to 32 kit pieces.
    Excellent mixing capabilities. Cons: some of the toms, rides and hats behave erratically and sound fake. MIDI LEARN and a few other functions just plain don't work for me. Most kits have only 3 toms, so if you want to add a 4th you have to retune one. Unless you know a fair amount about about EQ, Compression, Limiiting, Saturation and Reverb, it's best to leave the FX alone. Presets are few and iffy. I like but don't love it.

    ADDICTIVE DRUMS Pros: most kit pieces are superb - particularly the toms and cymbals. Tons of decent FX and presets. They're well-named too - you know from the name what the preset will sound like. All kits have four toms. Very configurable - great mixer. Fairly inexpensive - $250 or less. Cons: Snares and kicks sound good by themselves, but tend to get lost in a mix. They lose a little depth and presence when paired with other instruments. Hard-mapped, although it works well with a MIDI mapper. Limited kit pieces. Overall, my favorite so far.

    SUPERDRUMFX Pros: the only one out of the bunch specifically designed for edrummers. Completely mappable and easy-to-use. FREEWARE! What about 90% of you that are rushing out to buy S2 should learn to use first. Cons: only two velocity layers. Samples are too small to really sound that good, but I still think it sounds better than some stock TD kits. Limited kit pieces.

    The rest is hearsay, conjecture and possibly blasphemy:

    SUPERIOR 2 Can't say I've been that impressed with demos on the site or posted here. There's a sameness to the drums that doesn't sit well with me, mostly the toms. It would be nice to hear some wav demos to get a better impression. A pox on the guy who invented mp3's. Many of you appear to be lost without Joe (SP, Pim and a few others excepted). Seems to have limited content with the knowledge that you'll always buy more. The jury's still out for me.

    EZDrummer Don't know much about it, but it sounds pretty good, IMHO. The kit piece limit is a deal-killer for me. Seems like you get a lot for your money, but something also that you would soon outgrow.

    MIXOSAURUS Immensely impressed with the demos. Really in another league from the above products (as reflected by the price). Dev appears to want to perfect the product for edrummers. On the downside, it's just ONE kit! Seems like it would take an enormous amount of tweaking to get a decent variety of kit sounds. Semi-limited kit pieces, too. Great as the samples are, these limitations make it just too pricey and resource-intensive for my consideration - for now.

    OCEAN WAY DRUMS Still a work in progress, but appear to be headed in the right direction. To my ears, the samples are of the same super-high quality as MIXO, but you get 19 different and distinct kits and you can mix and match. Right now it's geared towards keyboard drummers and TD-20 users only; this supposedly will change with future releases. Also, in its present state it has limited kit pieces - ONE CRASH CYMBAL, FFS! Again, it appears they've seen the error of their ways and are adding features as they go. The jury's still out on this one, too.

    What say you all?

    Steve
    No more V-drums; all acoustics now.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Relayer View Post
    SUPERIOR 2 ... Many of you appear to be lost without Joe (SP, Pim and a few others excepted).
    I don't think that is fair. It is discussed a lot here lately because it is new and we have some very active members (myself included) who use it. Cruise the support forums of anything technical, Roland VDrums included, and you get a lot of questions asked for the convenience of a quick answer that would otherwise be answered with a bit more time and exploration on ones own.

    Anyway, my current bias not withstanding, I rate S2.0 as being quite easy to get started using (even from triggering from a kit) for how customizable and robust it is. But like anything technical and flexible, the devil is in the details.

    | Argos | Your Cloud | Lost In Germany | Life Wasted | Identity Crisis
    | The Xerophyte | Red Barchetta | Subdivisions or Drums Only |

    Superior Drummer w/ Metal Foundry, dfhS samples and Platinum Samples Evil Drums.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Joe_K View Post
      I don't think that is fair. It is discussed a lot here lately because it is new and we have some very active members (myself included) who use it. Cruise the support forums of anything technical, Roland VDrums included, and you get a lot of questions asked for the convenience of a quick answer that would otherwise be answered with a bit more time and exploration on ones own.

      Anyway, my current bias not withstanding, I rate S2.0 as being quite easy to get started using (even from triggering from a kit) for how customizable and robust it is. But like anything technical and flexible, the devil is in the details.
      Who said anything about being fair? Just making an observation. And I've no doubt that it's easier to use compared to BFD2, which is quite a handful. Being customizable and robust only helps a new user to a certain point. I'm just thinking that a lot of people are jumping into the deep end, and it's a good thing you're there to catch them.

      Cheers.

      Steve
      No more V-drums; all acoustics now.

      Comment


      • #4
        I've yet to try BFD2. But have tried EZ Drummer and Addictive Drums and really loved AD due to the combination of sample quality and awesome usability thanks to their intutive interface. But I could never get the hihat working well. Edrum Monitor helped but the transitions between slow open/close samples we abrupt, though it sounded fine on fast closes. If it had better e-drum hihat support I'd probably still ride the AD bandwagon all around town.

        I recently got Superior 2 and from an e-drum support standpoint it's plain and simple awesome. Supports an insane amount of kit pieces. And from a pure acoustic drum sound it's awesome I think. However, from a usability standpoint it's complex. It could really benefit from a separate beginner and advanced mode, in my opinion. And it comes with virtually no presets.

        Now for the good news! There's no reason you really have to pick JUST ONE! Map your triggers to different MIDI channels and run different triggers to the kit pieces in whichever VST you enjoy the most. For a while I was running AD for everything but the hihat which was mapped to S2 since the e-drum hihat kicks butt there. Of course that complicates things significantly. But it's possible.

        Comment


        • #5
          Wouldn't these be VSTi's? (instruments)

          In any case, thanks for the comparative. Although incomplete it will surely be of interest to some. Personally, I'm not having too much difficulty with S2.0. That said, I AM lazy and using Joe's template made me instantly happy. Before discovering the template, I spent some time and learned most of the features including aftertouch enveloping, and mapping pads with the learn funtion, which as others have stated, is dead simple and works like a hot damn. My biggest issue is getting a VST host that is easy to use and has the features I'm looking for. The first one I tried was Fruity Loops, and while I was able to figure it out, it was rather limited in scope, and nobody else here seemed to use it. Ever on the prowl for 'something better', I tried Ableton Live, which seemed to fit better with what I was trying to do, but I have recently discovered that it doesn't support polyphonic aftertouch (no cymbal chokes). I'll probably stick with it for now because it does everything else very well and is easy enough to use, and because I just can't seem to wrap my head around Sonar at ALL. Which is definately the least user friendly host I've seen so far.

          I too really like Addictive Drums. It would be my favorite over EZDrummer or any of the others, with the exception of Superior 2.0.
          Jack

          Sabre's Album

          Comment


          • #6
            Sabre,

            I am a total n00b to this but I have found Reaper to be very easy to use so far. You can download a full unrestricted version for free and it is only $50 if you want to register it.

            Comment


            • #7
              I own or have owned BFD1, BFD2, ezdrummer, Superior 1 and Superior 2. I have tried the demo of Addictive drums

              They are all stunning products but for me Superior 2 wins hands down...the moment I first tried the Avatar library in beta I knew it was something special. I confess I sold BFD2 within a week....and although I'm a toontrack beta tester I'm also a drum virtual instrument junkie...I just knew I wouldn't use BFD2 again.

              With Superior 2 toontrack decided to sample one fantastic drum kit in great detail rather than a number of different kits. For example the toms are sampled with different heads and with snare wires off and on. The kicks have different beaters and heads and are also sampled with snare wires off and on . The snares are recorded ringy and damped, with edge, center, rimshot , sidestick, rim only, ruff, roll, flams. There are different tools...brushes, rods and drumsticks...

              I've got a couple of weeks off work so I'll try and record some examples that demonstrate the versatility of Superior 2
              Damian Blunt
              Toontrack Quality Assurance Manager
              TD-20 RMP-12 (Snare) PD-125, 2 x PD-105, 1 x KD-120, VH-12, CY-15R, CY-14, CY-12R/C, 2 x CY-8, CY-5, MDS-12C

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, I dont get the Superior 2 comment, I have it and it's smokin'. The hat works fine with my Drumkat with no adjustment by me at all.
                Drumkat Turbo 4.5, Emulator X3, Superior 2.1, Roland Fantom XR, DTXtreme III, SPD-20 etc.......

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Relayer View Post
                  Who said anything about being fair? Just making an observation.
                  LOL. Just adding my perspective (I hope my obvious bias is acceptable).

                  Regarding the size of the S2.0 library ... I have to say ... you get a really great choice of snares and cymbals, and perhaps the demos here haven't been representative because I think a lot of people sit down and just love grooving on the default pieces. For instance, my personal favorite snare is the GMS Hasch Maple ... and I haven't even done a recording with it yet.

                  It would do well with a couple more HiHat choices, but the 3 that are available cover ground really well.

                  The snares all have great individual character. Plus, each snare was recorded using 3 close microphones, so you can choose 3 microphone levels that can really shape the sound nicely before turning to EQ or envelopes.

                  Kick drums, there ARE only 3 choices. However, they are 3 great choices and again, like the HiHats, they can cover a lot of ground. And like the Snares, each kick has 3 close microphone channels, with the ability to adjust those levels. You'd be surprised how different you can make each kick sound just by adjusting microphone levels. Not to mention they have different beater selections ... which really makes it more than 3 choices to start with.

                  Now toms, there are only 2 choices. One set is 5 and the other is 4, with different heads. More toms would be nice, however, I must say ... I DIG these toms! They are spectacular sounding, IMO. If that is not the tom sound you particularly want, then you might feel limited until you either add from the current crop of EZX kits, earlier libraries, or future S2.0 and/or EZX libraries.

                  Prior to this, when Toontrack had dfh Superior, the plethora of kit pieces was certainly a focus in one package. But, as these libraries become even more massive (more layers and sample rotation for each instrument) and take more and more time to compile (from what I understand, it is a very tedious and time consuming task .. much more involved than simply "doing a recording" of an instrument), I think something has to give, and the genre/engineer specific focus is one good answer to this.

                  | Argos | Your Cloud | Lost In Germany | Life Wasted | Identity Crisis
                  | The Xerophyte | Red Barchetta | Subdivisions or Drums Only |

                  Superior Drummer w/ Metal Foundry, dfhS samples and Platinum Samples Evil Drums.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jrcel View Post
                    Yes, I dont get the Superior 2 comment, I have it and it's smokin'. The hat works fine with my Drumkat with no adjustment by me at all.
                    I didn't say anything negative about how the hats work in S2, and I don't think anyone else did either. For all I know, they're the greatest hats in the world. Are you sure you're in the right thread?

                    Joe, your bias is not only acceptable, it's essential for a discussion like this.

                    I wear many hats in my studio so disk space is always a concern. I'm in a position of "saving myself" so-to-speak for just the right program or library. It may very well be the S2 turns out to be it. But one thing I don't need is more content that is useless to me - I've got enough of that with BFD; flams, rolls, ruffs, etc. I know you don't have to load them, but they're still there taking up space. Plus, Addictive Drums' many, many, great presets have got me spoiled. I can dial up a Motown kit, Ringo kit, Bonzo kit, all with the click of a mouse and have all the processing I need taken care of. As you said, it's so much more fun to just play rather than twiddle and tweak.

                    Cheers.

                    Steve
                    No more V-drums; all acoustics now.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Relayer View Post
                      I didn't say anything negative about how the hats work in S2, and I don't think anyone else did either. For all I know, they're the greatest hats in the world. Are you sure you're in the right thread?
                      Didn't mean to suggest you said anything about the hats, just saying.
                      Drumkat Turbo 4.5, Emulator X3, Superior 2.1, Roland Fantom XR, DTXtreme III, SPD-20 etc.......

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jrcel View Post
                        Didn't mean to suggest you said anything about the hats, just saying.
                        Well most certainly the hats appear to work very well, judging from the demos and Pim's video. I think they've proven to be the hardest things to get right in drum software . They were terrible in BFD1 and although they function well in BFD2, several of the articulations sound screwy. I use the edrum MIDI mapper with Addictive Drums and it has a special function for working with Roland hats, even if the program doesn't use CC 7.

                        Cheers.

                        Steve
                        No more V-drums; all acoustics now.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I (very quickly) recorded some sound examples of Superior 2....The toms and cymbals are the same for each example although I changed the snares, kicks, hats and articulations. I mainly just used the different ambient mics to create the different sounds....no effects were used (onboard or external). On one example I played with the envelope. The MIDI is the same for each example and is from the included Nir Z grooves. They are 320b mp3's - don't expect too much

                          The default kit

                          http://unueua.bay.livefilestore.com/...t.mp3?download

                          A dry example

                          http://unueua.bay.livefilestore.com/...t.mp3?download

                          A big roomy one

                          http://unueua.bay.livefilestore.com/...m.mp3?download

                          A damped kit (using the envelope features)

                          http://unueua.bay.livefilestore.com/...d.mp3?download

                          A dirty sound example

                          http://unueua.bay.livefilestore.com/...y.mp3?download

                          Added - example of kit with clear head toms

                          http://unueua.bay.livefilestore.com/...s.mp3?download

                          ....and a mixed version with Superior 2 effects...on a roll now

                          http://unueua.bay.livefilestore.com/...n.mp3?download


                          (sorry about the cut off cymbal at the end)
                          Last edited by grandaddy; 08-16-08, 04:17 PM.
                          Damian Blunt
                          Toontrack Quality Assurance Manager
                          TD-20 RMP-12 (Snare) PD-125, 2 x PD-105, 1 x KD-120, VH-12, CY-15R, CY-14, CY-12R/C, 2 x CY-8, CY-5, MDS-12C

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Nice, great playing too.
                            Drumkat Turbo 4.5, Emulator X3, Superior 2.1, Roland Fantom XR, DTXtreme III, SPD-20 etc.......

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by grandaddy View Post
                              I (very quickly) recorded some sound examples of Superior 2....The toms and cymbals are the same for each example although I changed the snares, kicks, hats and articulations. I mainly just used the different ambient mics to create the different sounds....no effects were used (onboard or external). On one example I played with the envelope. The MIDI is the same for each example and is from the included Nir Z grooves. They are 320b mp3's - don't expect too much
                              Thanks for taking the time to record and post these. Once again, I really like the snares and kicks, and am not so crazy about the toms - the same problem I have with BFD. I really liked the sound of the dirty kit, though - good job.

                              Cheers.

                              Steve
                              No more V-drums; all acoustics now.

                              Comment

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