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  • SD3 Presets for TD-50

    Hello,
    Been struggling to learn edrums, TD-50, Cubase, Groove Agent 4, EZD2 and now Superior Drummer 3. Spent a day and night downloading and a day trying to get my cymbals to choke, hats to work and setting up the snare and ride properly. Been reading the manual, posts and watching YouTube but I can't get it to work yet. I'm using VH-13 hats with an offset of -12. I'm trying to make a heavy rock/metal kit using the SD3 pearl kit. Is anyone will to share their setups for VH-13 hats, a CY-14C two-zone cymbal with choking, the 3 zone snare and ride?

    I would REALLY, REALLY REALLY appreciate it!!
    TD-50, KD-140, CY-18DR, CY-12R/C, CY-14C (2), CY-14C, PD-140DS, PDX-100 (2), PD-128 (2), DW5000 Accel Dble Kick, Gibralter Oversized Motorcycle Seat w/Backrest, DW PDP PGHH882, Tama Roadpro Snare Stand, Cubase 10 Pro, Steinberg UR44, Groove Agent 4, EZDrummer 2, Superior Drummer 3

  • #2
    Originally posted by ohnow View Post
    Hello,
    Been struggling to learn edrums, TD-50, Cubase, Groove Agent 4, EZD2 and now Superior Drummer 3. Spent a day and night downloading and a day trying to get my cymbals to choke, hats to work and setting up the snare and ride properly. Been reading the manual, posts and watching YouTube but I can't get it to work yet. I'm using VH-13 hats with an offset of -12. I'm trying to make a heavy rock/metal kit using the SD3 pearl kit. Is anyone will to share their setups for VH-13 hats, a CY-14C two-zone cymbal with choking, the 3 zone snare and ride?

    I would REALLY, REALLY REALLY appreciate it!!
    I'm sure you're frustrated, especially after the EZD2 experience and the decision to spring for SD3, but let me assure you that you will get this sorted out.

    Let's start really small: what exactly are the problems that you are having? I see that you can't get the cymbals to choke, but what is the issue with the hats, snare, and ride? Are there any mapping issues, where, for instance, some instruments are triggering the wrong sounds while others don't seem to trigger anything?

    Staying small, have you selected the TD50 preset under the MIDI/edrums menu in SD3? Because that should solve any mapping issues you might have, leaving you with only minor tweaks (e.g., hi-hat transition points) to make as you see fit.

    If you're running SD3 in Cubase, I might advise you to open SD3 standalone for a while so as to cut out that variable. I'm not totally sure about MIDI implementation/translation in that particular DAW, but every now and again folks do run into trouble on the DAW side, so let's avoid that possibility for the moment.

    Finally, if everything is mapped properly and this is instead about, say, the translation of your strokes in SD3 (e.g., soft and hard strokes triggering the same velocity of sample), then we'll need to pull back further and make sure basic things like module calibration are squared away.

    But start with my basic inquiries above, and let's go from there.
    Last edited by TheStewards; 04-19-19, 11:41 PM.
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    • #3
      I use Cubase and it will have zero impact on how SD3 plays and mapping but I would also use standalone as it loads quicker and your straight into it. To get my vh12 hi hat working I had to adjust a little bit in the module as well so I wasnít pressing so hard to get the tight closed sound. The pearl was my first go to kit as I actually have the pearl kit for acoustic kit. I know use the premiere kit mainly. What I donít know the answers to is the ride and snare of the td50. What you can do is record the td50 midi and note down the note numbers played for the different components.

      I ĎI used the td30 preset as a starter which gave me cymbal chokes ps on my snare and ride and the hi hat reasonably close. What it didnít give me was my toms in the right position so I had to remap those. I eventually remapped all the toms and rims and the cymbals. This was due to how I had the 4 aux inputs set. It also didnít give me tip on the cymbals so I had to map these myself. Getting tip and edge on the cymbals is a must for me as just wacking them is not all I do. This is definitely where ssd drums misses out. Tip on cymbals is essential for my playing. By the way if you get the mute working it is brilliant and not just a cut off. It uses a mute sample so sounds realistic.

      As TheStewards says you may have to ask one simple question at a time. SD3 is really a big piece of software with multiple ways of doing things. One example is to always use the edrum settings for mapping. I didnít do this at first so that is one of the reasons I had to clear out and start again. The other problem I have is I forget how I made the settings since it was a while ago so I have to re-learn if I need to change something again.
      Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

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      • #4
        Thank you both for your responses.

        TheStewards - I agree about starting small. I did start with the Roland TD50 preset in the edrums MIDI area. Like MKOK, my toms didn't line up but that was an easy fix. Also, my cymbals didn't line up which was also an easy fix. BTW, my TD50 alone plays the chokes and hats properly. For chokes, I tried adjusting the envelope offset and mute trail triggers as other posts mentioned. To start small, my cymbal one is the 17" Paiste 2002. My physical Roland cymbal is a CY-14C with two zones and choke capability.

        MKOK - I too tried to adjust my module offset. When I set the offset it was at -12 to play natural on the TD50. I have to adjust it to about -25 to play "mostly" right in SD3. But, it seems the first hit, maybe from putting my foot on the pedal and pressing it down, it plays an open note. In the MIDI edrums, hi hat control section, I've had to put the dots almost all to the bottom to also make it sound mostly right.

        The snare and ride may be ok, so they can wait to be looked into. Hopefully this is enough to at least resolve the cymbal chokes. Thanks again!
        TD-50, KD-140, CY-18DR, CY-12R/C, CY-14C (2), CY-14C, PD-140DS, PDX-100 (2), PD-128 (2), DW5000 Accel Dble Kick, Gibralter Oversized Motorcycle Seat w/Backrest, DW PDP PGHH882, Tama Roadpro Snare Stand, Cubase 10 Pro, Steinberg UR44, Groove Agent 4, EZDrummer 2, Superior Drummer 3

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        • #5
          Wish I could help you with the td50 stuff. Can you copy a cymbal setting that works to your cy-14? SD3 doesnít know what type of cymbal you have. It reacts to what messages it receives. I have the cy14 ride and it does choke fine in SD3. I tried loads of settings with the hi hat and then went to the default and found I liked that. Iíve had to adjust my playing a bit to match it. Out of the SD3 hi hats the Paiste sound edge is the hardest to control right. What I do is record my drum parts and then edit the control data for the hi hat. Itís mostly ok but some bits donít sound right. Have you got the 3 zones working on the snare with ps yet? If you get that working the realism when playing is great.
          Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for the reply MKOK,
            Can you copy a cymbal setting that works to your cy-14? I'm not sure what you mean? - I have a CY-15R and CY-12R too. The CY-14C has a MIDI note for the bell/bow and one for the edge. It has a physical choke trigger but I've never seen a MIDI note in the TD50 for mute hits. There is one setting to turn chokes on/off in MIDI setup. In SD3, I see MIDI notes for cymbal hits. I had a problem in Cubase where the choke didn't work and my recorded hat swishes would only play as an open hit. I learned I had to have the recording track on 10 in Cubase for the chokes to work. I learned I had to make sure the aftertouch was on for the hat swishes to work. I have SD3 on channel 10 and I've tried every option I can think for aftertouch, note on and both off in SD3 but still no choke. On your SD3 CY-14 setup, do you use only two MIDI notes? Do you have positional sensoring off? Can you send a screen shot of your settings of the CY-14 when you click on the cymbal on the home page showing the drums?

            I tried loads of settings with the hi hat and then went to the default and found I liked that. - I saw your previous post about this but I couldn't find a "default" so I wasn't sure what you meant? Can you tell me the offset in your TD-30 and send a screen shot of the edrum/MIDI Hi-Hat Pedal Control settings showing where you have your dots for the "Response"?

            Have you got the 3 zones working on the snare with ps yet? If you get that working the realism when playing is great. - I'm not sure. My ear tells me it sounds realistic but I thought I was supposed to be able to see the 3 zones in SD3 and I would be able to go from edge to center and see the physical points where SD3 was changing and in the TD-50, there's a screen to see where it changes. So I thought I could visually line them up in the programs? I saw a guy do that in a video, but I didn't see the 3 zones in SD3. I didn't spend much time on it so maybe I just missed it.

            TD-50, KD-140, CY-18DR, CY-12R/C, CY-14C (2), CY-14C, PD-140DS, PDX-100 (2), PD-128 (2), DW5000 Accel Dble Kick, Gibralter Oversized Motorcycle Seat w/Backrest, DW PDP PGHH882, Tama Roadpro Snare Stand, Cubase 10 Pro, Steinberg UR44, Groove Agent 4, EZDrummer 2, Superior Drummer 3

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            • #7
              MKOK,
              AH-HA! I changed from MIDI channel 10 to all channels and muting works! I don't get it because Roland uses channel 10 as default and I don't see an option to change the channel for choking. At least one thing is working!
              TD-50, KD-140, CY-18DR, CY-12R/C, CY-14C (2), CY-14C, PD-140DS, PDX-100 (2), PD-128 (2), DW5000 Accel Dble Kick, Gibralter Oversized Motorcycle Seat w/Backrest, DW PDP PGHH882, Tama Roadpro Snare Stand, Cubase 10 Pro, Steinberg UR44, Groove Agent 4, EZDrummer 2, Superior Drummer 3

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              • #8
                What does "Cymbal 2 Bow Tip (Not Loaded)" mean?
                TD-50, KD-140, CY-18DR, CY-12R/C, CY-14C (2), CY-14C, PD-140DS, PDX-100 (2), PD-128 (2), DW5000 Accel Dble Kick, Gibralter Oversized Motorcycle Seat w/Backrest, DW PDP PGHH882, Tama Roadpro Snare Stand, Cubase 10 Pro, Steinberg UR44, Groove Agent 4, EZDrummer 2, Superior Drummer 3

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                • #9
                  On the main screen you should see a drop down for articulation for the selected instrument. Often only a few are loaded by default but you can select what you want.

                  For snare PS you'll also want to make sure mid center is loaded.
                  ATV aDrums, ATV aD5, eDRUMin, Presonus Quantum 2, SD3

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                  • #10
                    FYI - Mike Luke has a great videos on YouTube that covers setting up the HH and snare/ride PS.



                    Last edited by molson; 04-20-19, 02:40 PM.
                    ATV aDrums, ATV aD5, eDRUMin, Presonus Quantum 2, SD3

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                    • #11
                      Thanks molson,
                      That was the video I had tried to follow. I feel like I'm following his steps, but of course I'm human so maybe I'm missing something. He's using a TD30 with VH11's and I'm using the TD50 with VH13's. I noticed his offset was only -1 where mine was -12. His sensitivity was 9 and mine is about 4-5 (I hit pretty hard but I'm trying to teach myself to hit softer). Since his offset was only -1, his fully open hat was 1 whereas mine is 58. His closed foot was about 126-127 and mine is about 87. If I wanted to press further, to normally engage the pressure sensor on the TD50 module hats, to hear the really tight bell/bow sound, I would press to 110-127. It seems like if I find the max open and closed points, I should just play around with the remaining dots in SD3, but I'm probably missing something. There are three questions I haven't found answers to that might contribute:

                      1) After setting up the SD3 edrum/MIDI Hat Response dots, I went back to the drumset screen and noticed it also had a box showing HH CC Edit, which also showing dots to be adjusted. The strange thing was, the dots were in different spots than in the edrum/MIDI screen. I made sure I had loaded my user edrum/MIDI settings and user drumset. I believe the hats sounded differently depending on playing them in the drumset screen versus the edrum/MIDI screen. I'm trying to keep them the same now. Does anyone know anything about this?

                      2)I can't find examples of MIDI notes people assigned to their VH11 or VH13 notes. There are 5 notes: open bell, open edge, closed bell, closed edge and pedal. In SD3, there are more options for the Paiste 15" 2002 Extra Heavy Hats. For example, there is a Hi Hat Closed Tip and tight tip. There's Edge Trigger, Closed Edge, and Tight Edge. I'm not sure which combination to use so I've tried playing with that too.

                      3)Roland uses CC4 for the pedal. I'm not sure how the TD50 triggers the pedal pressure sensor that makes the bell super tight like a real hat, or if SD3 can handle that.

                      I'm still experimenting reading the manual and researching.
                      TD-50, KD-140, CY-18DR, CY-12R/C, CY-14C (2), CY-14C, PD-140DS, PDX-100 (2), PD-128 (2), DW5000 Accel Dble Kick, Gibralter Oversized Motorcycle Seat w/Backrest, DW PDP PGHH882, Tama Roadpro Snare Stand, Cubase 10 Pro, Steinberg UR44, Groove Agent 4, EZDrummer 2, Superior Drummer 3

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I can see this is driving you mad! I had that problem when creating macros which are quite useful by the way. So ps on snare should be easy to hear without looking at anything. Hit the snare in the middle then the edge and you should get a different sample which sounds more ringing like the edge of a snare does. What SD3 allows you to do is have three zones. There are videos on this. The settings are in the edrum settings. Iím not sure I remember how to do this myself. What is worth doing every time you change something in the edrum settings is to save as a preset. So I used the td30 preset and I call my presets td30 mk1 mk2 and so on. I delete earlier ones when I get one Iím happy with.

                        So hi hat. Now I never thought but I chose the td30 preset but use a vh12. I would say SD3 has no idea the difference between hi hats. That is all dealt with on the module. The only difference is the vh11 has to be changed to give it a full range to 127.

                        So what I mean by default is hit the reset button in SD3 hi hat calibration. My offset on my td30 for a vh12 (not a lot different to a vh13) is -56. I havenít touched anything to do with notes on the hi hat. Not all articulations can be used if the module doesnít send unique notes but edge and tip works for the hi hat. I havenít tried to get bell but may be possible.

                        Other things that that can be done is velocity switching by stacking and setting what velocity a sample should play. I tried it on the toms so a soft hit played a rim click and a hard hit a rim shot. Have you managed to get tip on your cymbals? This gives a ride type sound when you hit the top of a cymbal and a crash when you hit the edge.

                        Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi MKOK,
                          I've played with the 3 zone snare now and it's working like it should. Once I actually play for a while, I'll probably adjust it a bit. I'm!! using the 8 x 14 Ludwig Coliseum snare and I ABSOLUTELY love it!!! I especially love the rimshots. The center sounds just like Alice in Chains No Excuses. I've wanted that sound forever It would be interesting to know what kind of snare he used for that.

                          Wow! That's a lot of offset for your VH12. Is that after it's calibrated on the TD30, or after you tweaked it for SD3?

                          I hear a tip on the 17" Paste 2002 Crash using the Cymbal 1 Bell Tip. I hear a slight bell on the 20" Paiste 2002 Medium Crash Ride. On the other cymbals I tried the tip and bell settings but the tip strikes were not as distinct as the TD50 cymbals. Do you know if there's a way to use the SD3 program, and kit I'm creating, but just use the TD50 for hats and cymbals? I might do that for recording, but I wish I could do it for playing live. It could eliminate the whole hat mess!

                          I wondered if maybe I need to play with the velocity curve in SD3 for the hats. I haven't got there yet. I've put in a ticket with Toontrack asking why the hat MIDI points are different from the drum set page to the MIDI settings page. I can't believe how difficult they've been to setup. Once I get them right, I'll not only save a preset, but find where presets are kept and make a backup, screenshots of my settings and write down all my values!!
                          TD-50, KD-140, CY-18DR, CY-12R/C, CY-14C (2), CY-14C, PD-140DS, PDX-100 (2), PD-128 (2), DW5000 Accel Dble Kick, Gibralter Oversized Motorcycle Seat w/Backrest, DW PDP PGHH882, Tama Roadpro Snare Stand, Cubase 10 Pro, Steinberg UR44, Groove Agent 4, EZDrummer 2, Superior Drummer 3

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                          • #14
                            Ohnow, I hope youííll share once you get the hi hats sorted out. I just bought a td50 and will get sd3 in a few weeks.

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                            • #15
                              Bahstan,
                              I just came to post my resolution and saw your post


                              Anyone Else Who Needs a Solution:
                              I decided to start fresh from scratch. It worked! I think I'll need to tweak the Open 5 & Open 4 dot a little more but it's mostly good (for me). I think my issue was manually assigning SD3 samples to Roland notes instead of leaving the Roland preset values. You'll see below how the MIDI mapping is. I thought SD3's samples called Hi-Hat Shaft Trigger and Hi-Hat Edge Trigger were a kind of generic setting for kits not as advanced as the TD-50. Looks like this is how they handle the TD-50. Thank you to everyone who helped. I truly hope this will save others the couple of days it cost me to figure out. Enjoy. . .

                              Roland TD-50, VH13 Hi-Hats, SD3 MIDI Settings for Paiste 15Ē 2002 Heavy Hi-Hats

                              *These are my values and each person will have their own depending on their playing style and how the hats feel. At least this can be a starting point to start playing a new and powerful tool!


                              Roland Module Hat Settings:
                              Hi-Hat Sensitivity = 6.5 Calibration Offset = -12 Fully Opened = 52 Closed = 79 Completely Closed = 127
                              Foot Splash Sens = 0 Noise Cancel = 1

                              Superior Drummer 3 (SD3) Settings:

                              Under Settings -- edrums/MIDI:

                              Choose: Use Preset Ė Roland TD50. This will assign MIDI notes this way:
                              Roland Note Number Roland Description SD3 Note Number SD3 Description
                              46 Hi-Hat Open (Bow) 8 Hi-Hat Shaft Trigger
                              26 Hi-Hat Open (Edge) 7 Hi-Hat Edge Trigger
                              42 Hi-Hat Closed (Bow) 8 Hi-Hat Shaft Trigger
                              22 Hi-Hat Closed (Edge) 7 Hi-Hat Edge Trigger
                              44 Hi-Hat Pedal 21 Hi-Hat Close Pedal
                              23 N/A 23 Hi-Hat Open Pedal
                              MIDI CC 1 and 4 from SD3 is converted to 4 for Roland

                              Under Settings -- edrums/MIDI Ė Hi-Hat and Snare CC Ė Hi Hat Pedal Control:
                              Perform Calibration (My results below):

                              Fully Opened = 50 Closed Tight = 94

                              Under Settings edrums/MIDI Ė Hi-Hat and Snare CC Ė Response Ė Dot Values (My results below):

                              *Note the vertical line with the dots changes values from 0-127 to the newly calibrated values of 50-94.
                              Open 5 = 56, Open 4 = 65, Open 3 =69, Open 2 = 73, Open 1 =77, Closed = 84, Tight = 93

                              *Note the above dot values are different than the dot values on the Home Page showing the drum set when you look in the MIDI box called "Hi-Hat CC Edit". I've sent a support request to Toontrack about this. I'll post that finding in this thread too.

                              Save this as a new User Preset! I would suggest copying this text, pasting it to a Word document, enter your own values and save it somewhere. After I finally figured this out, and had previously created a User Preset, I went to save and sure enough, it "Could Not Write to Disk, if this persists, contact Toontrack". Thankfully I could Save As a new User Preset but I typed this out just in case it really doesn't save, or if I need to reinstall SD3 for some reason.

                              Once I find where User Presets are saved, I will be backing those up to another location for MIDI settings and Drum Sets.

                              On a personal note, I documented this to pay forward, to others, the help I've received from others. Usually that's enough satisfaction. Recently, I've had to quit my job for a second time to try to file for disability help. From scoliosis, three back surgeries, nerve damage and heavy medications, I cannot work a job where the employer will not know "if" I can make it to work each day, what time I can be there or how long I could stay. Even consulting out of my house I had to quit. I'm trying to find other ways for income as I change my lifestyle and deal with these health issues, which take enough hours to almost be a full time job. If you feel what I've done has provided value to you, and you would like to donate something, you can. Just message me for the Paypal address. If not, no worries at all. I'm seriously glad to help!

                              Good Luck!


                              TD-50, KD-140, CY-18DR, CY-12R/C, CY-14C (2), CY-14C, PD-140DS, PDX-100 (2), PD-128 (2), DW5000 Accel Dble Kick, Gibralter Oversized Motorcycle Seat w/Backrest, DW PDP PGHH882, Tama Roadpro Snare Stand, Cubase 10 Pro, Steinberg UR44, Groove Agent 4, EZDrummer 2, Superior Drummer 3

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