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  • Superior drummer 3 with td50 vs. td30

    Preface: please forgive me if this topic has been covered. I am HORRIBLE with social media and forums.

    I'm interested in roland vdrums to use ONLY as a trigger into SD3 for recording and production.
    Will SD3 capture and reproduce the details and nuances that the td50 ride/snare offer?
    Basically - is it worth the money? Will I hear the difference and a huge leap forward in sound shape or am I better off going with the td30?
    it's quite a big jump in price. I'm not sure I'm willing to pay the extra money unless the expressiveness and "human play quality" are FULLY transferred, captured and audibly displayed by superior drummer 3.

    Thank you all so so much for any insight!

  • #2
    I don’t know about the td50 but the td30 is brilliant for triggering SD3. You get positional sensing on snare and ride (ride on new sdx decades) you also get tip articulation on all the cymbals so you are not just stuck with the edge sound. Td30 and SD3 are a great match. The td50 May do a bit more but not sure it would be worth the extra.
    Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

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    • #3
      Hello mkok.
      thanks so much for the the input!!
      I've researched quite a bit and came to the conclusion that sd3 paired with the td30 is an excellent combo, probably the best
      - until the td50 came out. lol
      I'm just not sure about the benefit/cost ratio.
      Thanks again!
      cheers

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by studiosix13 View Post
        I'm just not sure about the benefit/cost ratio.
        Thanks again!
        cheers
        Definately depends on the cost. Around here the TD30 is not really that much cheaper than the TD50.

        A2E: PDP M5 Cherry Red, Drumtec Design Mesh Heads,Jobeky/ 2Box/Roland /ddt Triggersamaha Cymbals:PCY135, PCY155 Roland FD-9. TD17 and Audiofron eDrumIn Module. Triggering AD2, SD3 and SSD5.

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        • #5
          I just picked up an ex-demo TD-50DP (not played, just displayed at an expo) on the cheap, which I plan on using to trigger SD3. The inclusion of the digital snare and ride made this a much better deal for me than buying a used TD-30.

          I don't expect SD3 to pick up the all of the positional nuances of the digital ride due to the limitations of the MIDI signal and sample articulations in SD3 but in the video below it does seem to be picking up the tip/shank as different MIDI notes. I'm not sure exactly how these are distinguished from one another by the module though. Will see if I can figure it out.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkKmi9wJxv8
          Last edited by unsaltedmd5; 12-09-19, 09:55 AM.
          Roland TD-50 Digital Pack, Mapex V shells + UFO eBridge triggers.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by unsaltedmd5 View Post
            I just picked up an ex-demo TD-50DP (not played, just displayed at an expo) on the cheap, which I plan on using to trigger SD3. The inclusion of the digital snare and ride made this a much better deal for me than buying a used TD-30.

            I don't expect SD3 to pick up the all of the positional nuances of the digital ride due to the limitations of the MIDI signal and sample articulations in SD3 but in the video below it does seem to be picking up the tip/shank as different MIDI notes. I'm not sure exactly how these are distinguished from one another by the module though. Will see if I can figure it out.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkKmi9wJxv8
            If we're talking about the same part of the video, he just assigned the outer bow zone to a tip and the inner to a shank. The module cannot differentiate between tip and shank hits as far as I know. Would be pretty sick if someone, somehow, manages to make that possible in the future. Maybe they could do something with the electrostatic detection of the digital ride and design some Roland drum sticks with properly placed conductive areas. Sold for $199, of course.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Excessium View Post

              If we're talking about the same part of the video, he just assigned the outer bow zone to a tip and the inner to a shank. The module cannot differentiate between tip and shank hits as far as I know. Would be pretty sick if someone, somehow, manages to make that possible in the future. Maybe they could do something with the electrostatic detection of the digital ride and design some Roland drum sticks with properly placed conductive areas. Sold for $199, of course.
              Yeah I gave the video a proper watch and you're right. I have noticed that the ride seems to pick up shank articulations on the bow but it may just be due to striking multiple zones at once.
              Roland TD-50 Digital Pack, Mapex V shells + UFO eBridge triggers.

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              • #8
                Yeah, it appears I was wrong!
                Just stumbled across this video from Roland:


                I assume as you said since there are many piezos, maybe the ride detects the shank if it feels pressure on a longer surface versus a tip? If you can reliably get tip and shank hits (and hopefully also somehow send those signals properly to SD3) then that's a pretty big feature, IMO.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Excessium View Post
                  Yeah, it appears I was wrong!
                  Just stumbled across this video from Roland:


                  I assume as you said since there are many piezos, maybe the ride detects the shank if it feels pressure on a longer surface versus a tip? If you can reliably get tip and shank hits (and hopefully also somehow send those signals properly to SD3) then that's a pretty big feature, IMO.
                  Yeah, it's not totally clear to me how the shank/tip articulations work (although I am quite impressed by it). But from what I can find, SD3 just supports basic zone mapping as above, so I doubt it will have the same degree of articulation.
                  Roland TD-50 Digital Pack, Mapex V shells + UFO eBridge triggers.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by unsaltedmd5 View Post

                    Yeah, it's not totally clear to me how the shank/tip articulations work (although I am quite impressed by it). But from what I can find, SD3 just supports basic zone mapping as above, so I doubt it will have the same degree of articulation.
                    I'm not sure how many articulations the TD-50 has for ride, so yes, maybe SD3 has fewer. Although the latest SDX's seem to be adding more and more. In terms of triggering, do you reliably get shank/tip signals?

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                    • #11
                      Only Decades and Death & Darkness SDX packs have two different bow articulations for the ride. You can assign up to three different zones on the bow of the ride. On my current TD-50 SD3 setup with Decades I have been able to get a total of 5 different zones on the ride.
                      1. Edge Crash
                      2. Bow 1 articulation (closer to the edge)
                      3. Bow 2 articulation ( mid bow area)
                      4. Bell Tip ( just outside of bell area)
                      5. Bell Shank ( bell )
                      Then I stacked the same cymbal but only engaged the bow shank articulation and set the velocity so it will only trigger with a harder stick shank hit on the bow area. So I essential have 6 different articulations on my ride now. I am quite amazed at how well it works.
                      ATV aDrums, TD-50, aD5, Superior Drummer 3.0, Roland SPD-SX, Tama & DW Hardware.

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                      • #12
                        Chance27,
                        That's great info. Thanks.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [QUOTE=unsaltedmd5;n1216437]I don't expect SD3 to pick up the all of the positional nuances of the digital ride due to the limitations of the MIDI signal and sample articulations

                          hey there unsaltedmd5
                          Thanks for the insight on this!
                          I'm not as tech savvy as most of you here, so this may be a dumb question but:
                          Since the td50 is the most recent roland build using completely different tech than standard vdrum setups,.....
                          is it possible that toontrack will offer patches and upgrades that allow sd3 to capture what the td50 is capable of - OR - if I understand your comment, even with said upgrades we would still be limited by the number of recorded samples, layers and number of midi note assignments available to each instrument.
                          Basically, toontrack would have to create new recorded samples, packed with more info, specifically designed for the td50 ride/snare. ??
                          am I even close to understanding how this works?

                          In short, I'm ok buying the td50 if the future looks good for more compatibility but ...
                          If the limitations/ differences in tech & how they marry are set in concrete then I'd rather save money and go with a product already proven to work well with sd3.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by unsaltedmd5 View Post

                            Yeah I gave the video a proper watch and you're right. I have noticed that the ride seems to pick up shank articulations on the bow but it may just be due to striking multiple zones at once.
                            Have you figured this out? I'm testing a TD50DP and I'm seeing the same midi signal sent for any kind of hit I do (tip/shank), but the CC fluctuates and I haven't been able to understand the channels yet. I see two CC channels, not sure what the second is for. Muting stuff? From what I understand, on SD3 you can't map articulations based on CC values other than the positional sensing channel, right?
                            Hmm, found that the second CC channel is "High Resolution Velocity Prefix", which I don't think is very relevant.
                            Last edited by Excessium; 12-28-19, 10:30 AM.

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                            • #15
                              [QUOTE=studiosix13;n1217154]
                              Originally posted by unsaltedmd5 View Post
                              I don't expect SD3 to pick up the all of the positional nuances of the digital ride due to the limitations of the MIDI signal and sample articulations

                              hey there unsaltedmd5
                              Thanks for the insight on this!
                              I'm not as tech savvy as most of you here, so this may be a dumb question but:
                              Since the td50 is the most recent roland build using completely different tech than standard vdrum setups,.....
                              is it possible that toontrack will offer patches and upgrades that allow sd3 to capture what the td50 is capable of - OR - if I understand your comment, even with said upgrades we would still be limited by the number of recorded samples, layers and number of midi note assignments available to each instrument.
                              Basically, toontrack would have to create new recorded samples, packed with more info, specifically designed for the td50 ride/snare. ??
                              am I even close to understanding how this works?

                              In short, I'm ok buying the td50 if the future looks good for more compatibility but ...
                              If the limitations/ differences in tech & how they marry are set in concrete then I'd rather save money and go with a product already proven to work well with sd3.
                              "is it possible that toontrack will offer patches and upgrades that allow sd3 to capture what the td50 is capable of - OR - if I understand your comment, even with said upgrades we would still be limited by the number of recorded samples, layers and number of midi note assignments available to each instrument."
                              This would only be possible IF the TD50 actually transmits all the nuances the TD50 sound engine produces via MIDI. To the best of my knowledge, this isn't the case. No VST can replicate or respond to what it doesn't first receive via MIDI.

                              ATV aDrums & aD5, Pearl Mimic Pro & DIY, Agean R-series Silent Cymbals, Roland Handsonic HPD-20.

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