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Roland latency with sd3 and macbook

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Nick74 View Post
    So there is no more time to waste for many e-drummer to leave obsolete opinions and bias and get fun with enjoying real-time high-end drum sounds and possibilities .

    First of all to stay on topic and I'm sorry for getting so deep into this I don't believe vazer should buy a new module expecting a lower latency output suitable to combat what I obviously believe is latency inherent with VST's.

    That said I'm all for fun I'm just pointing out the that VST's are not designed to be triggered at the level a module is. My experience with SD3 was it just doesn't feel that great to play, had noticeable latency, but sounded awesome. I wouldn't buy a new Roland module to use as a trigger to try and compensate for this.



    Well, just use an 'eDRUMin' trigger2midi module (which provides transition fixes (the issue: sheer pedal data trigger open-closed stages)) or use a transition software fix with your Roland module and you'll be fine.

    Cool I didn't know.

    Not true; just use a capable CPU and state-of-the-art audio drivers.

    I have a screaming fast state of the art MAC and an ApolloX. I have 64 GB of memory. My gear works fine. I make massive CPU heavy compositions and I can live with a little keyboard latency, but not noticeable e drum latency. At 32 sample buffer size forget it. At 64 there are occasional clicks and pops and it can only really run SD3. I should just live with the occasional click but I hate it. At 128 there is too much latency. You have to really dumb down the buffer size even with powerful computers and for me that's a drag. Literally. I need my Buffer size to be at least 512 or 1024 to write a broadcast quality cue. Obviously people successfully run SD3 with a laptop but I don't think I could live with the latency at a high enough buffer size to accommodate SD3. Maybe I'm all alone here.


    That's simply NOT true and belongs to obsolete opinions and bias.

    You're entitled to your opinion it just seems like a simple fact to me.
    All said I just find VST's trigger a little clunky. There is a better feel in the direct triggering of a module that has been designed to be triggered by pads. Sorry for advocating Mimic before I am biased. I have a TD-50 too and it triggers infinitely better than SD3.
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    Last edited by Howstamychi; 02-22-21, 10:46 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Nick74 View Post
      So there is no more time to waste for many e-drummer to leave obsolete opinions and bias and get fun with enjoying real-time high-end drum sounds and possibilities .




      Well, just use an 'eDRUMin' trigger2midi module (which provides transition fixes (the issue: sheer pedal data trigger open-closed stages)) or use a transition software fix with your Roland module and you'll be fine.



      Not true; just use a capable CPU and state-of-the-art audio drivers.



      That's simply NOT true and belongs to obsolete opinions and bias.



      Absolutely true!






      Thanks for answering those for me Saved me the bother although still need a little rant below

      And yes having a computer that is capable is very easy. There are pitfalls but if researched and purchased for this purpose then definitely possible. I’ve managed it for my last 3 computers. Currently run at 64 samples buffer and I can load a ridiculous amount of plugins and vst instruments. I don’t get clicks, pops, crackles or latency issues because it is built for the job.

      If you are using a computer for music then it should get as much attention as all the other equipment and not be a add on. People spend thousands on edrums monitors and keyboards and expect an off the shelf pc/laptop to do the job. It may work if you’re lucky and probably more of a chance with a Mac.

      I just don’t want others to be put off trying this with a rant of how unusable drum vsti are when clearly they are not. I’m not saying they are perfect or that work does not need to be done to get results but I certainly wouldn’t tell anyone not to bother.

      Rant over and ducking out of this one now. Time to get the tea on.
      Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Howstamychi View Post
        I have a screaming fast state of the art MAC and an ApolloX. I have 64 GB of memory. My gear works fine. I make massive CPU heavy compositions and I can live with a little keyboard latency, but not noticeable e drum latency. At 32 sample buffer size forget it. At 64 there are occasional clicks and pops and it can only really run SD3. I should just live with the occasional click but I hate it.
        There is for sure something wrong with your system/audio device/driver. I'm glitch-freely playing GGD Invasion and Modern&Massive at 3ms audio output latency and these libs are massive on CPU (I could load 5 times SD3 with demanding setup). I would exchange the audio device and see what happens (try onboard sound). Only because YOUR very machine/system works buggy does not mean anyone else's machine also does.

        BTW you didn't report the CPU specs... They are of course most important (along with the audio device/drivers).

        The Software Drumming Forum - tips & tricks + discussing drum samplers

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Howstamychi View Post
          All said I just find VST's trigger a little clunky. There is a better feel in the direct triggering of a module that has been designed to be triggered by pads. Sorry for advocating Mimic before I am biased. I have a TD-50 too and it triggers infinitely better than SD3.
          The translation is a matter of settings. With the right settings (module and software) and maybe some smart workarounds you'll get this "clunky" thing super smooth (at least with super suitable and powerful drum samplers like SD3). In addition you can have so unbelievably great 'advanced' features in software drumming! (features that wouldn't be possible in the real world (acoustic-drums) nor with Module sounds.)
          Last edited by Nick74; 02-22-21, 12:39 PM.
          The Software Drumming Forum - tips & tricks + discussing drum samplers

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          • #20
            An older post, but still relevant in its method: https://www.vdrums.com/forum/advance...perior-drummer
            Roland TD-15K, Roland CM-220 CUBE Monitors, Pearl Throne Thumper, Superior Drummer 2.x, Joe Barresi Evil Drums SDX, The Metal Foundry SDX

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            • #21
              Damn I hope this is the holy grail to relieving me of weeks of pulling my hair out.
              Originally posted by Nick74 View Post
              ...Well, just use an 'eDRUMin' trigger2midi module (which provides transition fixes (the issue: sheer pedal data trigger open-closed stages)) or ...
              and this post
              Originally posted by Nick74
              "are you ... aware of the fact that the CC-hihat in Ableton DrumRack/Sampler (“Session Drums”-packs “Club”, “Multimic”, “Studio”) works with nice crossfades (with adjustable value ranges – these CC value ranges trigger the crossfades) between the open-closed-stages? Next to the fact that CC alone does not trigger samples from different open closed stages (my requested SD3 feature) this is in a way reducing any stuttering artefacts and supports making the transitions nicely smooth (when the crossfade ranges are quite big). Regarding this feature the Ableton hihat engine is superior to SuperiorDrummer IMO…"

              Can you expand on this? My V12 hi-hat journey is now very tiresome. Maybe in another post or PM if you wish. I'm ready to buy you a beer or 20...whatever! This would save me and many others from possibly needing or even craving anything beyond Abelton. Also, similar to eDRUMin, do you know if their DSP Trigger can be used with Ableton and edrums as well?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by ErikMM View Post
                Can you expand on this? My V12 hi-hat journey is now very tiresome. Maybe in another post or PM if you wish. I'm ready to buy you a beer or 20...whatever! This would save me and many others from possibly needing or even craving anything beyond Abelton. Also, similar to eDRUMin, do you know if their DSP Trigger can be used with Ableton and edrums as well?
                There are several ways to get rid of hihat transition artifacts. What drum sampler do you use?

                DSP Trigger is a VST plugin and basically works with any capable DAW, so yes.
                The Software Drumming Forum - tips & tricks + discussing drum samplers

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Nick74 View Post

                  There are several ways to get rid of hihat transition artifacts. What drum sampler do you use?

                  DSP Trigger is a VST plugin and basically works with any capable DAW, so yes.
                  Thanks. MegaDrum 32, Roland VH12.

                  Beyond making sure the 3-5 hat samples I am using are the right ones to use in Ableton, I think using chokes between the samples based on CC is the path. I was close to getting the mechanics or right triggering sequences from open to closed with chicks and splashes too(thanks mostly to the MD module), but was having issues with silencing the tails off of some samples. Chokes with Ableton might help. I'm going try some more in Ableton, but thanks again. Until I read your post I didn't think the solution was within Ableton, but rather the tweaking of MD settings and maybe the samples I selected. It's all that and maybe more. Choosing the right curves or modifying them in MD is key too. Cymbal sounds are complex logarithmic things, not linear.

                  Being that my hope is to bypass things like SD3 and BFD et al. and use samples from Ableton packs and other libraries, it will be a chore to single out the 3-4 samples minimum every time I want a new hi-hat. That is the price I suppose. Hoping it opens up other possibilities with the hat and samples beyond real hi-hat sounds. CC seems to be like a drummer's whammy bar, or could be with Ableton.
                  Last edited by ErikMM; 02-24-21, 10:50 AM.

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                  • #24
                    I would use the AL multi samples drum packs (like "Session Drums") for acoustic drums emulation. I was referring to these kits/packs talking about crossfade transitions.
                    The Software Drumming Forum - tips & tricks + discussing drum samplers

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Nick74 View Post

                      The translation is a matter of settings. With the right settings (module and software) and maybe some smart workarounds you'll get this "clunky" thing super smooth (at least with super suitable and powerful drum samplers like SD3). In addition you can have so unbelievably great 'advanced' features in software drumming! (features that wouldn't be possible in the real world (acoustic-drums) nor with Module sounds.)
                      Nick thank you for this advice and enlightenment clearly I have had bad experiences with VSTs and I regrettably vented instead of calmly inquiring as to how folks such as yourselves achieve great results. I love the VST quality PMP module sounds but clearly there are some phenomenal VST sounds to explore.
                      Last edited by Howstamychi; 03-05-21, 10:45 AM.

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