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For lowest latency, do I need an Audio Interface for SD3 with a TD30?

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  • For lowest latency, do I need an Audio Interface for SD3 with a TD30?

    Re lowest latency, when using SD3 with my TD30, should I just use the USB-Midi output on the TD30 straight into my laptop (2015 Macbook Pro i7, 16gb ram) or would a Thunderbolt interface (e.g. Focusrite Clarett) make a significant difference?

    I've read conflicting opinions on various forums and am now more confused than when I started...

    TD30 usb, straight into Mac makes sense, but I've read that an audio interface can reduce strain (so to speak) on the laptop, helping to reduce latency.

    Thanks for any help!
    Last edited by sensei_russ; 12-11-19, 04:56 PM.

  • #2
    I only own a macair early 2014 with 4 Gig Ram, when I compared (2 years ago) the
    TD 30 connected via usb into computer/mac, headphone plugged into TD30
    with
    a Mac Air and Zoom Tac 2r Thunderbolt (which the Headphones were pluged into) connected with classic mid cable the Zoom had a noticeable better latency and had better headphone sound.

    So I clearly favour Zoom Tac 2r although the headphone out is also quite weak/low output compared to a RME AIO (PCI Express card), which is even more stable, I had to turn off all wireless activity with the mac air to get to this low latency, using more VSTs parallel like Bias/BFD/Superior/Amplitube inside a DAW, the Mac with the zoom quickly folded......
    So best more stable latency buy cheapo PC with RME AIO or even RME 9632 (used), can be up to 10 years old.

    In terms of headphone out sound quality UAD Apollo ranks above older quite ok performing RME, but you can add a separate DAC/headphone amp via optical out to improve sound and not sacrifice latency, as the RME PC card remains responsible for low latency.

    Check closed Fostex TH 610 for e-Drumming, they make much more difference than fast CPU equipped computer!

    Best headphone out I encounterd RME Adi2pro, but this is very expensive, as you need a AIO or 9632 attached to it, the adi has no midi in and has no mixer like the AIO/9632, it is notz a conventional sound interface.

    IMHO more important are better headphones like Fostex Th 610 and the AIO, makes much more impact than a better DAC like ADI2pro.

    Older Apollo Twin solo (they are good performing with thier own plugins on their dsp) did not work with my mac air at all for e-drumming (tried 2 years ago), horrible latency, did not try mojave though, some people here seem to get good results with newer macs, I kind of doubt it, but will try again, they have the same drivers for their interfaces.
    Last edited by Ribot; 12-11-19, 06:11 PM.
    Desktop PC I5 Asus, Asus P8Z77, RME AIO, RME ADI2pro, RME Digiface USB, Mac Air 2014, Zoom Tac2r, Apollo Twin MKI Solo TD30, Vh13, Drum Tec pro pads, BFD3, Henry Hirsch, Peter Erskine, Evil Drums, Superior 3.0, Decades, Cubase 10, Reaper, Ludwig 67 Kit all sizes from 22“, Ludwig Cob, 4*14, Slingerland 50s, Paiste Modern Ess, Zildjian Constantinople

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    • #3
      About a month ago I started running an RME HDSPe AIO card in my VST machine and noticed significantly better latency performance over my USB-C connected Focusrite Clarett 4Pre... That said, I never attempted to run the TD-30 as an interface, and have always used it exclusively for MIDI only. So yes, the RME PCI based cards are worth the money. BUT, you can certainly get by with lower cost solutions.

      There have been several threads on this whole topic lately so I’d recommend a reading through some of the latest posts to gather up details. Bottom line, you can get by with lower cost solutions, but premium performance comes at a premium cost. Budget drives all outcomes...
      Roland TD-50 & eDRUMin Modules | Superior Drummer 3 | Tama A2E w/ R-Drums Triggers | FIELD, ATV, & Roland Cymbals | ACD Unlimited Pedals | Tama & Gibraltar HW | RME HDSPe AIO Interface | Mackie ProFX10v3 Mixer | Simmons DA200S Monitor | V-MODA Crossfade M-100 OEMs & Westone UM Pro 50 IEMs

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      • #4
        A friend of mine has the newer babyface usb (not latest fs), he cannot get it as low (to 32 buffer 9632/Aio) with his Lenovo Thinkpads (3 and 8 years old), my cousin owns oldest Rme babyface an uses it with the same setup like my old i5 pc, less vst load and more 1-2 ms latency compared to my Aio pci express setup.
        Last edited by Ribot; 12-12-19, 02:15 AM.
        Desktop PC I5 Asus, Asus P8Z77, RME AIO, RME ADI2pro, RME Digiface USB, Mac Air 2014, Zoom Tac2r, Apollo Twin MKI Solo TD30, Vh13, Drum Tec pro pads, BFD3, Henry Hirsch, Peter Erskine, Evil Drums, Superior 3.0, Decades, Cubase 10, Reaper, Ludwig 67 Kit all sizes from 22“, Ludwig Cob, 4*14, Slingerland 50s, Paiste Modern Ess, Zildjian Constantinople

        Comment


        • #5
          Do you already have a td30? If you do just try it as you can’t lose anything and only you will know if the latency is low enough for you. I have a td30 and although I have an audio interface I have tried the using the td30. I could get the latency acceptable but not as good as my zoom interface. What I do like about the td30 is you can connect the usb and use it as a midi interface so I have a keyboard plugged in to it which then goes through to my pc. Useful as my zoom doesn’t have midi and I only need one midi in as well as the td30 midi.
          Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

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          • #6
            I concur with MKOK.

            Try using your TD-30 as an audio interface before anything else. If your computer can handle low sample/buffer rates then you should not need to purchase an external audio interface.It really depends on your computer's capabilities. Be sure to turn off your computer's WI-FI.

            I use my TD-50's audio interface at 64 sample/buffer rate with no noticeable latency through headphones. My laptop is an Acer i5, 20G RAM.
            Pearl Mimic Pro; Custom Acrylic Shells; ISM-6 Snare Conversion Kit; UFO eBridges; ATV/Roland Cymbals.

            TD-50DP => SD3; KD-9; PDX-100(x4); VH-13; Roland Cymbals.

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            • #7
              Your setup has too much latency for me, imho instantly noticeable/laggy when playing and knowing/owning/comparing with real drums, my goal is to get as close as possible to real drums.
              It is also annoying as hell to turn off internet/WiFi while using e-drums (as I have to, when using Mac air with Thunderbolts Zoom Tac2r), I play a lot (actually 6-7 years owning my Aio) to YouTube Videos, without crackles and 32 Buffer size.
              But as mentioned, try yourself.
              choosing a used Rme 9632 (often under 200 Euro) and used old pc with old pci slot (under 150 Euro) is by they way extremely cheap und fully Sufficient (in most cases faster) using Superior 3.
              better invest in Fostex Th-610.
              btw you can attach a lot of channels/outputs/inputs/favs/headphones to Rme/Aio/9632, not possible with Zoom and Uad Interfaces under 1000 Bucks, Rme is modular, best drivers (even Catalina).....and therefore cheap.

              And again (because it is misleading!) latency is not related to computer power and most computer hardware, the chosen sound interface and their driver deliver lowest latency.
              I.e. In over 10 years nothing has surpassed Rme PCI Cards!
              you can use very old pc hardware, does not make a difference latency-wise. Use old midi cable faster/lower latency.
              Last edited by Ribot; 12-12-19, 06:42 AM.
              Desktop PC I5 Asus, Asus P8Z77, RME AIO, RME ADI2pro, RME Digiface USB, Mac Air 2014, Zoom Tac2r, Apollo Twin MKI Solo TD30, Vh13, Drum Tec pro pads, BFD3, Henry Hirsch, Peter Erskine, Evil Drums, Superior 3.0, Decades, Cubase 10, Reaper, Ludwig 67 Kit all sizes from 22“, Ludwig Cob, 4*14, Slingerland 50s, Paiste Modern Ess, Zildjian Constantinople

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ribot View Post
                Your setup has too much latency for me, imho instantly noticeable/laggy when playing and knowing/owning/comparing with real drums, my goal is to get as close as possible to real drums.
                it is also annoying as hell to turn off internet/WiFi while using drums, I play a lot (actually 6-7 years owning my Aio) to YouTube Videos, without crackles and 32 Buffer size.
                But as mentioned, try yourself.
                I have no noticeable latency using headphones with my setup. I also have an acoustic kit (which I play regularly) setup right next to my TD-50 so I can compare. I also don't run other programs while using SD3. Could be the TD-50 driver, idk.
                Pearl Mimic Pro; Custom Acrylic Shells; ISM-6 Snare Conversion Kit; UFO eBridges; ATV/Roland Cymbals.

                TD-50DP => SD3; KD-9; PDX-100(x4); VH-13; Roland Cymbals.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ribot View Post
                  Your setup has too much latency for me, imho instantly noticeable/laggy when playing and knowing/owning/comparing with real drums, my goal is to get as close as possible to real drums.
                  it is also annoying as hell to turn off internet/WiFi while using e-drums (as I have to, when using Mac air with Thunderbolts Zoom Tac2r), I play a lot (actually 6-7 years owning my Aio) to YouTube Videos, without crackles and 32 Buffer size.
                  But as mentioned, try yourself.
                  choosing a used Rme 9632 (often under 200 Euro) and old pc with old pci slot is by they way extremely cheap und fully Sufficient (in most cases faster) using Superior 3.
                  better invest in Fostex Th-610.
                  How does using a PCI card compare in terms of latency to an external interface like the 2i4 in your experience?
                  Roland TD-50 Digital Pack, Mapex V shells + UFO eBridge triggers.

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                  • #10
                    I have my TD-17 KVX hooked up to my iMac via USB and use SD3 through my UAD Arrow thunderbolt 3 audio interface. Cant hear any latency at all.

                    https://www.uaudio.com/audio-interfaces/arrow.html

                    Roland TD-17 KVX - iMac 27" i9 16GB - Universal Audio Arrow audio interface via Thunderbolt 3 - Superior Drummer 3 - Komplete Ultimate 12 - Logic Pro X.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by super_freak View Post

                      I have no noticeable latency using headphones with my setup. I also have an acoustic kit (which I play regularly) setup right next to my TD-50 so I can compare. I also don't run other programs while using SD3. Could be the TD-50 driver, idk.
                      Could be, sorry, I did not try TD50 this way......will soon, mostly to check if there are less hotspots and usable dynamics than TD 30 which is a culprit, have to cut velocities inside decades/superior 3.0 and bfd to tame this behavior.

                      But given my experience with a lot of usb interface (RME are recommended! for e-drumming ok, but I notice a difference to AIO) ) I doubt that roland has surpassed RME....


                      But will try!
                      Last edited by Ribot; 12-12-19, 07:45 AM.
                      Desktop PC I5 Asus, Asus P8Z77, RME AIO, RME ADI2pro, RME Digiface USB, Mac Air 2014, Zoom Tac2r, Apollo Twin MKI Solo TD30, Vh13, Drum Tec pro pads, BFD3, Henry Hirsch, Peter Erskine, Evil Drums, Superior 3.0, Decades, Cubase 10, Reaper, Ludwig 67 Kit all sizes from 22“, Ludwig Cob, 4*14, Slingerland 50s, Paiste Modern Ess, Zildjian Constantinople

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by unsaltedmd5 View Post

                        How does using a PCI card compare in terms of latency to an external interface like the 2i4 in your experience?
                        Do not know it.

                        I am not into dissing other people´s gear, but my experience with usb interface (besides RME) in terms of low latency were horrible, wacky, contraints, a friend of mine worked for an established computer magazin, the rme people told (unofficially) him (way back) that forcing them to issue RME USB devices was a waste of time when they introduced their first usb device, to this day not!!!! on par with very old PCI interfaces of RME. Even my old terratec 24/96 worked more stable then (now RME USB is faster than Terratec).

                        Probs to Zoom Tac2r Thunderbolt, deactivating Wifi this thing is really fast with e-drums, but I do not use my e-drums mobile.....also waiting for drivers to cure flaws and better latency almost never!!!! succeed, RME AIO and Zoom right of the box worked!

                        Please notice that the Roland modul is also adding 4-5ms, other moduls even more, so, imho there is a need for lowest latency sound interfaces.

                        I do not like to play with 3.4 meter long arms.....I like snappy, percussive things, also playing guitar, a fender vibrolux 10 inch speacker reacts faster (playing funk) than a 12 inch speaker, different feel.

                        But try/evaluate yourself, I do not sell anything! As mentioned, it is not expensive at all, used RME 9632 and old pc with PCI slots, probably under 400 euro.....lucky times!

                        Perhaps even using Zoom Tac2r and trying cable/adapter for internet (turning off Wifi)....btw. did not check catalina and mojave with Zoom Thunderbolt, be aware.....
                        Last edited by Ribot; 12-12-19, 08:26 AM.
                        Desktop PC I5 Asus, Asus P8Z77, RME AIO, RME ADI2pro, RME Digiface USB, Mac Air 2014, Zoom Tac2r, Apollo Twin MKI Solo TD30, Vh13, Drum Tec pro pads, BFD3, Henry Hirsch, Peter Erskine, Evil Drums, Superior 3.0, Decades, Cubase 10, Reaper, Ludwig 67 Kit all sizes from 22“, Ludwig Cob, 4*14, Slingerland 50s, Paiste Modern Ess, Zildjian Constantinople

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Whagi View Post
                          I have my TD-17 KVX hooked up to my iMac via USB and use SD3 through my UAD Arrow thunderbolt 3 audio interface. Cant hear any latency at all.

                          https://www.uaudio.com/audio-interfaces/arrow.html
                          Interesting, Whagi mentioned this, I have now mojave installed on my mac air, latency was horrible with mit UAD Twins Solo using Mac OS Sierra, it performed also way too slow with other VST inside DAW (not hosted on their own DSP).
                          Desktop PC I5 Asus, Asus P8Z77, RME AIO, RME ADI2pro, RME Digiface USB, Mac Air 2014, Zoom Tac2r, Apollo Twin MKI Solo TD30, Vh13, Drum Tec pro pads, BFD3, Henry Hirsch, Peter Erskine, Evil Drums, Superior 3.0, Decades, Cubase 10, Reaper, Ludwig 67 Kit all sizes from 22“, Ludwig Cob, 4*14, Slingerland 50s, Paiste Modern Ess, Zildjian Constantinople

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ribot View Post

                            Interesting, Whagi mentioned this, I have now mojave installed on my mac air, latency was horrible with mit UAD Twins Solo using Mac OS Sierra, it performed also way too slow with other VST inside DAW (not hosted on their own DSP).
                            I'll take a look at my latency settings and others if you want, but I bought it, plugged it in and us it through Logic x with SD3 as a plugin and really don't notice any latency at all. im running it on a new iMac i9 with 16GB memory and I have upped the CPU cores in SD3. no idea what the latency settings are in Logic. But as far as everything goes, everything is on defaults
                            Roland TD-17 KVX - iMac 27" i9 16GB - Universal Audio Arrow audio interface via Thunderbolt 3 - Superior Drummer 3 - Komplete Ultimate 12 - Logic Pro X.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by unsaltedmd5 View Post

                              How does using a PCI card compare in terms of latency to an external interface like the 2i4 in your experience?
                              As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I recently went from a USB-C connected Focusrite Clarett 4Pre to a PCIe connected RME HDSPe AIO card. Same PC with no changes to the disk, memory, or CPU. In my case, RTL dropped 1.9ms from 5.4ms on the Focusrite Clarett to 3.5ms on the RME HDSPe AIO (measured with Oblique Audio RTL Utility). I run my rig at 48Hz with a 32 sample buffer size. SD3 sees output latency at 2.5ms and buffer latency at 0.7ms.

                              *It's also important to note that in addition to better latency performance, my rig is absolutely more stable at 48Hz / 32 samples with the RME card. Using the Clarett, I'd get an occasional pop at 32 samples - every few songs or when I was really getting into a fill or fast pattern. I would record my performances at 64 samples to compensate for this, and latency wasn't too bad, but I did feel it when tracking with a click.

                              Hope this helps...
                              Last edited by rdubu; 12-12-19, 10:05 AM.
                              Roland TD-50 & eDRUMin Modules | Superior Drummer 3 | Tama A2E w/ R-Drums Triggers | FIELD, ATV, & Roland Cymbals | ACD Unlimited Pedals | Tama & Gibraltar HW | RME HDSPe AIO Interface | Mackie ProFX10v3 Mixer | Simmons DA200S Monitor | V-MODA Crossfade M-100 OEMs & Westone UM Pro 50 IEMs

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