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Next step modeling software ? ..who knows

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  • Next step modeling software ? ..who knows

    maybe it's 'nothing' .. but interesting idea.. ..being able to adjust head type (coated, clear) and sizes inside a software sample
    environment .. -or does it really 'model' anything -

    | Diy Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip cymbals

  • #2
    Sounds like what Roland do with the software on there modules. May sound interesting but will it sound natural?
    Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

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    • #3
      i only saw the first clip.. until i heard the audio demo's (bottom) https://www.ikmultimedia.com/product...ex.php?p=media
      from the sound and size of it (20 gB) it seems a combination of samples and audio effects (a la T-racks/ amplitube)
      so, does it sound natural ? ..it sounds like drums and effects plug ins to me .. i think for 'natural' you still need big data ..
      | Diy Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip cymbals

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      • #4
        First impression looks and sounds promising! Although I have yet to listen critically, the price is on the high end suggesting it's legit SD3 territory. If only it was a drum module - that would've been a complete shocker!

        Of course, how it plays with edrums is going to be the real clinch for most of us.
        ♦ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ♦ MegaDRUM + Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ♦ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ♦ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring
        Community Drum Module Document
        PA Specifications (wip)

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        • #5
          VST already have individual mic per instruments + eq\compressor + fx, + mic volume, calculate it's minimal 5 mic + 3-4 eq\compressor preset on each mic + 5 volume mic, it's about 100 sounds variations of sound per instruments, still retaining purely original sound without destructing the sound and fake round robin. I did not count layering and tuning\transients\FX, that add tons of more variation on single instruments.

          What is modeling? there is only 2 possibility, either eq preset hiding with visual graphic for kick beater\head type or "universal" sample that works as base layered on background for beater\head. Depth\size are all tuning, muffling is sustain stuff. You can't revamp sound, it's all base with frequency and base sampling.

          On a single VST you can do a lots of things, could even save purchasing duplicating new sound pack, when you add processing on vst, many sound similar on a mix.
          Last edited by Chris K; 06-21-19, 11:47 AM.

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          • #6
            Lots of sound examples on this page (scroll past the songs at the bottom to get the drum solos): https://www.ikmultimedia.com/product...ex.php?p=media

            One of the IK reps on KVR said they are looking into e-drum mapping.

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            • #7
              Looks Good...fair price when placing a preorder ... $199

              best regards

              Anders / Zourman Drums
              Pearl CrystalBeat and Sonor Safari, Roland CY-14/13R/15R/12CR, RT-10x,2xBT-1,VH-11/12/13 & KD-10, Quartz, Pintech Dingbat, Triggera D14,D11, ATV AD-h14, 120MHz MegaDRUM with PS board, 2box 5&3, dd4SE, TD-9, Addictive Drums 2.1.8. All ADpaks, Microsoft Surface PRO, Macbook, Pearl Throne Thumper, Zourman HH & Ride Conv Kit www.zourman.com

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              • #8
                I don't really think this would be for actual drummers. People who enjoy this type of product likely are all ready playing a roland module which makes it sorta redundant. Im not against modeling though. I am still waiting for a company to release a module that can combine the versatility of modeling to manipulate a sample library. To a degree that is what the mimic is but not to the level roland can manipulate things. But according to the manual it does use modeling of some kind. This product IMHO is really geared for the guy who is maybe primarily a guitarist or music programmer who is trying to get versatile drum software for creating homebrew tracks. But I wouldn't consider it as a replacement for a VST for someone looking to actually trigger a program with pads. YMMV

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                • #9
                  There is no room mic, it's based on digital, you won't get the natural room mic sampled which is the key on mix\ recording.

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                  • #10
                    One thing that really stood out for me from the first embedded video, was that incredible GUI...
                    I don't have a lot of experience with this type of software, but man, that has to be by far the easiest, most intuitive, accessible user interface. Looks super easy to pick, option and craft the kit you want.
                    Hardware: TD20SX --> Roland UA-25EX --> MSI GT780DX w/ i7 2670, 16-GB of Ram, Windows 7
                    Software: Superior Drummer 2.0, Metal Foundry SDX, Metal Machine EZX, Toontrack Solo - - Sonor X1 Studio - -

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hoppy View Post
                      One thing that really stood out for me from the first embedded video, was that incredible GUI...
                      I don't have a lot of experience with this type of software, but man, that has to be by far the easiest, most intuitive, accessible user interface. Looks super easy to pick, option and craft the kit you want.
                      Listen to the audio sound demo, it sound like 10 years back to me.
                      Last edited by Chris K; 06-25-19, 05:12 PM.

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                      • #12
                        There is a blatantly a lot of compression in these demos skewing my opinion somewhat favourably, since I like good compression!

                        But I would agree, particularly with the few lesser compressed kits; the samples are shallow in comparison to the detail available in SSD5 and SD3 samples, which rightfully, should be attributed to the process of making the samples play nice with any kind of modelling algorithm - that is, if our understanding of the arguments over COSM are to believed, it makes a lot of sense to me!

                        What can't be understated though, is how balanced and smooth MODODRUM sounds imo. Perhaps attributed to this modelling algorithm, and where the payback begins. I've always said, take the decades of development Roland has put into COSM and then SUPERNATURAL and put the power of a PC behind it - and you could have something really special. Surely that is the ideal bridge between the two worlds of VSTs and modelled synthesis.

                        I say this again too, all depends on how MODODRUM wants to work with our drum modules. As OP suggests, it could be the next step.
                        ♦ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ♦ MegaDRUM + Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ♦ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ♦ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring
                        Community Drum Module Document
                        PA Specifications (wip)

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                        • #13
                          i agree with the drumsamples being flat and 'compressed' sounding .. but i have to edit what i said..
                          for drum samples to sound 'natural' you still need 'big data' (multi samples) .. now i realise Roland TD-50
                          cymbals sound very natural (and even complex..) and they are 100% modeled (cosm) so .. with cymbals it is possible..
                          | Diy Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip cymbals

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                          • #14
                            Roland cymbal are all fully sampled they recorded full hit waiting up to 1min waiting sustain each hit, on td50, in general cymbal is not issue, they stated this on td50 recording session video from Michael Blundell. The cymbal never been problem in most module unless shorts sustain crappy, it's mostly single hit playing, add modeling won't make issue since it does not require complex multilayering for them, exception hihat with faster speed and complex playing, can do machine gunning or lack of smoothness , snare, toms the worst to do, that are lacking on modeling type. Micheal Shack stated recently Roland will never do vst\ multilayering module based type it won't happens, it's more their main bread and butter with usual PR, modeling is good to create sound that have synth color and unique sound but very time consuming, average users will never get any good result whiles some others brand offer out of the box already great sound and most vst.
                            Last edited by Chris K; 06-26-19, 09:59 PM.

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                            • #15
                              'fully sampled' ? ok, maybe this is different in a cosm environment.. maybe it's just snapshots of attack, sustain, decay part.. in any case, it's not the same "full"
                              sampling of a Superior drummer ride cymbal of 900-1000 mB ... i don't own a td-50 but on a tdw-20 for a cosm sample we are talking 'kilobytes' of data ..
                              i don't know how big the audio part of cymbal samples is on a TD50.. ..but i would like to know how 'big' a ride sample is in comparison to a vst.. (just curious)
                              also, is velocity on a cosm cymbal a different sample (multisamples) or just same sample at a lower/ higher volume.. with some changing EQ algorhithm..
                              or sample start point modulation (by velocity)
                              | Diy Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip cymbals

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